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Kyle Shanahan's Statistical Profile - Offensive

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Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

That and needed red zone improvement. Not to mention failures in the clutch.

In fact, if we get some "closers," as Kyle put it, we'll instantly jump to a 0.500 team, even with the ridiculous turnover differential problem. If we improve turnover differential AND end game play, we'll be a contender.
[ Edited by 5_Golden_Rings on Jan 8, 2019 at 12:52 AM ]
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Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Crazy that we can't win with all of those great numbers on offense

All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

A centre and one or two top level guards for the Oline would also enhance the healthy offence
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Crazy that we can't win with all of those great numbers on offense

All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

Yeah, T-3 for giveaways on offense this year + shattering a takeaway record on defense = #2 pick in the draft

Granted the guys on offense that were giving it away were mostly PS & UDFA's (fumbles/INT's) and the secondary was a different lineup every week, but these issues plus the RZ are what need to be completely focused on for 2019.
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by WestCoastForever:
Excellent work, 816. Thanks!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Beautiful!

It's was 2003 the last time we thrown for 25 or more TDs as a team.

FML.

That must end this year with JG.
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Crazy that we can't win with all of those great numbers on offense

All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

This is a solid theory.

2011 49ers: +28 turnover ratio (38 takeaways to 10 giveaways). Packers also had 38 takeaways, but gave it away more, even with Rodgers throwing only 6 INTs that year.

Where do you think that awesome 13-3 record would have been with a mere +14? +4? 0? -4? LOL.

Pretty insane, that Harbaugh year 1 was dominance via turnovers (I mean, Vic Fangio ).

Then when the 2011 49ers played their first post season game against the other 13-3 team, they managed to produce 5 turnovers (where they +5, I forget?)....

They beat the 13-3 team with the same formula as before, but this time a bit more aggressive on offense (299 yards passing, 36 points total).

Then the next game against the Giants, -2 turnover differential and the loss.

2011 49ers were anemic AF on offense, and still went 14-4.....unbelievable.
[ Edited by JTsBiggestFan on Jan 8, 2019 at 7:46 PM ]
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Crazy that we can't win with all of those great numbers on offense

All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

This is a solid theory.

2011 49ers: +28 turnover ratio (38 takeaways to 10 giveaways). Packers also had 38 takeaways, but gave it away more, even with Rodgers throwing only 6 INTs that year.

Where do you think that awesome 13-3 record would have been with a mere +14? +4? 0? -4? LOL.

Pretty insane, that Harbaugh year 1 was dominance via turnovers (I mean, Vic Fangio ).

Then when the 2011 49ers played their first post season game against the other 13-3 team, they managed to produce 5 turnovers (where they +5, I forget?)....

They beat the 13-3 team with the same formula as before, but this time a bit more aggressive on offense (299 yards passing, 36 points total).

Then the next game against the Giants, -2 turnover differential and the loss.

2011 49ers were anemic AF on offense, and still went 14-4.....unbelievable.

The offense chewed clock, wore defenses down, led the league in opponent average starting field position and never gave up the ball.

Not sure if Kyle's offense can do those things but it can score.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Crazy that we can't win with all of those great numbers on offense

All evidence points to a historically bad turnover differential as the culprit. A healthy Jimmy G and heavy investment in an improved pass rush will do wonders.

This is a solid theory.

2011 49ers: +28 turnover ratio (38 takeaways to 10 giveaways). Packers also had 38 takeaways, but gave it away more, even with Rodgers throwing only 6 INTs that year.

Where do you think that awesome 13-3 record would have been with a mere +14? +4? 0? -4? LOL.

Pretty insane, that Harbaugh year 1 was dominance via turnovers (I mean, Vic Fangio ).

Then when the 2011 49ers played their first post season game against the other 13-3 team, they managed to produce 5 turnovers (where they +5, I forget?)....

They beat the 13-3 team with the same formula as before, but this time a bit more aggressive on offense (299 yards passing, 36 points total).

Then the next game against the Giants, -2 turnover differential and the loss.

2011 49ers were anemic AF on offense, and still went 14-4.....unbelievable.

The offense chewed clock, wore defenses down, led the league in opponent average starting field position and never gave up the ball.

Not sure if Kyle's offense can do those things but it can score.

2011 Niners turned the ball over 10 times and gained over 4900 yards and scored 380 points and the opponent started their drives on the 24 yardline on average.

