Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by elguapo:
I'm not comparing the two quarterbacks being similar I'm comparing the situation where he kicks so much ass in training camp that Shanahan starts him. My Lance comparison is a more accurate Cam Newton

This is exactly what I predict happening.

I even think their careers will follow a similar path. Defense and run heavy early, turning over to him at contract time.

The comparison with Russ goes further than that for me as well. The deep ball looks the same with the high arc.

A couple more weeks and we'll be talking about the Trey/Jimmy competition. Can't wait.

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Let's look at it this way, If Jimmy is playing it means we are winning which is not a bad thing. I don't see Kyle sticking with Jimmy if we are losing games. I think he would even pull him after week 1 if we lose to the Lions. Because the only way the Niners lose to the Lions is if our QB hands them the game.

Nah barring injury, we gotta be like 0-3 before Jimmy gets the hook. That's assuming hes playing like ass.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Welcome, Trey Lance: The option concepts Kyle Shanahan might use to take advantage of the #49ers rookies' abilities. From @FB_FilmAnalysis ...https://t.co/q0vEpDlXAO

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) July 6, 2021

THL would love this article

When we look at some of the things Kyle did with RG3, but also what he did with CJ, using his mobility on QB option keep plays, it makes me upset that we spent so much time talking about the guy the media thought Kyle would select at #3. Just because he was more likely to 'stay in the pocket and execute the play as it was drawn up'. What we didn't talk about enough is the added dimension that a run threat QB would bring to the offense. Looking back it was silly to ever think Kyle would prefer a pure pocket QB just because he was more likely to not run. I should have thought of some of the plays CJ was used in and referred to that as evidence that there is indeed a place for a dual threat QB in Kyle's offense.

Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly this back and forth on Lance starting week 1 is silly.

Kyle will play the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win whether it's Jimmy or Trey. However if the coaches feel the QBs are on equal footing then Lance will get the start for the extra dimension he brings to the offense.

Jimmy won't get to start if Trey is looking better than him and Trey won't stat if Jimmy is clearly running the offense more efficiently.

We'll see how each guy performs when camp opens up in a few weeks. For now i just want to hear any nuggets we get about their offseason training.

I don't think the equation is that simple. If Jimmy is clearly better and the coaches don't think Trey is ready, then it makes sense to start Jimmy. However, you have to weigh what gives us the best chance to win right now versus what gives us the best chance to win over the next 3 years. Getting Trey some starting experience this year could pay off significantly going forward. If Jimmy is just a little better or if you feel confident that Trey is far enough along to execute the offense capably then it makes sense to start him right away.

John and Kyle have talked before how they plan for 3 years in advance when it comes to managing the roster, so I don't see why they wouldn't take the future into consideration with this decision as well.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Welcome, Trey Lance: The option concepts Kyle Shanahan might use to take advantage of the #49ers rookies' abilities. From @FB_FilmAnalysis ...https://t.co/q0vEpDlXAO

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) July 6, 2021

THL would love this article

When we look at some of the things Kyle did with RG3, but also what he did with CJ, using his mobility on QB option keep plays, it makes me upset that we spent so much time talking about the guy the media thought Kyle would select at #3. Just because he was more likely to 'stay in the pocket and execute the play as it was drawn up'. What we didn't talk about enough is the added dimension that a run threat QB would bring to the offense. Looking back it was silly to ever think Kyle would prefer a pure pocket QB just because he was more likely to not run. I should have thought of some of the plays CJ was used in and referred to that as evidence that there is indeed a place for a dual threat QB in Kyle's offense.

What I want to see is the Jet Sweep out of the gun like we are accustomed to doing the last couple of years with the element of the QB option off of it. Defense looks to overplay the Jet Sweep the QB is now naked. Defense looks to stop the QB run option and you are no longer in a position to take the edge away on the Jet Sweep....It's all sorts of winning for Deebo and Aiyuk. You can also get tricky and add a slide route element to these package of plays just to be mean.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Welcome, Trey Lance: The option concepts Kyle Shanahan might use to take advantage of the #49ers rookies' abilities. From @FB_FilmAnalysis ...https://t.co/q0vEpDlXAO

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) July 6, 2021

THL would love this article

When we look at some of the things Kyle did with RG3, but also what he did with CJ, using his mobility on QB option keep plays, it makes me upset that we spent so much time talking about the guy the media thought Kyle would select at #3. Just because he was more likely to 'stay in the pocket and execute the play as it was drawn up'. What we didn't talk about enough is the added dimension that a run threat QB would bring to the offense. Looking back it was silly to ever think Kyle would prefer a pure pocket QB just because he was more likely to not run. I should have thought of some of the plays CJ was used in and referred to that as evidence that there is indeed a place for a dual threat QB in Kyle's offense.

