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I guess the NFL really want Ray Lewis to go out on top!!!!

The refs let them play and I'm okay with that. It was more a preparation issue than anything else. Kaep was threading the needle after the blackout. Flacco was just throwing the ball up and Boldin was too physical for our defensive backs, he just out wrestled them for the ball. Pat and Bo didn't shine.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
The offense cannot run time off of the clock via penalty. Just as the defense cannot stop the clock via penalty.

Straight from the nfl:
1A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the
following acts:
(a) a foul by either team that prevents the snap (i.e., false start, encroachment, etc.)
(b) intentional grounding;
(c) an illegal forward pass thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage;
(d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds;
(e) spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play after a down has ended, except after a touchdown; or
(f) any other intentional foul that causes the clock to stop.
Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is
applicable.
When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run
10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play
signal. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts
remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case
the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout. The defense always has the option to
decline the 10-second runoff and have the yardage penalty enforced, but if the yardage penalty
is declined, the 10-second runoff is also declined.
If the action is by the defense, the play clock will be reset to 40 seconds, and the game clock will
start on the ready signal, unless the offense chooses to have the clock start on the snap. If the
defense has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of the game
clock being started.



The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the
operator's own positive knowledge:
(a) at the end of a down in which there is a free kick or fair-catch kick;
(b) when the kicking team recovers a scrimmage kick that has been touched by the receiving team
beyond the line of scrimmage;
(c) when the ball is out of bounds;
(d) when the ball is dead on or behind a goal line;
(e) at the end of a down during which a foul occurs;
(f) when a forward pass is incomplete;
(g) when the player who originally takes the snap is tackled behind the line of scrimmage;
Exception: After the two-minute warning of a half, the game clock shall not be stopped.
A.R. 4.6  Quarterback A1 drops back to pass and is tackled behind the line.
Ruling: Stop the game clock until the ball can be respotted at succeeding spot. (40-second play clock starts
when timeout signal is given).
(h) at the time of a foul for which the ball remains dead or is dead immediately;
(i) when the Referee signals the two-minute warning for a half;
(j) when a down is completed during which or after there is a change of possession; or
(k) when any official signals a timeout for any other reason.




Sorry. There is no rule that states that you reset the game clock if there is a penalty and the play is still going on.

With a penalty there still would've been 4 seconds left and a safety kick.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Originally posted by Kaep4MVP:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
I dont know if you watch footage or not, but I cant see how this CLEAR wrap around is not a PI. On any level of football you play, when your arms are outside of the pads ITS A HOLD. And for goodness sake, had the called the hold on the punt, the hold would have taken place AND the clock would have been reset to the time of the foul which woild have been 9 sec. and a FG attempt or hail mary

The time would not have been reset. It would've been 4 seconds and a safety kick. the EXACT same thing that happened without the penalty. Refs did no wrong there.


The clock would have been reset to the time of the penalty (9 seconds).


Mike Greenberg agrees with us.
So does Mike Golic
Originally posted by Kaep4MVP:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
The offense cannot run time off of the clock via penalty. Just as the defense cannot stop the clock via penalty.

Straight from the nfl:
1A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the
following acts:
(a) a foul by either team that prevents the snap (i.e., false start, encroachment, etc.)
(b) intentional grounding;
(c) an illegal forward pass thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage;
(d) throwing a backward pass out of bounds;
(e) spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play after a down has ended, except after a touchdown; or
(f) any other intentional foul that causes the clock to stop.
Penalty: For Illegally Conserving Time: Loss of five yards unless a larger distance penalty is
applicable.
When actions referred to above are committed by the offensive team while time is in, officials will run
10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play
signal. The game clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. If the offensive team has timeouts
remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of a 10-second runoff, in which case
the game clock will start on the snap after the timeout. The defense always has the option to
decline the 10-second runoff and have the yardage penalty enforced, but if the yardage penalty
is declined, the 10-second runoff is also declined.
If the action is by the defense, the play clock will be reset to 40 seconds, and the game clock will
start on the ready signal, unless the offense chooses to have the clock start on the snap. If the
defense has timeouts remaining, it will have the option of using a timeout in lieu of the game
clock being started.



The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the
operator's own positive knowledge:
(a) at the end of a down in which there is a free kick or fair-catch kick;
(b) when the kicking team recovers a scrimmage kick that has been touched by the receiving team
beyond the line of scrimmage;
(c) when the ball is out of bounds;
(d) when the ball is dead on or behind a goal line;
(e) at the end of a down during which a foul occurs;
(f) when a forward pass is incomplete;
(g) when the player who originally takes the snap is tackled behind the line of scrimmage;
Exception: After the two-minute warning of a half, the game clock shall not be stopped.
A.R. 4.6  Quarterback A1 drops back to pass and is tackled behind the line.
Ruling: Stop the game clock until the ball can be respotted at succeeding spot. (40-second play clock starts
when timeout signal is given).
(h) at the time of a foul for which the ball remains dead or is dead immediately;
(i) when the Referee signals the two-minute warning for a half;
(j) when a down is completed during which or after there is a change of possession; or
(k) when any official signals a timeout for any other reason.