Kyle's 2016 falcons offense turned the ball over 11 times and gained over 6600 yards and scored 540 points and the opponent started their drives on the 26 yardline on average.

I think he can do just fine.

I
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jan 9, 2019 at 4:38 PM ]
Just for the hell of it, here were the offensive numbers splits based on starting QB
Jimmy G (3 games)
YPG - 359.7
Pass - 207.0
Rush - 152.7
PPG - 24.3
CJ (5 Games)
YPG - 341.4
Pass - 219.2
Rush - 122.2
PPG - 20.0
Mullens (8 games)
YPG - 372.9
Pass - 268.8
Rush - 104.1
PPG - 21.1
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jan 15, 2019 at 9:04 AM ]
Updated

Originally posted by Niners816:
[center]2008 - Houston OC
Yards- 382 ypg
Pass- 267 ypg
Rush- 115 ypg
Ratio- 58%pass/42%rush
TD-int ratio- 21-20
Rush Td- 16
First downs-340
PF - 366
Comp%- 66.1%
Yards per pass- 7.3
Yards per rush- 4.3
QB rate- 88.4
Pass attempts in the gun%- 16.3%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 31.3%
TE1 - 19.1
WR2 - 16.3
HB1 - 13.6
WR3- 5.2

2009 - Houston OC
Yards- 383 ypg
Pass- 291 ypg
Rush- 92 ypg
Ratio- 59%pass/41%rush
Td-int ratio- 29-17
Rush td- 13
First downs- 340
PF- 388
Comp%- 67.3%
Yards per pass- 7.5
Yards per rush- 3.5
QB rate- 96.3
Pass attempts in the gun%- 29.7%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 25.3%
WR2 - 13.3
HB1 - 11.0
TE1 - 10.0
WR3 -9.5

2010 - Washington OC
Yards- 337 ypg
Pass- 246 ypg
Rush- 91 ypg
Ratio- 65%pass/35%rush
Td-int ratio- 21-19
Rush td- 9
First downs- 295
PF- 302
Comp%- 57.7%
Yards per pass- 6.0
Yards per rush- 4.2
QB rate- 78.0
Pass attempts in the gun%- 33.1%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 26.6%
TE1 - 22.1
WR2 - 12.6
HB1 - 11.2
TE2 -6.0


2011 - Washington OC
Yards- 337 ypg
Pass- 236 ypg
Rush- 101 ypg
Ratio- 61%pass/39%rush
Td-int ratio- 19-24
Rush td- 8
First downs- 312
PF- 288
Comp%- 58.5%
Yards per pass- 6.0
Yards per rush- 4.0
QB rate- 73.3
Pass attempts in the gun%- 47.5%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 19.7%
TE1 - 17.1
HB1 - 14.1
WR2 - 13.3
WR3 -6.4


2012 - Washington OC
Yards- 383 ypg
Pass- 214 ypg
Rush- 169 ypg
Ratio- 48%pass/52%rush
Td-int ratio- 24-8
Rush td- 22
First downs- 341
PF- 436
Comp%- 65.8%
Yards per pass- 7.2
Yards per rush- 5.2
QB rate- 102.1
Pass attempts in the gun%- 71.7%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 16.5%
WR2 - 15.1
WR3 - 14.1
WR4 - 13.1
TE1 -8.6


2013 - Washington OC
Yards- 370 ypg
Pass- 234 ypg
Rush- 136 ypg
Ratio- 60%pass/40%rush
Td-int ratio- 20-19
Rush td- 14
First downs- 329
PF- 334
Comp%- 58.1%
Yards per pass- 5.7
Yards per rush- 4.8
QB rate- 76.1
Pass attempts in the gun%- 81.9%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 31.8%
TE1 - 12.7
WR2 - 11.8
HB1 - 8.7
WR3 -8.5


2014 - Cleveland OC
Yards- 325 ypg
Pass- 217 ypg
Rush- 108 ypg
Ratio- 53%pass/47%rush
Td-int ratio- 12-16
Rush td- 17
First downs- 294
PF- 299
Comp%- 54.6%
Yards per pass- 6.5
Yards per rush- 3.6
QB rate- 72.8
Pass attempts in the gun%- 59.6%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 23.0%
WR2 - 17.2
WR3 - 13.1
TE1 - 8.8
WR4 -8.8

