Scott Tolzien vs Josh Johnson for #3 QB position

Originally posted by NCommand:
Gotcha...believe you are right...mostly 3's. But then again, he also has to throw to the 3's as well.

As to the throws, he did only have three incompletions and 2 were drops and 1 was the blind-side hit d/t Person. So, not sure how much better a guy can do esp. when you factor how well he also played against us last year and that Baalke wanted him even before he went to SD and nabbed him instantly.

I would rather have his as our #2 b/c we wouldn't need to change our offense - blocking, assignments, game-plans, etc. like we would if Kaep came in. I see Harbaugh saying Kaep is emerging as the #2 is instilling confidence in him but I wouldn't be surprised if ST ends up not only pushing JJ off the roster but being the first one off the bench if Alex actually got hurt (even if Kaep is deemed the "#2" in the interim). Development doesn't stop once pre season and "order" has been determined on the depth chart.

no arguements here

i think he is the second best qb on our roster and should be #2 i would feel much more comfortable with him coming in than kaep

Johnson is a goner, Harbaugh is heading into a 'youth' direction at future 'depth' decisions, and we'd need McCloughan back in our FO to let a talent like Tolzien go.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Gotcha...believe you are right...mostly 3's. But then again, he also has to throw to the 3's as well.

As to the throws, he did only have three incompletions and 2 were drops and 1 was the blind-side hit d/t Person. So, not sure how much better a guy can do esp. when you factor how well he also played against us last year and that Baalke wanted him even before he went to SD and nabbed him instantly.

I would rather have his as our #2 b/c we wouldn't need to change our offense - blocking, assignments, game-plans, etc. like we would if Kaep came in. I see Harbaugh saying Kaep is emerging as the #2 is instilling confidence in him but I wouldn't be surprised if ST ends up not only pushing JJ off the roster but being the first one off the bench if Alex actually got hurt (even if Kaep is deemed the "#2" in the interim). Development doesn't stop once pre season and "order" has been determined on the depth chart.

no arguements here

i think he is the second best qb on our roster and should be #2 i would feel much more comfortable with him coming in than kaep

I think another poster alluded to the fact that Kaep is only starting year 2 of the development project. With time, we already know of his athletic abilities, we may start to see more comfort and natural feel for the pocket (ala Tolzien right now). They are just so different in styles. I'd love to see Kaep asked to stay in the pocket during pre season with the #1's. I would like to see ST with the #1's as well against a good defense.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I think another poster alluded to the fact that Kaep is only starting year 2 of the development project. With time, we already know of his athletic abilities, we may start to see more comfort and natural feel for the pocket (ala Tolzien right now). They are just so different in styles. I'd love to see Kaep asked to stay in the pocket during pre season with the #1's. I would like to see ST with the #1's as well against a good defense.

I'd like to see Scott Tolzien run some read-option plays and throw the ball down the field.

Originally posted by 60sfan:

Originally posted by dj43:
Rotation only means that for this game, Harbaugh wants to see more of Johnson against higher quality players. He also wants to see Kaep get more time.

This is all about which QB goes on the 53 and who goes on the PS. In this case, if Tolzien is clearly better, he goes on PS or the 53. Johnson either makes the 53 or is cut. He has no PS eligibility left.

None of this really matter until after the 3rd game. That is when these decisions are made.

No way Tolzien makes it to Practice Squad.

I believe Tolzien will make the 53 and be the third QB on game day. (45+ #3 QB = 46) He is clearly better and I agree he will not make it through waivers if he is cut in hope of making it to the PS. If he continues to play as well as he did last Friday night, and Kaep has trouble mastering the I formation, he may be #2, at least until Kaepernick learns how to play.

When he was drafted I felt Kaep would take two years before he was NFL game ready. Tolzien may make that a reality.

All it takes is jj having a good quarter in the Houston game and for Tolzien to struggle and this thread will be flipped on its head.

Originally posted by natrone06:
All it takes is jj having a good quarter in the Houston game and for Tolzien to struggle and this thread will be flipped on its head.

Everyone's so desperate for football. The preseason feels like the playoffs right now. Every muscle twitch is analyzed.

Harbaugh is just playing mind games with other GMs scouring teams for potential upgrades to their own QB situation.

I have a hard time believing JJ is going to make the roster.

I'd rather have Tolzien as our #3 rather than Johnson. We already know what JJ can do, besides #3 is suppose to be for project type or young QB's, not some 6 year vet struggling in competition for a #2 job. Like I've said before, much rather have a poised pocket passer than a one-trick pony. I could give a rats ass about a 78 yard TD run from a QB, I'd rather see a QB move the ball utilizing his weapons around him and commanding his offense.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

I'd rather have Tolzien as our #3 rather than Johnson. We already know what JJ can do, besides #3 is suppose to be for project type or young QB's, not some 6 year vet struggling in competition for a #2 job. Like I've said before, much rather have a poised pocket passer than a one-trick pony. I could give a rats ass about a 78 yard TD run from a QB, I'd rather see a QB move the ball utilizing his weapons around him and commanding his offense.

