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Scott Tolzien vs Josh Johnson for #3 QB position

Originally posted by NCommand:
Don't buy it for a second...that's Harbaugh's way of seeing enough already with ST and wanting to see more of Kaep/JJ in game #2. Or at least I hope so...b/c ST is a gamer. Period.

but if he wanted to see more of him he oculdve put him against the #2's there is a huge difference between the 2's and 3;s and 4's i mean its the difference of being on an nfl team and not
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Don't buy it for a second...that's Harbaugh's way of seeing enough already with ST and wanting to see more of Kaep/JJ in game #2. Or at least I hope so...b/c ST is a gamer. Period.

but if he wanted to see more of him he oculdve put him against the #2's there is a huge difference between the 2's and 3;s and 4's i mean its the difference of being on an nfl team and not

Didn't he play against most of the 2's and had the most playing time? That said, I'm sure Harbaugh/Roman aren't evaluating him against another team's defense per se...but how he manages the offense, leadership, ball placement, decision making, coverage reads, timing, how he handles the blitz, etc. and other intangibles.

NO WAY after his performance recently would anyone consider him #4 (which is why I'm safely assuming he isn't and Harbaugh wants to see more of Kaep/JJ for game #2). ST didn't have a single poor throw (2 dropped passes and a blind side hit/INT) and all were right on the money and gave the WR's plenty of time for RAC. He's LOOKED like a real WCO QB. ST can only perform given the circumstances he was placed in...and he played perfectly.
I don't take the pecking order in preseason games too important at all. Just a rotation order. Harbaugh knows he's going to keep Smith and Kaep (no way he's going to cut a developmental 2nd round pick in his second year camp). I think those 2 guys are for sure on the roster. It's between Johnson and Tolzien. They are just looking at the overall basic functioning of the qb in the offense at this point regardless of competition level on the field.
Rotation only means that for this game, Harbaugh wants to see more of Johnson against higher quality players. He also wants to see Kaep get more time.

This is all about which QB goes on the 53 and who goes on the PS. In this case, if Tolzien is clearly better, he goes on PS or the 53. Johnson either makes the 53 or is cut. He has no PS eligibility left.

None of this really matter until after the 3rd game. That is when these decisions are made.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by English:
But then ....... we'd only have two qb's.

?

why would be everz need more than the Golden Boy and GOD ?






Smart a**'s! Be serious! This is a football site!
Originally posted by dj43:
Rotation only means that for this game, Harbaugh wants to see more of Johnson against higher quality players. He also wants to see Kaep get more time.

This is all about which QB goes on the 53 and who goes on the PS. In this case, if Tolzien is clearly better, he goes on PS or the 53. Johnson either makes the 53 or is cut. He has no PS eligibility left.

None of this really matter until after the 3rd game. That is when these decisions are made.

Agreed. There have been a few moves that make me go, "Hmmmm."
1. The commentators noted how high Baalke was on Tolzien and how mad he was that he got away to SD. And first chance, we lock him down.
2. ST has played exceptional against us and for us now in the two pre season games (literally, exceptional)
3. We developed him last year and we run a WCO which suits his strengths to a T.
4. But we drafted Kaep who's skill set is about as far from a prototypical WCO QB as you can get (but a movement in today's offenses such as Vick, RGIII, Newton, etc.).
5. We run a WCO but have monster OL, run a power running game (Gore/Jacobs) and use the run to set up the pass.
6. We have NO prototypical WR's (huge size) on this team...all are small and ultra fast.


I'm sure there is more but, "Hmmmm." What's our deal, Harbaalke?
Lol

I definitely didn't mean to imply that both things can happen. Just that JJ being cut is waaaaaaaaay more likely than CK being traded at this point in time

I have going into the season:

Alex
CK
Tolzien
Originally posted by NCommand:
Didn't he play against most of the 2's and had the most playing time? That said, I'm sure Harbaugh/Roman aren't evaluating him against another team's defense per se...but how he manages the offense, leadership, ball placement, decision making, coverage reads, timing, how he handles the blitz, etc. and other intangibles.