2015 - Atlanta OC
Yards- 374 ypg
Pass- 274 ypg
Rush- 100 ypg
Ratio- 61%pass/39%rush
Td-int ratio- 21-17
Rush td- 13
First downs- 359
PF- 339
Comp%- 66.0%
Yards per pass- 6.7
Yards per rush- 3.8
QB rate- 87.8
Pass attempts in the gun%- 66.3%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 33.1%
HB1- 17.8
TE1 - 14.3
WR2 - 10.5
WR3 -6.3

2016 - Atlanta OC
Yards- 416 ypg
Pass- 295 ypg
Rush- 121 ypg
Ratio- 58%pass/42%rush
Td-int ratio- 38-7
Rush td- 20
First downs- 379
PF- 540
Comp%- 69.6%
Yards per pass- 8.2
Yards per rush- 4.6
QB rate- 116.8
Pass attempts in the gun%- 60.7%

Catch distribution
WR1 - 22.3%
WR2 - 15.8
HB1 - 14.5
WR3 - 9.4
HB2 -8.3

Personnel Groupings
11- 45% (74% pass/26% run)
21- 24% (42% pass/58% run)
12- 17% (49% pass/51% run)

2017 - SF HC
Yards- 349 ypg
Pass- 245 ypg
Rush- 104 ypg
Ratio- 61%pass/39%rush
Td-int ratio- 15-15
Rush td- 15
First downs- 321
PF- 331
Comp%- 59.6%
Yards per pass- 6.0
Yards per rush- 4.1
QB rate- 78.8
Pass attempts in the gun%- 60.8%

Catch distribution
HB1 - 16.3%
WR1 - 16.3
TE1 - 11.9
WR2 - 11.9
WR3 - 11.0
FB1 - 9.1

Personnel Groupings
11- 58% (76% pass/24% run)
21- 21% (46% pass/54% run)
12- 15% (48% pass/52% run)

****2018 - SF HC****
Yards- 360.6 ypg
Pass- 241.7 ypg
Rush- 118.9 ypg
Ratio- 58%pass/42%rush
Td-int ratio- 26-20
Rush td- 7
First downs- 331
PF- 342
Comp%- 62.2
Yards per pass- 6.7
Yards per rush- 4.5
QB rate- 87.8
Pass attempts in the gun%- 61.5%

Catch distributions
TE1 - 26.6%
WR1 - 12.7
FB1 - 9.1
HB1 - 8.2
WR2 - 8.2
WR3 - 7.9
WR4 - 7.3

***2019 - SF HC****
Yards- 381.1 ypg
Pass- 237.0 ypg
Rush- 144.1
Ratio- 51%pass/49%rush
Td-int ratio- 28-13
Rush td- 23
First downs- 336
PF- 479
Comp%- 69.2
Yards per pass- 7.9
Yards per rush- 4.6
QB rate- 103.1
Undercenter 57%
Shotgun 43%

Target distributions
TE1 - 22.4
WR1 - 16.9
WR2 - 11.1
WR3 - 9.2
HB1 - 6.3
FB1 - 5.0

Does anyone realize that the 49ers finished in the top 10 in both scoring and yards per game for the first time since 2003? We were only one of three teams not to do so in that time. The closest we came was 2011 and 2012 (11th). Thank Shanny for breaking that cycle.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/49ers/article/Now-hear-this-49ers-Jimmy-Garoppolo-was-at-14940711.php
So I ended up breaking down and subscribing to Football Outsiders. It's got some pretty cool info. As I do I decided to throw together a chart about Kyle's QBs as a playcaller. This is based on a QB with 200 attempts in the season. In the event there were more than one at that attempt level I took the numbers of the highest rated guy. So 2018 and 2020 are Nick and 2017 is Hoyer.

Here are the categories I looked at:

DYAR-This is Defense-adjusted yards above replacement. This shows a QB in comparison to a replacement level QB given play against the same level of defense. Number is represented in a league ranking. Basically where the QB ranked that season.

DVOA-This is defense adjusted value over an average QB. The higher the number the better. Negative means that it's below average QB play.

The last chart is based on distances of throws. FO breaks down the passing distances into four categories: Short, Mid, Deep and Bomb. For my chart, I have combined the Short and Mid. That represents Shorter throws. Therefore, the Deep and Bomb have also been combined and represents the Deeper throws. These numbers are percentages of attempts.