What I want to see is the Jet Sweep out of the gun like we are accustomed to doing the last couple of years with the element of the QB option off of it. Defense looks to overplay the Jet Sweep the QB is now naked. Defense looks to stop the QB run option and you are no longer in a position to take the edge away on the Jet Sweep....It's all sorts of winning for Deebo and Aiyuk. You can also get tricky and add a slide route element to these package of plays just to be mean.

yo 816! What's good?
The misdirection of the run game just went up another level with a mobile QB. I watched rookie RG3 and his zone read plays were coupled with inside zone blocking - this is one reason I think they drafted Banks, strength to drive block on inside zone while having adequate feet to execute outside zone. But that year, Alfred Morris was cutting up defenses with outside zone. With all the possibilities of misdirection in the run game, the playaction game will benefit as well. If the 49ers run game is efficient, the QB will get very favorable looks (clear reads) at all levels of the field.

Originally posted by thl408:
yo 816! What's good?
The misdirection of the run game just went up another level with a mobile QB. I watched rookie RG3 and his zone read plays were coupled with inside zone blocking - this is one reason I think they drafted Banks, strength to drive block on inside zone while having adequate feet to execute outside zone. But that year, Alfred Morris was cutting up defenses with outside zone. With all the possibilities of misdirection in the run game, the playaction game will benefit as well. If the 49ers run game is efficient, the QB will get very favorable looks (clear reads) at all levels of the field.

I'm doing good....I've been hanging out in the cesspool that can be Niner Twitter

I honestly think that if Trey is who we hope he is, we will run the ball more because of exactly what you've just stated. The threat of a running QB contorts a defense in a way that lets the actual backs feast when exploiting a defense's response to the QB run threat. 2012 was the only year in Kyle's playcaller career where he ran more than he threw. Another wrinkle to Kyle's ground game that really wasn't used as much in '12 is the gap and power stuff we really started to see in Kyle's ground game in 2019. This s**t could be really unfair if Trey is who we hope he is....I just don't want him rushed. If he legitimately wins the QB1 this year great, if not that's fine as well because I think his skills even in a package type setting helps us a lot as he gets used to the league. I am also a guy that appreciates how the offense functions with a healthy Jimmy......I'm also cautiously optimistic that we will see some improve in the pass pro. I think that in and of itself will dictate how successful 2021 will be from an offensive perspective.

Originally posted by thl408:
yo 816! What's good?
The misdirection of the run game just went up another level with a mobile QB. I watched rookie RG3 and his zone read plays were coupled with inside zone blocking - this is one reason I think they drafted Banks, strength to drive block on inside zone while having adequate feet to execute outside zone. But that year, Alfred Morris was cutting up defenses with outside zone. With all the possibilities of misdirection in the run game, the playaction game will benefit as well. If the 49ers run game is efficient, the QB will get very favorable looks (clear reads) at all levels of the field.

I'm also interested to see if Kyle's offense changes much from a passing distance profile when Trey takes the reins. Kyle offense has been pretty sniper like in it's downfield attacking over his playcalling career. I've kinda broke it down on post 73 on this thread https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/187791-kyle-shanahans-statistical-profile-offensive/page5/

In 2012 with the benefit of the most productive ground game he's had as a Playcaller, Kyle's passing game featured 83% of the throws under 15 air yards and 17% of them over. The NFL average is usually around 81-82% under and 18-19% over. Hell, when Kyle had Ryan playing at easily at top 5 QB in the league level and the best WR (Atl 2016) he was just at about League ave. Until I see it, I just don't see Kyle as a bombs away type playcaller....as a said much more sniper-like in it's downfield striking. Funny enough though, the most vertical Kyle's offense has been as a playcaller was with Rex Grossman in Washington and Brian Hoyer in Cleveland.....I guess those are his archetypal QB

Originally posted by socal1632:

Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly this back and forth on Lance starting week 1 is silly.

Kyle will play the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win whether it's Jimmy or Trey. However if the coaches feel the QBs are on equal footing then Lance will get the start for the extra dimension he brings to the offense.

Jimmy won't get to start if Trey is looking better than him and Trey won't stat if Jimmy is clearly running the offense more efficiently.

We'll see how each guy performs when camp opens up in a few weeks. For now i just want to hear any nuggets we get about their offseason training.

