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Big Wide Receivers

Is this the new direction of the offense?

I know Debo was drafted and he's on the shorter side but i think for this style of offense bigger WR's would be more effective...

Possibly lol

Discuss
Ha. The whole NFCW decided to get bigger and taller all at once. Our 'starters' might be the shortest in the NFL but they play big and the OW is certainly bigger.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Ha. The whole NFCW decided to get bigger and taller all at once. Our 'starters' might be the shortest in the NFL but they play big and the OW is certainly bigger.

Rams' WRs are about the same size as ours. Also, I don't think having big WRs in this specific division is much of an advantage due to the average height and weight of the NFCW CB is around 6'3", 200 lbs.
[ Edited by Heroism on Apr 30, 2019 at 11:01 PM ]
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Quite possibly. I know you are a brand new member, but I have recently detailed my thoughts on exactly that in numerous posts.

As NCommand have also mentioned above, our division rivals have certainly decided to take that route. By that I don't mean they only have big and tall WRs, but rather they have added such type of WRs to their WR Corps.

Let's just list them out so that we all know what we are talking about, shall we? The Seahawks drafted DK Metcalf (6'3", 228 lbs) and signed Jazz Ferguson who we also scouted (6'5", 227 lbs). Meanwhile, the Cards drafted Hakeem Butler (6'6", 225 lbs).

And what about the 9ers? Well, we drafted Jalen Hurd (6'4", 227 lbs) and signed Shawn Poindexter (6'5", 218 lbs).

These are the facts and cannot be disputed. Is it a new trend? That I don't know, but I can see how one could put an argument forward that it is.

I will just say this about the 9ers' possible intentions. Not to say big WRs don't get injured, but our smaller WRs don't seem to be able to handle the hits and the physicality that is demanded of them in the NFL. Marquise Goodwin only played 11 games last season and couldn't even reach 400 yards. Trent Taylor missed 2 games and was even worse as he only just managed 215 yards.

So, as you can see, may be just by going after smaller and shiftier WRs isn't working? One thing for sure, whether our WRs are big or small, they definitely need to up their game in the physicality department. Just ask yourself this, would you rather tackle a 5'8", 180 lbs guy which is exactly what Trent Taylor is or a 6'5" 227 lbs guy? I don't know about you, but I know what my preference would be.

On top of that, our red zone efficiency was THE worst as in dead last in the league. I would argue bigger and taller WRs will usually be able to perform better say on contested jump balls, be it on deep passes or end zone fades.
[ Edited by Rascal on Apr 30, 2019 at 11:29 PM ]
Originally posted by Rascal:
Quite possibly. I know you are a brand new member, but I have recently detailed my thoughts on exactly that in numerous posts.

As NCommand have also mentioned above, our division rivals have certainly decided to take that route. By that I don't mean they only have big and tall WRs, but rather they have added such type of WRs to their WR Corps.

Let's just list them out so that we all know what we are talking about, shall we? The Seahawks drafted DK Metcalf (6'3", 228 lbs) and signed Jazz Ferguson who we also scouted (6'5", 227 lbs). Meanwhile, the Cards drafted Hakeem Butler (6'6", 225 lbs).

And what about the 9ers? Well, we drafted Jalen Hurd (6'4", 227 lbs) and signed Shawn Poindexter (6'5", 218 lbs).

These are the facts and cannot be disputed. Is it a new trend? That I don't know, but I can see how one could put an argument forward that it is.

I will just say this about the 9ers' possible intentions. Not to say big WRs don't get injured, but our smaller WRs don't seem to be able to handle the hits and the physicality that is demanded of them in the NFL. Marquise Goodwin only played 11 games last season and couldn't even reach 400 yards. Trent Taylor missed 2 games and was even worse as he only just managed 215 yards.

So, as you can see, may be just by going after smaller and shiftier WRs isn't working? One thing for sure, whether our WRs are big or small, they definitely need to up their game in the physicality department. Just ask yourself this, would you rather tackle a 5'8", 180 lbs guy which is exactly what Trent Taylor is or a 6'5" 227 lbs guy? I don't know about you, but I know what my preference would be.

