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Alabama vs Notre Dame: BCS Championship

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
the worst NFL teams use to play the best college team in the nation every year.

the NFL stopped that after 6 straight losses.

the college ranks are closer to NFL levels of size and speed now more then ever.

you get the right college team(not this Bama team for sure) and a bad enough NFL team with a dumb coach and epic bad QB and who knows what could happen.

Where in the world did you come up with that? Link?

The defending Super Bowl champions used to play a College All-Star team during the preseason, but they canceled that in '77.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_College_All-Star_Game

Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

It certainly isnt 50+ points like some would suggest. I think 14-17 is about right against the worst NFL team and 30+ against a top team.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Any NFL team would rape and pillage any college team. It would be ugly. To think otherwise, is insane. NFL players are insanely bigger and faster than in the 70s.

But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.

Everyone is bigger and faster becasue of PEDs, earlier training, tech, etc. Although, a lot of college kids are still growing. To throw them in with a pack of grown a55 wolves is crazy. Remember, even the best college teams usually have a small number of players make the NFL. And a REALLY low number of players that actually have a decent career.

No NFL team would have "slow" defenders when compared to the college ranks. The best, fastest DBs and LBs make the NFL. They may be slow relative to the NFL, but do you think any of them would be "slow" against the college ranks? The cream of the crop makes the NFL. Even the s**tty NFL players.

Sometimes common sense can be the only evidence needed.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Any NFL team would rape and pillage any college team. It would be ugly. To think otherwise, is insane. NFL players are insanely bigger and faster than in the 70s.

But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.

In fairness you did say that the Alabama team would roll the Ken Dorsey lead teams like it was a fact.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.

Everyone is bigger and faster becasue of PEDs, earlier training, tech, etc. Although, a lot of college kids are still growing. To throw them in with a pack of grown a55 wolves is crazy. Remember, even the best college teams usually have a small number of players make the NFL. And a REALLY low number of players that actually have a decent career.

No NFL team would have "slow" defenders when compared to the college ranks. The best, fastest DBs and LBs make the NFL. They may be slow relative to the NFL, but do you think any of them would be "slow" against the college ranks? The cream of the crop makes the NFL. Even the s**tty NFL players.

Sometimes common sense can be the only evidence needed.

I think its safe to say that 1/2 of the Bama starters will be drafted fairly high and make an NFL team including 3 or 4 first rounders. That doesnt mean they would or could beat an NFL team though.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.

Everyone is bigger and faster becasue of PEDs, earlier training, tech, etc. Although, a lot of college kids are still growing. To throw them in with a pack of grown a55 wolves is crazy. Remember, even the best college teams usually have a small number of players make the NFL. And a REALLY low number of players that actually have a decent career.

No NFL team would have "slow" defenders when compared to the college ranks. The best, fastest DBs and LBs make the NFL. They may be slow relative to the NFL, but do you think any of them would be "slow" against the college ranks? The cream of the crop makes the NFL. Even the s**tty NFL players.

Sometimes common sense can be the only evidence needed.

If that were the case, we would've always believe the world was flat (prevailing common sense at the time), doctors could never touch the heart in terms of surgery, the US will never have a black President and no man would ever walk on the moon. Point being, common sense isn't always common, and it's only true until it's proven to be false.

Comparatively speaking, many NFL teams have slow players on defense. Not all of their players are slow, but schematically, they might choose to be a bigger, more stout defense as opposed to a faster, quicker team. Plus, bad teams are bad for many reasons...sometimes their fast players aren't very good football players (hello Al), sometimes their players are incredibly athletic but undisciplined and sometimes they just don't mesh as a unit. Bad teams, though superior in size, speed and experience to college players, don't necessarily have good football players.

Not to mention, it's not inconceivable for superior football squads on all levels to lose to inferior squads. Football is not JUST a game of speed, size and strength...it's an intricate mesh of activities that requires a lot of moving parts to work together as perfectly as possible each and every game. Bad teams haven't figured out how to do this properly or consistently, thus, they are vulnerable not only to superior squads crushing them, but also inferior ones.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Jan 8, 2013 at 9:57 AM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Any NFL team would rape and pillage any college team. It would be ugly. To think otherwise, is insane. NFL players are insanely bigger and faster than in the 70s.

But you have ZERO proof of this, other than your opinion. And it's not like college football players aren't bigger and faster than they were in the 70's too. Where do you think these insanely bigger and faster players come from, a manufacturing plant in Singapore? No, they come from the college ranks.