NO WAY after his performance recently would anyone consider him #4 (which is why I'm safely assuming he isn't and Harbaugh wants to see more of Kaep/JJ for game #2). ST didn't have a single poor throw (2 dropped passes and a blind side hit/INT) and all were right on the money and gave the WR's plenty of time for RAC. He's LOOKED like a real WCO QB. ST can only perform given the circumstances he was placed in...and he played perfectly.

i think he played mostly 3's

he came in at the 3rd Q you play starters for about half of 1 and then your 2's typically finish off the half

i think what you said is accurate that the coach probably wants to see a bit more of JJ ( it hink kaep has #2 spot locked up from what harbaugh said) but to say he didnt have as single poor throw is a bit of an exaggeration
[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Aug 14, 2012 at 4:43 PM ]
It's really hard to guess what's going on in JH's mind. There's probably more complexity going on in terms of considerations than any of us can understand. I would like to speculate that maybe he wants to give JJ a chance to show what he has to make the decision absolutely clear and give him a fair chance. I also wonder that if JJ looked pretty good but not as good as ST that there might be some trade value. We've heard this angle but maybe someone is QB starved enough to give up a low round pick. In any event, none of us think he is blind or dumb enough to be oblivious to reality. Everyone sees the potential in ST. It's blatantly obvious. Harbaugh and Balke want to win period. The relationship between JJ and JH means nothing when it comes down to the final consideration. Who makes the football team better is the only issue. Barring some major turn around, we all know right now it's Scott Tolzein.
Originally posted by dj43:
Rotation only means that for this game, Harbaugh wants to see more of Johnson against higher quality players. He also wants to see Kaep get more time.

This is all about which QB goes on the 53 and who goes on the PS. In this case, if Tolzien is clearly better, he goes on PS or the 53. Johnson either makes the 53 or is cut. He has no PS eligibility left.

None of this really matter until after the 3rd game. That is when these decisions are made.

No way Tolzien makes it to Practice Squad.
Originally posted by 60sfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Rotation only means that for this game, Harbaugh wants to see more of Johnson against higher quality players. He also wants to see Kaep get more time.

This is all about which QB goes on the 53 and who goes on the PS. In this case, if Tolzien is clearly better, he goes on PS or the 53. Johnson either makes the 53 or is cut. He has no PS eligibility left.

None of this really matter until after the 3rd game. That is when these decisions are made.

No way Tolzien makes it to Practice Squad.

If he does, he's gone. You know that astute GM's around the league are taking note, especially after Friday's game. There are a couple of QB needy teams that could start him right now if he knew their offense. I just hope Kaep's measurables and draft status don't blind the coaching staff to Tolzien's immeasurables. If he doesn't tank in the next few outings, I trust Harbaugh enough to keep him, certainly over JJ, and if he is decidedly better than Kaep, I can see him leapfrog over him to be Smith's backup, draft position or no draft position.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i think he played mostly 3's

he came in at the 3rd Q you play starters for about half of 1 and then your 2's typically finish off the half

i think what you said is accurate that the coach probably wants to see a bit more of JJ ( it hink kaep has #2 spot locked up from what harbaugh said) but to say he didnt have as single poor throw is a bit of an exaggeration

Gotcha...believe you are right...mostly 3's. But then again, he also has to throw to the 3's as well.

As to the throws, he did only have three incompletions and 2 were drops and 1 was the blind-side hit d/t Person. So, not sure how much better a guy can do esp. when you factor how well he also played against us last year and that Baalke wanted him even before he went to SD and nabbed him instantly.

I would rather have his as our #2 b/c we wouldn't need to change our offense - blocking, assignments, game-plans, etc. like we would if Kaep came in. I see Harbaugh saying Kaep is emerging as the #2 is instilling confidence in him but I wouldn't be surprised if ST ends up not only pushing JJ off the roster but being the first one off the bench if Alex actually got hurt (even if Kaep is deemed the "#2" in the interim). Development doesn't stop once pre season and "order" has been determined on the depth chart.
I know we should be hesitant about hyping unproven players in preseason... but I really can see why people are doing this for Tolzien. Dude just looked great... accurate... composed. That said, I'll leave it to Jim to decide his fate. Not gonna overreact to whatever becomes of Tolzien.
I really hope we keep Scotty T on the 53 man this year. He looked very good against us in the preseason last year, and very good against the Vikings this year.

But, as Matt M pointed out, we didn't give Josh J a $350,000 signing bonus just to cut him.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I know we should be hesitant about hyping unproven players in preseason... but I really can see why people are doing this for Tolzien. Dude just looked great... accurate... composed. That said, I'll leave it to Jim to decide his fate. Not gonna overreact to whatever becomes of Tolzien.

Agree! Thought folks were over reacting last year about the guy but he does seem to have talent. It would be nice if they could keep all four but I have a feeling that this won't happen. Also thought that if they wanted to keep them all at least one would have to find a job on STs as a return guy, or as a WR. Now they are overloaded at those spots as well. Johnson better start impressing JH soon!