Big Wide Receivers

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's extreme. There are plenty of taller wide receivers that aren't lightning quick and still are very effective. Open even when they aren't. Julio Jones is 1 in 1M.

Contested catches are crucial at the NFL level. Pettis still hasn't made a contested catch but fortunately for him he won't have to make many at the X thanks to Kyle being a mastermind play caller.

We all know Kyle's mentality when it comes to his wide receivers and guards. At least now, he's evolving some and drafted a Garcon-like receiver with that kind of punishing talent at the Z and drafted a physical mismatch in Hurd as a major chess piece.

I don't understand the narrative. Fans have been saying we don't have that physical presence at WR all these years. The little guys proved they can't stay healthy, can't get open against physical press and are best between the 20's uncontested.

Kyle recognizes that and drafts three physical receivers (Deebo, Hurd and Smith) and the narrative is we still don't need size/physicality --- Kyle has a type? LOL

Dude, we run a WCO and that's all based off timing. You NEED guys that can run routes and get separation. Something guys like Taylor and Pettis are really f**king good at.

You don't have to be a mountain of a WR to be good at contested catches either. Q and Hopkins are some of the best and are 6-1.

What is Kyle's mentality towards WRs? Because I think people have made up their own ideas on what he wants and it's simply not true.

He doesn't care if your 5-8 or 6-5, he just doesn't want you to be a slow stiff WR that can't run routes. Period.

If you want kyle to draft big WRs that can't run routes don't hold your breath...your not gonna see guys like treadwill/white/doctson on shanahan teams. IF you're big and fluid (like Hurd) then you got a chance. Guys like DK never had a shot because they don't fit the system.

The whole narrative that "little" guys get hurt is just dumb. I can give you a long list of big WRs that are always hurt just as easy. Our two biggest WRs (Matthews/Hurd) probably have some of the longest injury history of all of our WRs.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on May 2, 2019 at 8:55 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

Pettis wasn't passive in college....this yr he alligator armed a couple, I'll say that. Not every WR needs to be a run in the middle of the field and get my head clipped off guy though. I wouldn't call Goodwin passive either. Dude has been concussed because he got the snot knocked out of him NOT because he was running out of bounds.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

A bigger WR also has a larger target area to hit which can cause injuries. See Gronkowski, Rob.

Players get hurt in the NFL because it's a physical league. I konw you want this narrative that it's some front office issue the 9ers have with injuried players but the reality is it doesn't matter who we sign they are one bad hit away from injury. EVERY GUY.
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

A bigger WR also has a larger target area to hit which can cause injuries. See Gronkowski, Rob.

Players get hurt in the NFL because it's a physical league. I konw you want this narrative that it's some front office issue the 9ers have with injuried players but the reality is it doesn't matter who we sign they are one bad hit away from injury. EVERY GUY.

in other words we or kyle and lynch will always have a built in excuse for poor play and underachieving. if yu listen to some injuries were the only reason we picked number two. wrong. the secondary was crap before injuries. the poor tackling on defense was there no matter who played. pass protection was horrid no matter who played on the line or who the qb was.. our problem. we hope and wish players who are always hurt or underachieve will finally get healthy
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

Pettis wasn't passive in college....this yr he alligator armed a couple, I'll say that. Not every WR needs to be a run in the middle of the field and get my head clipped off guy though. I wouldn't call Goodwin passive either. Dude has been concussed because he got the snot knocked out of him NOT because he was running out of bounds.

I'm just talking about the Z. For the Z you do need physicality because of the slants (Deboo is a monster), inside routes, high-pointing on deep posts, 9's, back-shoulders and esp. blocking in the run game.
[ Edited by NCommand on May 2, 2019 at 9:32 AM ]
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

A bigger WR also has a larger target area to hit which can cause injuries. See Gronkowski, Rob.

Players get hurt in the NFL because it's a physical league. I konw you want this narrative that it's some front office issue the 9ers have with injuried players but the reality is it doesn't matter who we sign they are one bad hit away from injury. EVERY GUY.

And a bigger catch radius helps your QB too...more trust to throw it up there, less accuracy needed under duress, etc...save your QB from getting hit so often and having to have pin point accuracy to smaller guys and perfect timing in tight windows (see JG's first 3 games last year).

But your point is valid...more mass to hit. Good thing it's 2019 and you can't touch receivers anymore.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo, chronic hamstrings and ankle injury and Hurd, shoulder, MCL and concussions.

LOL, this FO. SMH.