Is The one-trick pony thing pointed at Kaep?

I wish ppl would acknowledge that thus far Tolzien is absolutely a one-trick pony. He had was asked to do the same thing over and over last game because that's what he does well. Short, accurate rythm-passes can be a beautiful thing but they aren't all you need to be successful.

Originally posted by kush:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'd rather have Tolzien as our #3 rather than Johnson. We already know what JJ can do, besides #3 is suppose to be for project type or young QB's, not some 6 year vet struggling in competition for a #2 job. Like I've said before, much rather have a poised pocket passer than a one-trick pony. I could give a rats ass about a 78 yard TD run from a QB, I'd rather see a QB move the ball utilizing his weapons around him and commanding his offense.

Is The one-trick pony thing pointed at Kaep?

I wish ppl would acknowledge that thus far Tolzien is absolutely a one-trick pony. He had was asked to do the same thing over and over last game because that's what he does well. Short, accurate rythm-passes can be a beautiful thing but they aren't all you need to be successful.

pretty sure he meant JJ.

and Tolzien is far from a "one-trick" pony. in his limited appearances, he has shown that he has the tools to be an NFL QB. command of the huddle, accuracy, quick release and quick decision-making. will he be a successful QB? that is yet to be determined.

Originally posted by kush:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'd rather have Tolzien as our #3 rather than Johnson. We already know what JJ can do, besides #3 is suppose to be for project type or young QB's, not some 6 year vet struggling in competition for a #2 job. Like I've said before, much rather have a poised pocket passer than a one-trick pony. I could give a rats ass about a 78 yard TD run from a QB, I'd rather see a QB move the ball utilizing his weapons around him and commanding his offense.

Is The one-trick pony thing pointed at Kaep?

I wish ppl would acknowledge that thus far Tolzien is absolutely a one-trick pony. He had was asked to do the same thing over and over last game because that's what he does well. Short, accurate rythm-passes can be a beautiful thing but they aren't all you need to be successful.

WTF!!! What I mean by one-trick pony is someone who rather take off and run instead of making his reads, going through his progressions, spreading the ball around. Short accurate passes is the bread and butter of the WCO, Montana utilized the short yard pass to get into a rhythm, slowly picking a defense apart. Walsh use to set up the run with a pass and some times vice versa. LOL what was Kaeps passing numbers 5 for 9 40 yards, only time Kaep shined was when they were running a simple zone read option or rolling out. The guy is more of a project than Smith was coming outta college.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by kush:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I'd rather have Tolzien as our #3 rather than Johnson. We already know what JJ can do, besides #3 is suppose to be for project type or young QB's, not some 6 year vet struggling in competition for a #2 job. Like I've said before, much rather have a poised pocket passer than a one-trick pony. I could give a rats ass about a 78 yard TD run from a QB, I'd rather see a QB move the ball utilizing his weapons around him and commanding his offense.

Is The one-trick pony thing pointed at Kaep?

I wish ppl would acknowledge that thus far Tolzien is absolutely a one-trick pony. He had was asked to do the same thing over and over last game because that's what he does well. Short, accurate rythm-passes can be a beautiful thing but they aren't all you need to be successful.

pretty sure he meant JJ.

and Tolzien is far from a "one-trick" pony. in his limited appearances, he has shown that he has the tools to be an NFL QB. command of the huddle, accuracy, quick release and quick decision-making. will he be a successful QB? that is yet to be determined.

Nah I actually meant both of them.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

WTF!!! What I mean by one-trick pony is someone who rather take off and run instead of making his reads, going through his progressions, spreading the ball around. Short accurate passes is the bread and butter of the WCO, Montana utilized the short yard pass to get into a rhythm, slowly picking a defense apart. Walsh use to set up the run with a pass and some times vice versa. LOL what was Kaeps passing numbers 5 for 9 40 yards, only time Kaep shined was when they were running a simple zone read option or rolling out. The guy is more of a project than Smith was coming outta college.

Not at all true abt Kaep only shining while running. He made a perfect short pass from the pocket to AJJ and it came out on time. He did exactly what was asked of him on each given play call. The almost pick intended for AJJ was late and he could've hit reuland over the middle on the play he was sacked but other than that he was on-point.

Originally posted by boast:

pretty sure he meant JJ.

and Tolzien is far from a "one-trick" pony. in his limited appearances, he has shown that he has the tools to be an NFL QB. command of the huddle, accuracy, quick release and quick decision-making. will he be a successful QB? that is yet to be determined.

All of tolziens plays were of basically the same variety. Until he shows something other than short rythm passes I've gotta think that's all he can do. I need to see it ontape. The throw to Nathan Palmer was gutsy and travelled around 30 yards so that's nothing to sneeze at but hell, Shaun hill could've made that pass. I'm not saying Tolzien can't do anything else I'm just saying he's only shown one thing.