But the point is, people are stating this as a fact, when there's no recent evidence or examples today. There's no accounting for conditions such as the right college team, the right coaching staff with the right game plan and the right breaks of the game going their way against a hapless NFL team with a s**tty QB, slow defenders and an idiot head coach.

Given the right conditions, I think almost anything is possible in terms of a competitive activity.

In fairness you did say that the Alabama team would roll the Ken Dorsey lead teams like it was a fact.

Not at all.....that was just my opinion as I have ZERO idea for sure what would happen.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think its safe to say that 1/2 of the Bama starters will be drafted fairly high and make an NFL team including 3 or 4 first rounders. That doesnt mean they would or could beat an NFL team though.

So, maybe six players... but out of the six how many will have decent careers? Probably two or three tops.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Any NFL team would rape and pillage any college team. It would be ugly. To think otherwise, is insane. NFL players are insanely bigger and faster than in the 70s.

college teams are insanely bigger and faster then in the 70s.

NFL speed and size is less rare now then in the 70s.

the line between fringe NFL players is as thin as it has ever been.

in the pre season the NFL cuts down 100s of fringe players that have NFL size and speed.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.
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Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

if KC played Bama

the game would look like last nights game with Bama looking like ND

Just looking at KC starting defense they avg 4 years of NFL exp you just can't match that with college players
Strength, speed and knowledge is just far greater

Not to mention the rules are different to make the college game easier
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Interesting that one of the last few games was the college all-stars (which wasn't even a cohesive team, just a collection of players brought together for this game) came close to beating the reigning super bowl champion Steelers in 1975, 21-14. So I wonder what would've happened if the reigning college national champions of that year (as a team, with experience in their system and familiarity with each other) played the worst NFL team from that year. Or even if this college all-star squad (who came close to beating the world champs) would've played the worst NFL team from that year, instead of the best.

And yes, it's very much a different game in the NFL now than it is in the 70's, but the question is why? Part of the answer to why the NFL is so different now, with bigger, faster, stronger more athletic players is that college players are bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than they were in the 70's. There's a clear gap between the two (the best college team and the worst NFL team), but it's not the order of magnitude that some people are making it out to be.

Just my crazy opinion.

Yes, but the converse of the "they weren't even a cohesive team" point is that the Steelers were playing a meaningless exhibition game in August, whereas that College All-Star team was playing a group of their idols. I'm sure that game meant a lot more to the kids than the pros. I don't think guys like Franco Harris or Joe Greene were gonna go balls to the wall in that situation and risk injury. I don't know what was customary at the time, but I also wonder if the NFL teams would play their starters for the entire game, or if they'd treat it in a similar fashion to the way preseason games are handled now.

We've all seen what a joke the Pro Bowl is, with grown men playing grab ass for 4 quarters while trying to not get hurt, and it doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this exhibition was similar in nature, at least from the NFL side of things.

If there was actually something at stake for both an NFL team and a college team, I think the college team would get smoked. Too much of a size/speed discrepancy up front on both sides of the ball, IMO.

Probably true, but since this hypothetical would only ever be an exhibition game, I'm not sure you could ever get an NFL team to really play up to its fullest potential. So yes, that's an important dynamic.

if KC played Bama

the game would look like last nights game with Bama looking like ND

Just looking at KC starting defense they avg 4 years of NFL exp you just can't match that with college players
Strength, speed and knowledge is just far greater

Not to mention the rules are different to make the college game easier

That's your opinion and it's a valid one...however:

1.) It doesn't make it a fact though
2.) experience doesn't always win you football games
3.) having a superior squad (in terms of speed, strength and knowledge) doesn't automatically guarantee you victories. Sure helps, but doesn't lock in a win every single time.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think its safe to say that 1/2 of the Bama starters will be drafted fairly high and make an NFL team including 3 or 4 first rounders. That doesnt mean they would or could beat an NFL team though.

So, maybe six players... but out of the six how many will have decent careers? Probably two or three tops.

It would be more than 6 thats for sure. 4 lineman alone will likely be drafted in the first 2 rounds. I would say that in the next 2 years 10-11 guys will be drafted in top 4 rds as a minimum. Impossible to say how successful of a career they will have. Just never know.
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
we run it maybe 4 times a YEAR. Ask your self why we only run it 4 times a year

and how successful have we been at it?

Yeah but the key to an option is it only takes one time for it to work and it will go for a huge gain. Remember Kaepernick running a long a TD in against Miami? Its kind of a feast or famine type of running play.

I agree. But the point I was making is that in college many teams can live and die by the option. This is Bc the lateral speed of LBs in no where close to NFL LB whose pursuit speed is too much and NFL QBs would get killed.

The speed of the NFL is too much.
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