Trey is not only looking better right now but he's making throws every day that Jimmy can't. Jimmy needs to be traded ASAP for pics. You know Kyle really wants to. Just wants to see Trey in pads against preseason bullets. Jimmy offers Kyle like 60 percent of his playbook and D's had him knocked to start his first full season. A manufactured, Chitty Chitty bang bang O with a great d has given Kyle his w's. Jimmy's deficiencies in his 55 dead drives in the Super Bowl illustrates that perfectly. We win that game going away with Treyasaurus Lance

I don't like to play with hypotheticals. I play with facts and logic.

Who said right now that Trey is looking better than Jimmy? Almost all reports out of OTAs have said Jimmy actually looked really good - best he's looked.

The reports on Trey have been that he's improved every practice, which is terrific but doesn't YET translate he's looking better than Jimmy.

UNTIL that happens there is no reason to act like Trey is infallible and we automatically win with him in that SB. How do we know any throws he could make that Jimmy couldn't wouldn't be wiped away by BS penalties? Remember the dart Jimmy threw to Kittle? Everyone acts like those are throws Jimmy can't make, yet that was a perfect throw that resulted in nothing but a wasted down.

If Trey continues to improve - eventually he will pass Jimmy because he has the physical ability to do things Jimmy cannot do so there's only so much Jimmy can do to fight him off.

However right now he hasn't passed him based on reports from OTAs but we'll see soon enough where the both of them stand.

Which takes me back to my point...right now saying Jimmy should start or Trey should start is silly. We don't have critical information from training camp/preseason to evaluate who really gives us the better chance to win games now.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly this back and forth on Lance starting week 1 is silly.

Kyle will play the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win whether it's Jimmy or Trey. However if the coaches feel the QBs are on equal footing then Lance will get the start for the extra dimension he brings to the offense.

Jimmy won't get to start if Trey is looking better than him and Trey won't stat if Jimmy is clearly running the offense more efficiently.

We'll see how each guy performs when camp opens up in a few weeks. For now i just want to hear any nuggets we get about their offseason training.

I don't think the equation is that simple. If Jimmy is clearly better and the coaches don't think Trey is ready, then it makes sense to start Jimmy. However, you have to weigh what gives us the best chance to win right now versus what gives us the best chance to win over the next 3 years. Getting Trey some starting experience this year could pay off significantly going forward. If Jimmy is just a little better or if you feel confident that Trey is far enough along to execute the offense capably then it makes sense to start him right away.

John and Kyle have talked before how they plan for 3 years in advance when it comes to managing the roster, so I don't see why they wouldn't take the future into consideration with this decision as well.

I do think it's that simple. We have a SB roster right now. It would be incredibly stupid to start a QB the coaches think doesn't give us the best chance to win NOW just to give him starting experience. If you want to play a guy you think will go through growing pains then you don't do it when you have a roster that can go all the way and you have an alternative at QB.

We saw what can happen...we have to take advantage of our roster this year because who knows what FA brings and now we're limited in draft capital to add rookies to help for next few years.

The other factor you have to consider is locker room response. If they see Jimmy and Trey on the same level or Trey looking better than Jimmy then nobody will question the decision to start Lance. But playing Lance when he doesn't look as or better than Jimmy and we bench Jimmy may not sit well with the roster. Some of these guys are on one year deals, some of them are older. They want to win the SB, not worry about giving the rookie starting reps to worry about year or two from now.

too much Trey hopium around here, the dude hasn't played one NFL snap yet, lets see how he handles his first preseason game and go from there...

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly this back and forth on Lance starting week 1 is silly.

Kyle will play the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win whether it's Jimmy or Trey. However if the coaches feel the QBs are on equal footing then Lance will get the start for the extra dimension he brings to the offense.

Jimmy won't get to start if Trey is looking better than him and Trey won't stat if Jimmy is clearly running the offense more efficiently.

We'll see how each guy performs when camp opens up in a few weeks. For now i just want to hear any nuggets we get about their offseason training.

I don't think the equation is that simple. If Jimmy is clearly better and the coaches don't think Trey is ready, then it makes sense to start Jimmy. However, you have to weigh what gives us the best chance to win right now versus what gives us the best chance to win over the next 3 years. Getting Trey some starting experience this year could pay off significantly going forward. If Jimmy is just a little better or if you feel confident that Trey is far enough along to execute the offense capably then it makes sense to start him right away.

