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Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Maybe goodwins route should have been a straight up Vert on that play ?

no, Gacron's route indicates what Goodwin's route should be based off it. The concept beat 2 deep safety's and im not sure what the point for Garcon's route would be if Goodwin's was designed to be just a straight up GO route.
I think Goodwin is making a 'Middle of Field Closed' versus 'Middle of Field Open' read. If it's MOFC, then it's a skinny Post to avoid the middle of the field. If it's MOFO, which it is, then it's a Post route to split the two safeties, right down the middle of the field.

And even if it's a skinny post that's still a horrible throw by Hoyer, lol. How does he miss this throw so badly but then drop a dime 60 yards down the field later??
Because Goodwin ran the right route
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Maybe goodwins route should have been a straight up Vert on that play ?

no, Gacron's route indicates what Goodwin's route should be based off it. The concept beat 2 deep safety's and im not sure what the point for Garcon's route would be if Goodwin's was designed to be just a straight up GO route.
That post route leaves the safeties over the top and underneath leaving no room for error on that throw. thats why i think Hoyer through it where a vertical route would have took goodwin leaving him with only one safety covering



this route play covered earlier is perfect for a that post play as Garcon make the SS bite low


room for error? all Hoyer had to do was throw it 20 yards in front of Goodwin where only he could get it. instead he throws it right to where the Safety CAN get to it, and Goodwin has to come back. It's a MILLS concept, dude.



the second gif you reposted is a completely different concept. the second gif is the PIN concept.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182144-all22-analysis-coverages-amp-concepts/page3/search=concepts
[ Edited by defenderDX on Oct 11, 2017 at 12:39 PM ]
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
That post route leaves the safeties over the top and underneath leaving no room for error on that throw. thats why i think Hoyer through it where a vertical route would have took goodwin leaving him with only one safety covering

As the original post explained, the route combination involves a read of the backside safety--he will either come up on the dig or drop back on the post. Post vs. vertical allows Goodwin to run away from his man with tons of space heading toward the opposite sideline. Once he's behind the backside safety, he's open. On the play in question, the backside safety jumped Garcon, leaving wide open green in front of Goodwin, just as the play is designed to create (depending how the safety plays it). Hoyer should have thrown the post. Most likely he just horribly missed the throw--we've seen Kap and Alex have similar lapses in deep ball accuracy. Very frustrating.
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
That post route leaves the safeties over the top and underneath leaving no room for error on that throw. thats why i think Hoyer through it where a vertical route would have took goodwin leaving him with only one safety covering

As the original post explained, the route combination involves a read of the backside safety--he will either come up on the dig or drop back on the post. Post vs. vertical allows Goodwin to run away from his man with tons of space heading toward the opposite sideline. Once he's behind the backside safety, he's open. On the play in question, the backside safety jumped Garcon, leaving wide open green in front of Goodwin, just as the play is designed to create (depending how the safety plays it). Hoyer should have thrown the post. Most likely he just horribly missed the throw--we've seen Kap and Alex have similar lapses in deep ball accuracy. Very frustrating.
the underneath safety played back and covered it pretty well. looks like both options lead to a low % completion
Originally posted by Jmahoney1979:
During the game Spielman mentioned that Robinson was wide open in the end zone and Hoyer decided tontrhrow a swing pass to Brieda. I think it was the during the FG drive to make the score 16-9. Was Spielman right? Did Hoyer miss a wide open TD?