On top of that, our red zone efficiency was THE worst as in dead last in the league. I would argue bigger and taller WRs will usually be able to perform better say on contested jump balls, be it on deep passes or end zone fades.


Okay I can agree with that but if that's the case how do we utilize Deebo Samuel who was drafted in the second round also the wide receiver we took last year who was also drafted in the second round?

Please advise
[ Edited by SlowDownBoy on May 1, 2019 at 5:22 PM ]
I would also like to mention that if going big is the Trends they are taking on it definitely comes from Kyle Shanahan listening to his father who learned from Walsh to use bigger wide receivers for the offense
The funny thing is that the Pats won the super bowl by outsmarting McVay on defense and killing the rams secondary with little Edelman. I'm not sure if a big WR had an impact in the playoffs at all. Haven't done any research.
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Originally posted by walker807:
The funny thing is that the Pats won the super bowl by outsmarting McVay on defense and killing the rams secondary with little Edelman. I'm not sure if a big WR had an impact in the playoffs at all. Haven't done any research.


Well, I am not sure what the stats will say about bigger WRs vs smaller WRs, but at the most basic level I will just say this, our smaller and slighter WRs simply can't stay on the field. Last season, Goodwin missed 5 games, Taylor missed 2 games and Pettis missed 4 games. Not to say bigger WRs don't get injured per se, but we have already experimented with small WRs and they simply can't handle it or hasn't worked well, it is time to try something else. I strongly believe that is precisely what Lynch and Shanahan are doing, otherwise they wouldn't have brought in Matthews (6'3", 215 lbs), Jalen Hurd (6'4", 227 lbs) and Poindexter (6'5", 218 lbs). I don't think this just happened by chance, it is a deliberate move.

Funny you mentioned the Patriots about "little" Eldeman, you do know they took a WR in the 1st round in the draft right? And who was that guy? N'Keal Harry (6'2, 228 lbs), the dude is like a mountain of muscles.

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Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
Okay I can agree with that but if that's the case how do we utilize Deebo Samuel who was drafted in the second round also the wide receiver we took last year who was also drafted in the second round?

Please advise

Probably more in the slot, but not limited by it. Jordan Matthews is 6'3" and he can play the slot too. But, don't worry about it, Kyle will know what to do just like how he schemed for Julio Jones and Sanu vs Gabriel at the time in Atlanta.
This receiver is a stud, but darnit, he's not short enough! Said no GM ever.

What has been said is "This receiver can't do anything right, but by golly, hes 6'5"!" And, "this is the best receiever ever, but too bad he's only 5'11"" . Both of those statements get those GMs fired.


I highly doubt Shanny's requirement prior to this year was for a WR to be small, and I highly doubt Bellicheck draft NKeal because he's tall.

All these threads and posts about we need a tall receiver....no we need a good receiver. Being tall can be part of why you're good, but it is not black and white like the size queens seem to think it is.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Quite possibly. I know you are a brand new member, but I have recently detailed my thoughts on exactly that in numerous posts.

As NCommand have also mentioned above, our division rivals have certainly decided to take that route. By that I don't mean they only have big and tall WRs, but rather they have added such type of WRs to their WR Corps.

Let's just list them out so that we all know what we are talking about, shall we? The Seahawks drafted DK Metcalf (6'3", 228 lbs) and signed Jazz Ferguson who we also scouted (6'5", 227 lbs). Meanwhile, the Cards drafted Hakeem Butler (6'6", 225 lbs).

And what about the 9ers? Well, we drafted Jalen Hurd (6'4", 227 lbs) and signed Shawn Poindexter (6'5", 218 lbs).

These are the facts and cannot be disputed. Is it a new trend? That I don't know, but I can see how one could put an argument forward that it is.

I will just say this about the 9ers' possible intentions. Not to say big WRs don't get injured, but our smaller WRs don't seem to be able to handle the hits and the physicality that is demanded of them in the NFL. Marquise Goodwin only played 11 games last season and couldn't even reach 400 yards. Trent Taylor missed 2 games and was even worse as he only just managed 215 yards.

