Big Wide Receivers

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

This is exactly what I was thinking

Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense system has always favored taller wide receivers

JR and JT were "big" WR's at that time. Then came Harper and Irvin. Total mismatch for our little CB's like Eric Davis.

Yes but also remember when we had rice Owen and Stokes I'm a field at the same time

Young at his best statistical year passing yardage wise because they were all big targets

Remember seeing over the offensive line is already hard enough then having to spot a small wide receiver and hit him in stride makes it even harder because they tend to be quicker

Getting a bigger Target in stride it's much easier and much more obvious to see

That slant with that big body with that timing was 100% unstoppable no matter how well covered...hell...the DB even knew it was coming half the time!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

JR and JT were "big" WR's at that time. Then came Harper and Irvin. Total mismatch for our little CB's like Eric Davis.

They were?

Yeah, in the 80's. Then again, DB's in the 80's weren't 6'3" like they are now. Deion was tall for his era. Was he 6'0"?

Originally posted by thl408:
While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.

If we did that then this place would say, "he's tall but he can't run routes."

Originally posted by thl408:

While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.

They do. They are called HOF TE's. Haha

But on the real, Kyle is always looking for that mismatch. If height and size can play into it, he'll do it...esp. from different spots on the field and specific DB matchups. Like Hurd in the slot against a 5'9" SCB.

Originally posted by Scottie15:

Well that is where top WR talent becomes key.

Josh Gordon, widely considered one of the top WRs at the time, was able to ball out with horrible QB play and rotating door of QBs.

Same goes for OBJ, or most of the top producing receivers who can overcome horrible QB play.

I agree elite WRs are important...I could also say you could throw prime Moss on that jags team last yr and he'd be pissed having to deal with Bortles throwing balls off his cleats

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scottie15:

Well that is where top WR talent becomes key.

Josh Gordon, widely considered one of the top WRs at the time, was able to ball out with horrible QB play and rotating door of QBs.

Same goes for OBJ, or most of the top producing receivers who can overcome horrible QB play.

I agree elite WRs are important...I could also say you could throw prime Moss on that jags team last yr and he'd be pissed having to deal with Bortles throwing balls off his cleats

I would have been with that!

Originally posted by FullStackDev:

Originally posted by thl408:
While we are on this topic, I always wondered why a team can't take a failed NBA player that is 6'8 with a great vertical leap, and use him as a dedicated fade route target. Good luck 6'1 CB. It just takes one coach to think outside the box.

If we did that then this place would say, "he's tall but he can't run routes."

Yeah but he'd be a goal line fade specialist. That's worth a spot on the active 46. He wouldn't be used anywhere else besides the goal line because like you said, he probably can't run routes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scottie15:
Well that is where top WR talent becomes key.

Josh Gordon, widely considered one of the top WRs at the time, was able to ball out with horrible QB play and rotating door of QBs.

Same goes for OBJ, or most of the top producing receivers who can overcome horrible QB play.

I agree elite WRs are important...I could also say you could throw prime Moss on that jags team last yr and he'd be pissed having to deal with Bortles throwing balls off his cleats

hahah so true. Same goes with Trubisky. Allen Robinson had so many catches, but none of them resulted in much yardage with noodle-arm Mitch.

Originally posted by Scottie15:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scottie15:

Well that is where top WR talent becomes key.

Josh Gordon, widely considered one of the top WRs at the time, was able to ball out with horrible QB play and rotating door of QBs.

Same goes for OBJ, or most of the top producing receivers who can overcome horrible QB play.

I agree elite WRs are important...I could also say you could throw prime Moss on that jags team last yr and he'd be pissed having to deal with Bortles throwing balls off his cleats

hahah so true. Same goes with Trubisky. Allen Robinson had so many catches, but none of them resulted in much yardage with noodle-arm Mitch.

AR12 would have 2,000 yards here under Kyle/JG. LOL

Hell, he had 750 on a team that passed the least in the NFL.

Originally posted by Scottie15:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I was just listening to the Colts GM on a radio show and he was saying how tough it is to evaluate wide receivers now because college teams are passing so much that a ton of guys have big stats. Add to that how many great receivers come from small colleges and can get overlooked sometimes. Rice, John Taylor, Owens, Antonio Brown, and Randy Moss are just a few that could have been overlooked without good scouting or dumb luck.

Great stuff here. Excellent post, especially as it pertains to small schools.

And to your point, there have been teams who have found lots of success without drafting WR high or utilizing the UDFA market. Doug Baldwin was undrafted, Victor Cruz was undrafted, Colston was drafted as TE in 7th round, and posted 6 seasons of over 1,000 yards receiving.