Year DYAR
2008 10th
2009 6th
2010 25th
2011 23rd
2012 11th
2013 29th
2014 24th
2015 19th
2016 1st
2017 27th
2018 24th
2019 11th
2020 25th

Year DVOA
2008 18.0
2009 29.3
2010 -6.9
2011 -7.9
2012 16.6
2013 -13.1
2014 -5.3
2015 -1.9
2016 39.1
2017 -16.7
2018 4.2
2019 10.8
2020 -7.7

Year Short/Deep pass ratio
2008 85% / 15%
2009 83% / 17%
2010 83% / 17%
2011 79% / 21%
2012 83% / 17%
2013 82% / 18%
2014 78% / 22%
2015 86% / 14%
2016 81% / 19%
2017 85% / 15%
2018 85% / 15%
2019 87% / 13%
2020 86% / 14%

One of the first things I noticed when looking at these metrics is that for more than half of his playcalling career he has had below average QB play (negative DVOA number indicate this). On the flipside, the last 3 times he got double-digit DVOA play from his QB the offenses where electric. Each scoring well over 400+ points (470+ for our SB team and 540+ for his Atl SB team). Another thing is that Kyle's passing game profile from an air yard perspective, has a career ave of about 84% of the passing game operating in the Short to Mid range and 16% more towards the Deeper sectors. Interesting to note that the most vertical his passing game got was with Rex Grossman and Cleveland Brian Hoyer.

As for Kyle's offense, it really has developed over the years. In houston, it was basically his Pop's and Kubiak's offense. Of course it added elements of the read-option in Was with RGIII and since he's been with us the ground game in particular has become this really exciting scheme that uses the tried and true ZBS and it's also more gap and power runs than any of the other guys considered a Zone Blocking ground game. The jet sweep run/pass stuff is a nice wrinkle that allows him to attack the edges and kinda try to hide some fault pass pro (especially in the interior and especially on known passing situations.....IMO, this is still the biggest opportunity for advancement in his offense. We just have to get the damn pass pro figured out).

What's gonna be interesting is how Trey finds himself in this offense in the next couple of years. If his running translate (I really think it will) and you add the element of the QB to this scheme it could be pretty damn unfair. Seriously, the only time in Kyle's playcalling career he ran more than passed was with RGIII....its not all QB running either. It's what the threat of the QB run does to a defense. That's why I kinda think if Trey is who we hope he is we will actually run more as an offense.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jul 2, 2021 at 11:36 AM ]
☝️

What's gonna be interesting is how Trey finds himself in this offense in the next couple of years. If his running translate (I really think it will) and you add the element of the QB to this scheme it could be pretty damn unfair. Seriously, the only time in Kyle's playcalling career he ran more than passed was with RGIII....its not all QB running either. It's what the threat of the QB run does to a defense. That's why I kinda think if Trey is who we hope he is we will actually run more as an offense.

Holy crap, this information is gold.

Whether you want to call Kyle (or himself) a WCO play caller or not, you can clearly see his WCO foundation through and through. So the next time fans want to scream about not having a QB who can throw deep, remember this post. Homie don't play that and certainly can't play that if the pass protection is putting his QB's on I.R. or turning them into Blaine Gabbert 2.0 (ghosts). You also NEED a deep threat receiver...one that isn't constantly on the injury books and can develop chemistry with the QB over time since these are such low % plays.

That's a terrific point about the "threat" of the QB run and how that will positively effect Kyle's ability to play call.

This entire off season seemed to dispel every stereotype of Kyle and his personnel preferences: got a mobile QB vs. classic pocket passer, valued a G high and one of massive size, valued pass protection first as a skill set, got a play making S, valued a RB high, etc.

I can't wait to see how he comes out of the think-tank this off season!

Great work, brother!
[ Edited by NCommand on Jul 3, 2021 at 5:24 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
☝️

What's gonna be interesting is how Trey finds himself in this offense in the next couple of years. If his running translate (I really think it will) and you add the element of the QB to this scheme it could be pretty damn unfair. Seriously, the only time in Kyle's playcalling career he ran more than passed was with RGIII....its not all QB running either. It's what the threat of the QB run does to a defense. That's why I kinda think if Trey is who we hope he is we will actually run more as an offense.

Holy crap, this information is gold.

