Big Wide Receivers

Originally posted by NYniner85:

You don't have to search very hard to find clips of Pettis making contested catches in college. His elite route running helps him not have to make contested catches as well...that's a good thing. If you're a QB would you want to throw it to a open wr or someone who's big and covered?

And yes I'm sure garcon would have gotten right up after this hit



Overall I'm very happy with the group of WRs we have....I totally disagree that people think kyle is changing how he views WRs because he draft Hurd. Nonsense

You're right, Garcon would have lowered his head and killed the DB and then gotten his own 15 yard penalty. LOL.

And you know what I'm saying. Who would you run slants inside most with. Goodwin/Pettis or Garcon/Deebo? Different skill sets and different mentalities.

I'm happy with our unit...a lot. I'm most happy that Kyle saw a weakness and addressed it. He's kind of rigid in some aspects so this is a great sign of him evolving IMHO.

My answer to your Pettis question is both. I want a guy who can get open AND be able to be box out and high point and make any contested catch.

Up until this off season, we clearly, have not had the latter.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yet every QB does it under duress. Wilson actually has a whole offense built around that principle which is why they drafted Metcalf. You're making the assumption that a high pointing big body catching rapid receiver can't run crisp routes also.

Up until now, we've had a slot so speed or short area quickness crisp route runners who struggle greatly with contested balls and high pointing/boxing out and JG certainly didn't have confidence in just throwing it up there even under duress.

Kyle tried to fix that this off season. Clearly...including the toughness mentality.

nah I think you're assuming we're thinking that...like I said and will keep saying most "bigger" WRs have issues with running crisp routes, it's body mechanics. When you can find a Jones or AJ Green it's a big deal because they can make those same routes as smaller dudes BUT they're 6-4 220 and run 4.4s. That's why those dudes get drafted top 10.

Kyle has always wanted a tough WRs...Gracon was our first FA. Deebo replaces him.

Jimmy G in NE was never throwing it up and hoping for contested catches either.

I'm assuming none of you BIG WR lovers wouldn't want this kid next yr...he's only 6-1 192

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yet every QB does it under duress. Wilson actually has a whole offense built around that principle which is why they drafted Metcalf. You're making the assumption that a high pointing big body catching rapid receiver can't run crisp routes also.

Up until now, we've had a slot so speed or short area quickness crisp route runners who struggle greatly with contested balls and high pointing/boxing out and JG certainly didn't have confidence in just throwing it up there even under duress.

Kyle tried to fix that this off season. Clearly...including the toughness mentality.

The seahawks passing offense is massively inefficient. We shouldnt try to duplicate anything they do in the pass game.

I am making no assumptions. Of course a big guy can run routes. What I'm saying is great route running is paramount. Having guys who can high point a ball is only worthwhile if the rest of their game is great (or can be with work)

Vernon was plenty big. Dude couldnt high point a damn thing or move laterally. Why his overall career here underwhelmed.

everyone relax...we have Shawn Poindexter

Originally posted by thl408:

While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.

As the numbers show that same player would be far more useful on a slant. Box out with the big body

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yet every QB does it under duress. Wilson actually has a whole offense built around that principle which is why they drafted Metcalf. You're making the assumption that a high pointing big body catching rapid receiver can't run crisp routes also.

Up until now, we've had a slot so speed or short area quickness crisp route runners who struggle greatly with contested balls and high pointing/boxing out and JG certainly didn't have confidence in just throwing it up there even under duress.

Kyle tried to fix that this off season. Clearly...including the toughness mentality.

nah I think you're assuming we're thinking that...like I said and will keep saying most "bigger" WRs have issues with running crisp routes, it's body mechanics. When you can find a Jones or AJ Green it's a big deal because they can make those same routes as smaller dudes BUT they're 6-4 220 and run 4.4s. That's why those dudes get drafted top 10.

Kyle has always wanted a tough WRs...Gracon was our first FA. Deebo replaces him.

Jimmy G in NE was never throwing it up and hoping for contested catches either.

That last part comes with chemistry. No different than chucking it up deep to Goodwin because of his speed.

Taller receivers certainly have more challenges in 3-cones the same as smaller receivers struggle with contested catches, contact, catching radius, high pointing, etc.

The key is balance across all 3 WR position. I think we have that now while still being versatile. Like Cossell, Butler was my favorite for the Z, even over Deebo as that 6'5" frame can be an asset there but everything else, Deebo matches how Kyle uses the Z to perfection; maybe even better than Butler.

Seattle moved from wco to Shottenheimer jr last year so they're a bit different.

My concern with Shanny is he likes to use undersized guys like Garcon and now Deebo on the underneath stuff and they get banged up easily. Garcon had a very spotty resume and Deebo has similar injury concerns. We may regret passing on Brown who's got a better body for it.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

The seahawks passing offense is massively inefficient. We shouldnt try to duplicate anything they do in the pass game.

I am making no assumptions. Of course a big guy can run routes. What I'm saying is great route running is paramount. Having guys who can high point a ball is only worthwhile if the rest of their game is great (or can be with work)

Vernon was plenty big. Dude couldnt high point a damn thing or move laterally. Why his overall career here underwhelmed.

I'm not disagreeing with the inefficiency argument. But the reality is it is a skill used and accessed. It shouldn't be used on the regular but it is a useful skill to have in the bag and it is something QB's lean on at times esp. under duress. The "athletic" QB's are proof of that...slowest TAT (average time they throw from the snap) but highest yards average of those throws. That means they scramble around for a while and then chuck it deep.

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'm not disagreeing with the inefficiency argument. But the reality is it is a skill used and accessed. It shouldn't be used on the regular but it is a useful skill to have in the bag and it is something QB's lean on at times esp. under duress. The "athletic" QB's are proof of that...slowest TAT (average time they throw from the snap) but highest yards average of those throws. That means they scramble around for a while and then chuck it deep.

If you arent using it on the regular it shouldn't be prioritized. More of a bonus or tiebreak if everything is equal.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by thl408:

While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.

As the numbers show that same player would be far more useful on a slant. Box out with the big body

Agreed. I hate the fade with a passion. Although that isolation does create a lot of P.I.'s I would imagine.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

If you arent using it on the regular it shouldn't be prioritized. More of a bonus or tiebreak if everything is equal.

Right. That was exactly my stance of Butler vs. Deboo. I mean, I was splitting hairs there big time.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm assuming none of you BIG WR lovers wouldn't want this kid next yr...he's only 6-1 192

Perfect for the X.

Originally posted by NCommand:

You're right, Garcon would have lowered his head and killed the DB and then gotten his own 15 yard penalty. LOL.

And you know what I'm saying. Who would you run slants inside most with. Goodwin/Pettis or Garcon/Deebo? Different skill sets and different mentalities.

I'm happy with our unit...a lot. I'm most happy that Kyle saw a weakness and addressed it. He's kind of rigid in some aspects so this is a great sign of him evolving IMHO.

My answer to your Pettis question is both. I want a guy who can get open AND be able to be box out and high point and make any contested catch.

Up until this off season, we clearly, have not had the latter.

No he wouldn't have...dude was dealing with a broken neck himself lol. He's been injured more than Goodwin here.

I think every single person wants a guy that can get open like Pettis and high pt/make contested catches...MY point is those WRs don't grow on trees. Hence why I threw our AJ and Julio. Those types of guys are top 10 draft picks and as you saw there wasn't that in this past draft.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm assuming none of you BIG WR lovers wouldn't want this kid next yr...he's only 6-1 192

Perfect for the X.

You do realize kyle moves around all these WRs around