I think it all comes down to QB play, and scheme.

Sometimes you wonder if these guys from the small schools or who go undrafted just play harder because they have a chip on their shoulder.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I understand the X is outside the hash on the weak side...but the Z is usually off the LOS which allows for a free release

.

X lines up on the line of scrimmage so you need him to be able to get off press.

You can do this by having elite quickness for a free release, deep speed so the CB cheats, elite strength and size to just man handle the CB,or a big body to not get off press but have a good chance to catch the ball anyway.

When you think big tall "#1" receiver, you're thinking x. Doesn't really matter all too much, cus as you said, shanny wants interchangeable versatile pieces, and there's so much underneath stuff. There are plenty of big receivers who have s**tty hands, feet, and technique, and thus cannot play the X.

Originally posted by NCommand:
That slant with that big body with that timing was 100% unstoppable no matter how well covered...hell...the DB even knew it was coming half the time!

Thank you!

It was a money play!!!

Originally posted by SlowDownBoy:

Originally posted by NCommand:

That slant with that big body with that timing was 100% unstoppable no matter how well covered...hell...the DB even knew it was coming half the time!

Thank you!

It was a money play!!!

It was a thing of beauty!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

be Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
This receiver is a stud, but darnit, he's not short enough! Said no GM ever.

What has been said is "This receiver can't do anything right, but by golly, hes 6'5"!" And, "this is the best receiever ever, but too bad he's only 5'11"" . Both of those statements get those GMs fired.

I highly doubt Shanny's requirement prior to this year was for a WR to be small, and I highly doubt Bellicheck draft NKeal because he's tall.

All these threads and posts about we need a tall receiver....no we need a good receiver. Being tall can be part of why you're good, but it is not black and white like the size queens seem to think it is.

THIS!

what people don't seem to get is Kyle has parameters at the WR position. quickness (foot speed), route-running, and the ability to get some separation.

You can be big, small, fat, skinny, white, black etc....as long as you can do what he asks. Issue is most big WRs are slow/can't run routes/and are stiff. When you can find one that can do what he asks and his big....you get Julio Jones

You are both missing the ball.

I have always said big WR and route-running ability are not mutually exclusive.

Since you all have documented what Kyle looks for in a WR, that pretty much explains itself.

Well, Kyle Shanahan drafted Hurd and signed Matthews and Poindexter. Based on what you all have said about what Kyle looks for in a WR, surely he wouldn't have selected those players if they couldn't run routes right? What in fact happened is Kyle went and looked for bigger WRs (who can also run routes that satisfy and indeed qualify based on his list of criteria).

I don't care whether in your view big WRs can't run routes, but at the very least in the eyes of Kyle Shanahan, Hurd, Matthews and Poindexter can. Because if they couldn't, Kyle would have never even touched them in the first place.

Moral of the story is this, you can look for big WRs that can run routes. And as far as big WRs go, you don't have to be Julio Jones to be able to run routes.

Case closed.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

be Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
This receiver is a stud, but darnit, he's not short enough! Said no GM ever.

What has been said is "This receiver can't do anything right, but by golly, hes 6'5"!" And, "this is the best receiever ever, but too bad he's only 5'11"" . Both of those statements get those GMs fired.

I highly doubt Shanny's requirement prior to this year was for a WR to be small, and I highly doubt Bellicheck draft NKeal because he's tall.

All these threads and posts about we need a tall receiver....no we need a good receiver. Being tall can be part of why you're good, but it is not black and white like the size queens seem to think it is.

THIS!

what people don't seem to get is Kyle has parameters at the WR position. quickness (foot speed), route-running, and the ability to get some separation.

You can be big, small, fat, skinny, white, black etc....as long as you can do what he asks. Issue is most big WRs are slow/can't run routes/and are stiff. When you can find one that can do what he asks and his big....you get Julio Jones

You are both missing the ball.

I have always said big WR and route-running ability are not mutually exclusive.

Since you all have documented what Kyle looks for in a WR, that pretty much explains itself.

Well, Kyle Shanahan drafted Hurd and signed Matthews and Poindexter. Based on what you all have said about what Kyle looks for in a WR, surely he wouldn't have selected those players if they couldn't run routes right? What in fact happened is Kyle went and looked for bigger WRs (who can also run routes that satisfy and indeed qualify based on his list of criteria).

I don't care whether in your view big WRs can't run routes, but at the very least in the eyes of Kyle Shanahan, Hurd, Matthews and Poindexter can. Because if they couldn't, Kyle would have never even touched them in the first place.

Moral of the story is this, you can look for big WRs that can run routes. And as far as big WRs go, you don't have to be Julio Jones to be able to run routes.

Case closed.