John and Kyle have talked before how they plan for 3 years in advance when it comes to managing the roster, so I don't see why they wouldn't take the future into consideration with this decision as well.

I do think it's that simple. We have a SB roster right now. It would be incredibly stupid to start a QB the coaches think doesn't give us the best chance to win NOW just to give him starting experience. If you want to play a guy you think will go through growing pains then you don't do it when you have a roster that can go all the way and you have an alternative at QB.

We saw what can happen...we have to take advantage of our roster this year because who knows what FA brings and now we're limited in draft capital to add rookies to help for next few years.

The other factor you have to consider is locker room response. If they see Jimmy and Trey on the same level or Trey looking better than Jimmy then nobody will question the decision to start Lance. But playing Lance when he doesn't look as or better than Jimmy and we bench Jimmy may not sit well with the roster. Some of these guys are on one year deals, some of them are older. They want to win the SB, not worry about giving the rookie starting reps to worry about year or two from now.

The QB that gives us the best chance to win in week one against the Lions is not necessarily the same as the one that gives us the best chance to win the Super Bowl. The players aren't going to care if we start Trey over Jimmy. They knew when we drafted Trey that Jimmy was done here. I'm not saying that we should tank the season to give Trey starting experience, but if it is at all close in camp, then it makes more sense to go with the rookie.

Also, if we were only concerned with doing whatever gave us the best chance to win right now, we wouldn't have drafted Trey in the first place.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by genus49:
Honestly this back and forth on Lance starting week 1 is silly.

Kyle will play the guy he thinks gives him the best chance to win whether it's Jimmy or Trey. However if the coaches feel the QBs are on equal footing then Lance will get the start for the extra dimension he brings to the offense.

Jimmy won't get to start if Trey is looking better than him and Trey won't stat if Jimmy is clearly running the offense more efficiently.

We'll see how each guy performs when camp opens up in a few weeks. For now i just want to hear any nuggets we get about their offseason training.

I don't think the equation is that simple. If Jimmy is clearly better and the coaches don't think Trey is ready, then it makes sense to start Jimmy. However, you have to weigh what gives us the best chance to win right now versus what gives us the best chance to win over the next 3 years. Getting Trey some starting experience this year could pay off significantly going forward. If Jimmy is just a little better or if you feel confident that Trey is far enough along to execute the offense capably then it makes sense to start him right away.

John and Kyle have talked before how they plan for 3 years in advance when it comes to managing the roster, so I don't see why they wouldn't take the future into consideration with this decision as well.

I do think it's that simple. We have a SB roster right now. It would be incredibly stupid to start a QB the coaches think doesn't give us the best chance to win NOW just to give him starting experience. If you want to play a guy you think will go through growing pains then you don't do it when you have a roster that can go all the way and you have an alternative at QB.

We saw what can happen...we have to take advantage of our roster this year because who knows what FA brings and now we're limited in draft capital to add rookies to help for next few years.

The other factor you have to consider is locker room response. If they see Jimmy and Trey on the same level or Trey looking better than Jimmy then nobody will question the decision to start Lance. But playing Lance when he doesn't look as or better than Jimmy and we bench Jimmy may not sit well with the roster. Some of these guys are on one year deals, some of them are older. They want to win the SB, not worry about giving the rookie starting reps to worry about year or two from now.

The QB that gives us the best chance to win in week one against the Lions is not necessarily the same as the one that gives us the best chance to win the Super Bowl. The players aren't going to care if we start Trey over Jimmy. They knew when we drafted Trey that Jimmy was done here. I'm not saying that we should tank the season to give Trey starting experience, but if it is at all close in camp, then it makes more sense to go with the rookie.

Also, if we were only concerned with doing whatever gave us the best chance to win right now, we wouldn't have drafted Trey in the first place.

We're not ONLY concerned with doing whatever gives us the best change to win right now...but you have the team to win now so it would be bad to ignore that.

Players know Trey is the long term solution but until he's the best QB on the roster he shouldn't be handed the job unless he's at least on the same level or just a hair under Jimmy because he offers more physically.

Still it's a bad precedent to set to replace a guy who helped the team go to the SB with a rookie before he shows he deserves the job.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
too much Trey hopium around here, the dude hasn't played one NFL snap yet, lets see how he handles his first preseason game and go from there...

Lots of rookie QBs start their first game, not sure that argument makes sense. The argument for keeping him on the bench is his lack of experience in the college ranks and the fact that most teams with rookie QBs aren't as good. But the idea that he'll get better by not playing after not playing for almost 2 years seems iffy at best.