So, as you can see, may be just by going after smaller and shiftier WRs isn't working? One thing for sure, whether our WRs are big or small, they definitely need to up their game in the physicality department. Just ask yourself this, would you rather tackle a 5'8", 180 lbs guy which is exactly what Trent Taylor is or a 6'5" 227 lbs guy? I don't know about you, but I know what my preference would be.

On top of that, our red zone efficiency was THE worst as in dead last in the league. I would argue bigger and taller WRs will usually be able to perform better say on contested jump balls, be it on deep passes or end zone fades.

Contested deep balls and end zone fades are stupid play calls by and large. Very low percentage.

Metcalf missed a whole lot of games for Ole Miss
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on May 1, 2019 at 7:01 PM ]
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Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
This receiver is a stud, but darnit, he's not short enough! Said no GM ever.

What has been said is "This receiver can't do anything right, but by golly, hes 6'5"!" And, "this is the best receiever ever, but too bad he's only 5'11"" . Both of those statements get those GMs fired.

I highly doubt Shanny's requirement prior to this year was for a WR to be small, and I highly doubt Bellicheck draft NKeal because he's tall.

All these threads and posts about we need a tall receiver....no we need a good receiver. Being tall can be part of why you're good, but it is not black and white like the size queens seem to think it is.


No one said is black and white.

But, the fact is we have already tried the smaller and slighter WRs, at the most basic level at least with the ones we have they just can't stay on the field. So, is time to try something different with bigger and more physical WRs and see how that fare. That is just on availability before we talk about what bigger WRs might be able to offer from a skills and style of play standpoint. Is very simple, I don't care how good you are, but if you can't stay on the field nothing else matters.
Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
Is this the new direction of the offense?

I know Debo was drafted and he's on the shorter side but i think for this style of offense bigger WR's would be more effective...

Possibly lol

Discuss


You are going to trigger a lot of fans here with these statements.

all I will say is. Let's just wait and see how the season plays out. If we are still bottom in the league at the red zone, then pointing the finger at Kyle makes a lot of sense here if they cut most of the big guys on the roster. I expect all of them to be cut besides Jalen Hurd since hes a high draft pick. Don't think Matthews, Poindexter, etc are making the roster, based on the history of their moves and preferences.

I also think it will be smart to start faking some injuries for our guys similar to Joe Williams, so we can stash them on IR and designate them to return in 6-8 weeks or however long it was. I think, like Rascal pointed out, we are too small and soft at receiver. I don't expect Goodwin to play 16 games. May have a lot of injuries. Ben Peterson is probably a great sports science guy, but hes not going to have all the answers.

When you see Kyle's quotes about why he loved Deebo Samuel and Jalen Hurd, he replied to that saying they are "the most physical receivers in the draft". Hmm....I wonder why he singled out that trait in particular? Probably because we've got one of the softest groups I've ever seen.
Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:
Okay I can agree with that but if that's the case how do we utilize Deebo Samuel who was drafted in the second round also the wide receiver we took last year who was also drafted in the second round?

Please advise

I think you are under valueing the size of Debo and Pettis. Debo nearly 6' and Pettis is 6'1" all though pettis was a little light in the pants as a rookie 186 he will be closer to 195 one would assume and debo is already stout. take a look around and I think you will find that with the new additions the niners wrs are a solid group physically. for example Jarvis Landry 5'11' 195 and Odell Beckham 5'11" 200. both of these wrs are roughly the same size and are considered elite.
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Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Contested deep balls and end zone fades are stupid play calls by and large. Very low percentage.

Metcalf missed a whole lot of games for Ole Miss


Contested deep balls and end zone fades are "stupid" play calls? Says who? End zone fade is probably one of the most common play calls in the NFL. That is when a dominant WR really shows his worth when he towers above and outmuscle DBs. Most WRs can catch a ball when they are wide open. The difficulty of the red zone is because the action is so condensed is such a small area of the field which is why it is arguably more difficult to score when you are in the red zone.
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