No denying Deebo and Hurd play with an ass-kicking mentality though compared to Pettis and Goodwin though. Those are passive players IMHO. Taylor has a tough mentality though too.

Pettis wasn't passive in college....this yr he alligator armed a couple, I'll say that. Not every WR needs to be a run in the middle of the field and get my head clipped off guy though. I wouldn't call Goodwin passive either. Dude has been concussed because he got the snot knocked out of him NOT because he was running out of bounds.

Pettis wasn't passive in college because he was always wide open and rarely contested. NFL proved my concern thus far. Everything is contested at the NFL level unless you play in Kyle's offense. Goodwin got killed because he ran a slant or across the middle...something Garcon thrived on.
  • Kolohe
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Honestly would've rather had Andy Isabella over Jalen Hurd. Taylor Gabriel would've been a fun one to add from free agency with Deebo.
  • thl408
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/evaluating-goal-go-strategy-expected-points
Dating to 2016, the fade (combining both traditional and back-shoulder varieties) is the second-most-targeted route type in goal-to-go situations. However, EPA suggests that this is one of the most inefficient throws a quarterback can make in these situations.

Very interesting stuff here. Thanks for linking. For a play with such a poor conversion rate near the end zone, the Fade route sure gets targeted a lot by QBs.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Pettis wasn't passive in college because he was always wide open and rarely contested. NFL proved my concern thus far. Everything is contested at the NFL level unless you play in Kyle's offense. Goodwin got killed because he ran a slant or across the middle...something Garcon thrived on.

You don't have to search very hard to find clips of Pettis making contested catches in college. His elite route running helps him not have to make contested catches as well...that's a good thing. If you're a QB would you want to throw it to a open wr or someone who's big and covered?

And yes I'm sure garcon would have gotten right up after this hit



Overall I'm very happy with the group of WRs we have....I totally disagree that people think kyle is changing how he views WRs because he draft Hurd. Nonsense
[ Edited by NYniner85 on May 2, 2019 at 9:58 AM ]

Originally posted by thl408:
Dating to 2016, the fade (combining both traditional and back-shoulder varieties) is the second-most-targeted route type in goal-to-go situations. However, EPA suggests that this is one of the most inefficient throws a quarterback can make in these situations.

Very interesting stuff here. Thanks for linking. For a play with such a poor conversion rate near the end zone, the Fade route sure gets targeted a lot by QBs.


Lot of fades that are run are back shoulder or win at line then get to back pylon. Antonio Brown kills at that. The throw it up to the big guy play is, quite frankly, lazy coaching and far less utilized. Not to mention completely inefficient.

Why anyone would advocate Kyle doing more of what is inarguably statistically inefficient shows a complete lack of understanding of the game.
Originally posted by NCommand:
And a bigger catch radius helps your QB too...more trust to throw it up there, less accuracy needed under duress, etc...save your QB from getting hit so often and having to have pin point accuracy to smaller guys and perfect timing in tight windows (see JG's first 3 games last year).

But your point is valid...more mass to hit. Good thing it's 2019 and you can't touch receivers anymore.

Throwing it up to any player is an inefficenet move to make. Shouldnt be drafting guys because they can do that. Priority should be can they win with their route running so that isnt necessary.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on May 2, 2019 at 10:28 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
No way anyone is shorter than our 3 staters in Pettis 6'1", Taylor 5'9" and Deebo 5'11". But that's OK as we get our length with the TE and OW group.

outside of our division Cleveland has shorter with Beckham and Landry both being 5'11".
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
And a bigger catch radius helps your QB too...more trust to throw it up there, less accuracy needed under duress, etc...save your QB from getting hit so often and having to have pin point accuracy to smaller guys and perfect timing in tight windows (see JG's first 3 games last year).

But your point is valid...more mass to hit. Good thing it's 2019 and you can't touch receivers anymore.

Throwing it up to any player is an inefficenet move to make. Shouldnt be drafting guys because they can do that. Priority should be can they win with their route running so that isnt necessary.

Yet every QB does it under duress. Wilson actually has a whole offense built around that principle which is why they drafted Metcalf. You're making the assumption that a high pointing big body catching rapid receiver can't run crisp routes also.

Up until now, we've had a slot so speed or short area quickness crisp route runners who struggle greatly with contested balls and high pointing/boxing out and JG certainly didn't have confidence in just throwing it up there even under duress.

Kyle tried to fix that this off season. Clearly...including the toughness mentality.
  • thl408
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While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.
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