Whether you want to call Kyle (or himself) a WCO play caller or not, you can clearly see his WCO foundation through and through. So the next time fans want to scream about not having a QB who can throw deep, remember this post. Homie don't play that and certainly can't play that if the pass protection is putting his QB's on I.R. or turning them into Blaine Gabbert 2.0 (ghosts). You also NEED a deep threat receiver...one that isn't constantly on the injury books and can develop chemistry with the QB over time since these are such low % plays.

That's a terrific point about the "threat" of the QB run and how that will positively effect Kyle's ability to play call.

This entire off season seemed to dispel every stereotype of Kyle and his personnel preferences: got a mobile QB vs. classic pocket passer, valued a G high and one of massive size, valued pass protection first as a skill set, got a play making S, valued a RB high, etc.

I can't wait to see how he comes out of the think-tank this off season!

Great work, brother!

Kyle doesn't run Bill Walsh's offense but I'd argue he runs an evolutionary version of his pop's offense which in my mind was most definitely a Flavor of the WCO.

I'm in no position to tell Kyle what his offense is but I think a pass game that's predicated on a short attack and YAC is most definitely in the WCO stratosphere.

If I had to sum up Kyle's scheme it would be the following:

-short high percentage passes built to drive YAC
-OZ and Jet sweep run/passes to attack the edge
-boot action off of this edge attack
-power and gap runs to attack the middle
-flourishes attacking the intermediate middle with passes.
-deep shots are taken more sniper like in approach

The league as a whole throws the ball under 15 air yards 81-82% of the time in the last 5 years. That means they throw it deep 18-19% (meaning throws with air yards over 15). From what I've seen the most deep aggressive teams in the league on a yearly bases throwing deep are in the 24-25% range. Kyle when he had a top 5 caliper QB and the best WR on the planet was a tick above league averages in this (see 2016). As much as people wanna b***h and moan about deep passing, its just as much of a function of pass pro and quality of WR as it it's the QB.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Jul 3, 2021 at 7:48 AM ]
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by NCommand:
☝️

What's gonna be interesting is how Trey finds himself in this offense in the next couple of years. If his running translate (I really think it will) and you add the element of the QB to this scheme it could be pretty damn unfair. Seriously, the only time in Kyle's playcalling career he ran more than passed was with RGIII....its not all QB running either. It's what the threat of the QB run does to a defense. That's why I kinda think if Trey is who we hope he is we will actually run more as an offense.

Holy crap, this information is gold.

Whether you want to call Kyle (or himself) a WCO play caller or not, you can clearly see his WCO foundation through and through. So the next time fans want to scream about not having a QB who can throw deep, remember this post. Homie don't play that and certainly can't play that if the pass protection is putting his QB's on I.R. or turning them into Blaine Gabbert 2.0 (ghosts). You also NEED a deep threat receiver...one that isn't constantly on the injury books and can develop chemistry with the QB over time since these are such low % plays.

That's a terrific point about the "threat" of the QB run and how that will positively effect Kyle's ability to play call.

This entire off season seemed to dispel every stereotype of Kyle and his personnel preferences: got a mobile QB vs. classic pocket passer, valued a G high and one of massive size, valued pass protection first as a skill set, got a play making S, valued a RB high, etc.

I can't wait to see how he comes out of the think-tank this off season!

Great work, brother!

Kyle doesn't run Bill Walsh's offense but I'd argue he runs an evolutionary version of his pop's offense which in my mind was most definitely a Flavor of the WCO.

I'm in no position to tell Kyle what his offense is but I think a pass game that's predicated on a short attack and YAC is most definitely in the WCO stratosphere.

If I had to sum up Kyle's scheme it would be the following:

-short high percentage passes built to drive YAC
-OZ and Jet sweep run/passes to attack the edge
-boot action off of this edge attack
-power and gap runs to attack the middle
-flourishes attacking the intermediate middle with passes.
-deep shots are taken more sniper like in approach

The league as a whole throws the ball under 15 air yards 81-82% of the time in the last 5 years. That means they throw it deep 18-19% (meaning throws with air yards over 15). From what I've seen the most deep aggressive teams in the league on a yearly bases throwing deep are in the 24-25% range. Kyle when he had a top 5 caliper QB and the best WR on the planet was a tick above league averages in this (see 2016). As much as people wanna b***h and moan about deep passing, its just as much of a function of pass pro and quality of WR as it it's the QB.

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