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Big Wide Receivers

Originally posted by Rascal:
Contested deep balls and end zone fades are "stupid" play calls? Says who? End zone fade is probably one of the most common play calls in the NFL. That is when a dominant WR really shows his worth when he towers above and outmuscle DBs. Most WRs can catch a ball when they are wide open. The difficulty of the red zone is because the action is so condensed is such a small area of the field which is why it is arguably more difficult to score when you are in the red zone.

It's a low percentage play. Yes teams use it and it has an extremely high failure rate. Much more likely to be successful when you put together great route combinations mixed with smart route running.

We had two of the most dominant WRs ever. How often were Jerry and TO getting fades? The few times they got them they were wide open because of route running.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on May 1, 2019 at 7:37 PM ]
  • Rascal
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
It's a low percentage play. Yes teams use it and it has an extremely high failure rate. Much more likely to be successful when you put together great route combinations mixed with smart route running.

We had two of the most dominant WRs ever. How often were Jerry and TO getting fades? The few times they got them they were wide open because of route running.


I totally disagree. The fade route is probably the bread and butter play call when you get down to the red zone, especially when you have a big dominant WR whereby you can create mismatches against DBs. If there is such a high failure rate, then why do team keep using it? Have you seen Julio Jones catching end zone fades? This is what teams do when they have a dominant powerful WR, they will throw deep and high. I could pull up countless Julio Jones tapes here, but what would be the point? But, I do think you need to take a closer look without a colored lens at the effectiveness of the fade route instead of shooting it down right off the bat:

Originally posted by Rascal:
I totally disagree. The fade route is probably the bread and butter play call when you get down to the red zone, especially when you have a big dominant WR whereby you can create mismatches against DBs. If there is such a high failure rate, then why do team keep using it? Have you seen Julio Jones catching end zone fades? This is what teams do when they have a dominant powerful WR, they will throw deep and high. I could pull up countless Julio Jones tapes here, but what would be the point? But, I do think you need to take a closer look without a colored lens at the effectiveness of the fade route instead of shooting it down right off the bat:


They don't use it that much on the NFL level. You can pull up a lot of college film of it because he talent disparity of a Julio Jones vs the average college DB is massive.

You need to watch more football if you think it's the bread and butter playcall. It's just not. Pick routes on the goal line are a bigger bread and butter call.
Goodwin, Pettis, Deebo are most likely going to be our top 3 receivers so I got to say no but clearly we brought in some size and that will be useful. Goodwin is worthless in the red zone so Hurd should pay dividends there.
  • Rascal
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
They don't use it that much on the NFL level. You can pull up a lot of college film of it because he talent disparity of a Julio Jones vs the average college DB is massive.

You need to watch more football if you think it's the bread and butter playcall. It's just not. Pick routes on the goal line are a bigger bread and butter call.


"They don't use it that much on the NFL level"??

OK, timeout, let's stop here.
Originally posted by Rascal:
"They don't use it that much on the NFL level"??

OK, timeout, let's stop here.

They don't. Far more slants, picks and route combinations are run. Teams that use it throw it up to tight ends far more than wide receivers. Most WR fades that are used aren't contested because the WR won off the line. Why route running is so key.

A slant on the goal line with a big bodied WR is infinitely more effective.

Do you remember how the 2017 Atlanta Philly playoff game ended? If not I'd recommend rewatching how well simply throwing up the ball to Julio worked out.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on May 1, 2019 at 8:21 PM ]
Originally posted by walker807:
The funny thing is that the Pats won the super bowl by outsmarting McVay on defense and killing the rams secondary with little Edelman. I'm not sure if a big WR had an impact in the playoffs at all. Haven't done any research.


Given 49er history with Rice Owens as well as others I will take them over Edelman anyday
  • All22
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Dez Bryant used to catch those fades all day
  • Rascal
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Originally posted by All22:
Dez Bryant used to catch those fades all day


That's what I was trying to say. But, when he said they don't call fade routes in the NFL, I just thought alright we have to stop here. Is just going to be futile carrying on the debate. LOL.
Originally posted by Rascal:
That's what I was trying to say. But, when he said they don't call fade routes in the NFL, I just thought alright we have to stop here. Is just going to be futile carrying on the debate. LOL.

Not jump ball fades that you are talking about. How is trying to wall off a db and outjump him a better play then making a move, getting physical position and then falling over the goal line with a slant.

Td vs Denver that Pettis had is the fade the NFL uses. Antonio Brown never catches contested fades.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on May 1, 2019 at 9:29 PM ]

Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Ha. The whole NFCW decided to get bigger and taller all at once. Our 'starters' might be the shortest in the NFL but they play big and the OW is certainly bigger.

Rams' WRs are about the same size as ours. Also, I don't think having big WRs in this specific division is much of an advantage due to the average height and weight of the NFCW CB is around 6'3", 200 lbs.

Cooper Kupp.

6'2" 208 lbs.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Cooper Kupp.

6'2" 208 lbs.

So virtually the size as Kendrick Bourne
  • 9moon
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.. Think about it, Jalen " The Towering Inferno " Hurd was really drafted so that we can have a threat inside the REDZONE which was our weakest area on offense last year..
  • Rascal
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Not jump ball fades that you are talking about. How is trying to wall off a db and outjump him a better play then making a move, getting physical position and then falling over the goal line with a slant.

Td vs Denver that Pettis had is the fade the NFL uses. Antonio Brown never catches contested fades.

That will depend on the DB's coverage and how well the QB throws the fade. The QB could attempt to throw a back shoulder fade, but if the ball is a little short, naturally it will become a contested jump ball situation. Or if the DB is really good and he is stuck to the WR, it will still be contested, but perhaps less on the jumping but more on physicality in terms of strength and outmuscling. Or the QB throws high knowing full well he has a big tall WR to allow his WR to highpoint the ball in beating out the DB. The chances are a 6'5" WR should be able to outjump a 5'11", 6' DB more often than not.
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