Sorry. There is no rule that states that you reset the game clock if there is a penalty and the play is still going on.

With a penalty there still would've been 4 seconds left and a safety kick.


Thank you! I was reading this same article and missed it. You basically pointed out my point.

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator's own positive knowledge"

"(h) at the time of a foul for which the ball remains dead or is dead immediately; "

So the official can stop the AT THE POINT OF A FOUL!! Just as they stop offsides and sometimes they dont.
Great game ,but ref spoilt game the best team did not win because of very poor calls by the ref. very clear to me 49s were not getting the honest call by ref ,when he gave 1st down when clearly any one could see he was well short.the ref spoilt a good game .
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Mike Greenberg agrees with us.

Deion Sanders and Michael Irvin agrees with me about the 4th down play. So fine you can be right since Golic and Greenberg said, and I can be right since Sanders and Irvin said.
This was a team loss. When you dig yourself a 17 or 22 point hole, like the last two games, you are going to eventually lose. Defense was bad last night. That was not a top 5 or 10 defense. Calls go both ways. On Vernon Davis' 4th quarter drop, one of the interior OL grabbed and pulled the jersey of a DT, who had broken free. It was a clear holding call, and would have probably killed that drive. The refs were letting them play last night.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Thank you! I was reading this same article and missed it. You basically pointed out my point.

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator's own positive knowledge"

"(h) at the time of a foul for which the ball remains dead or is dead immediately; "

So the official can stop the AT THE POINT OF A FOUL!! Just as they stop offsides and sometimes they dont.

You might want to read that again. "at the time of a foul FOR WHICH THE BALL REMAINDS DEAD OR IS DEAD IMMEDIATELY"

Like a false start. At no point was the ball dead when the Ravens were holding.
Originally posted by Kaep4MVP:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Mike Greenberg agrees with us.

Deion Sanders and Michael Irvin agrees with me about the 4th down play. So fine you can be right since Golic and Greenberg said, and I can be right since Sanders and Irvin said.


Right, Irvin who survived on pushing off. Deion's reason was........"He initiated contact". How empirical is that? Oh Our our Eric Davis agrees with me too.
Originally posted by Kaep4MVP:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Thank you! I was reading this same article and missed it. You basically pointed out my point.

"The game clock operator shall stop the game clock (timeout) upon a signal by any official or upon the operator's own positive knowledge"

"(h) at the time of a foul for which the ball remains dead or is dead immediately; "

So the official can stop the AT THE POINT OF A FOUL!! Just as they stop offsides and sometimes they dont.

You might want to read that again. "at the time of a foul FOR WHICH THE BALL REMAINDS DEAD OR IS DEAD IMMEDIATELY"

Like a false start. At no point was the ball dead when the Ravens were holding.


You misinterpreted the text. In that case, the offense could stop the clock via false start. The rule is stating that the ref can stop play from the TIME of the foul. "OR IS DEAD IMMEDIATELY" is also to be considered.
[ Edited by Puckdaddy on Feb 4, 2013 at 3:25 AM ]
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Right, Irvin who survived on pushing off. Deion's reason was........"He initiated contact". How empirical is that? Oh Our our Eric Davis agrees with me too.

. He said the refs let it play out at the end of games. Which is true.
[ Edited by Kaep4MVP on Feb 4, 2013 at 3:24 AM ]
Originally posted by Kaep4MVP:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Right, Irvin who survived on pushing off. Deion's reason was........"He initiated contact". How empirical is that? Oh Our our Eric Davis agrees with me too.

. He said the refs let it play out at the end of games. Which is true.


BUT unlike you he said it was a CLEAR hold. You said it wasnt "because Crabs made first contact". Which is irrelevant to PI
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
You misinterpreted the text. In that case, the offense could stop the clock via false start. The rule is stating that the ref can stop play from the TIME of the foul.

If this is true, then why is the ball not ruled dead immediately when there is holding? That rule is talking about False start or an offsides that jumps a lineman.

If there is an offsides in which a lineman jumps it does stop the clock. The ref then signals to start the clock again with a new 40 second play clock.
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
BUT unlike you he said it was a CLEAR hold. You said it wasnt "because Crabs made first contact". Which is irrelevant to PI

I never said it wasn't a hold because Crabtree initiated contact. I said I'm fine with the no call because Crabtree initiated the contact. I thought the holding call was 50/50 and could've been called either way but of course niner fans only see it their way.
[ Edited by Kaep4MVP on Feb 4, 2013 at 3:30 AM ]