I think I remember that call and, from what I could see, that was one of those spots where the receiver looks at a glance like he'd been open, but the pass has already been thrown and his man is chasing the ball-carrier. Not positive though--I wouldn't mind seeing the coach's film.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
room for error? all Hoyer had to do was throw it 20 yards in front of Goodwin where only he could get it. instead he throws it right to where the Safety CAN get to it, and Goodwin has to come back. It's a MILLS concept, dude.



the second gif you reposted is a completely different concept. the second gif is the PIN concept.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182144-all22-analysis-coverages-amp-concepts/page3/search=concepts
i know it was different. I'm saying since PG ran a dig/curl route the SS backed off leaving a hard to complete pass
[ Edited by 49AllTheTime on Oct 11, 2017 at 12:51 PM ]
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
That post route leaves the safeties over the top and underneath leaving no room for error on that throw. thats why i think Hoyer through it where a vertical route would have took goodwin leaving him with only one safety covering

As the original post explained, the route combination involves a read of the backside safety--he will either come up on the dig or drop back on the post. Post vs. vertical allows Goodwin to run away from his man with tons of space heading toward the opposite sideline. Once he's behind the backside safety, he's open. On the play in question, the backside safety jumped Garcon, leaving wide open green in front of Goodwin, just as the play is designed to create (depending how the safety plays it). Hoyer should have thrown the post. Most likely he just horribly missed the throw--we've seen Kap and Alex have similar lapses in deep ball accuracy. Very frustrating.
the underneath safety played back and covered it pretty well. looks like both options lead to a low % completion

Check it again. The safety in the middle of the field stops backpedaling; he's sitting on Garcon's underneath in. Goodwin's route, especially with his speed, is going to carry him way over the top of that guy, who's flat-footed watching Garcon and the QB. The only defender who's going to be in Goodwin's area is his man #21 (Vontae I think).
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Maybe goodwins route should have been a straight up Vert on that play ?

no, Gacron's route indicates what Goodwin's route should be based off it. The concept beat 2 deep safety's and im not sure what the point for Garcon's route would be if Goodwin's was designed to be just a straight up GO route.
I think Goodwin is making a 'Middle of Field Closed' versus 'Middle of Field Open' read. If it's MOFC, then it's a skinny Post to avoid the middle of the field. If it's MOFO, which it is, then it's a Post route to split the two safeties, right down the middle of the field.

that would explain the miss communication
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
room for error? all Hoyer had to do was throw it 20 yards in front of Goodwin where only he could get it. instead he throws it right to where the Safety CAN get to it, and Goodwin has to come back. It's a MILLS concept, dude.



the second gif you reposted is a completely different concept. the second gif is the PIN concept.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182144-all22-analysis-coverages-amp-concepts/page3/search=concepts
i know it was different. I'm saying since PG ran a dig/curl route the SS backed off leaving a hard to complete pass

wouldve been fine had hoyer lead goodwin like he was supposed to
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here's the first big play opportunity we missed in the game. It was 12:23 in the 2nd QTR.



here I've highlighted the area of vertical stretch as you'll see all the routes will cross this line at different depths. 3 on 2 stretch.


Great analysis! I like this pic best as it exemplifies the concept and what it is trying to accomplish, 3 routes stretching 2 defenders vertically in the middle column of the field... QB reads top to bottom post to dig to drag a combo that has been around for 50 years at least and still works! QB is taught to stare at the FS and often times an aggressive safety will get sucked in like this one did here and try to smack the dig route and not notice post flying by him... the route concept worked great, just poorly executed
[ Edited by riverrunzthruit on Oct 11, 2017 at 1:09 PM ]

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
room for error? all Hoyer had to do was throw it 20 yards in front of Goodwin where only he could get it. instead he throws it right to where the Safety CAN get to it, and Goodwin has to come back. It's a MILLS concept, dude.



the second gif you reposted is a completely different concept. the second gif is the PIN concept.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182144-all22-analysis-coverages-amp-concepts/page3/search=concepts
i know it was different. I'm saying since PG ran a dig/curl route the SS backed off leaving a hard to complete pass

The concept is vertical stretch, this combo is a quarters coverage beater...
Originally posted by Niners816:
I posted this over in the Kyle thread, but that thread is just about b***hing about a guy 5 games into his career.....this post belongs here

I love the little wrinkle of having the second TE drag against the flow and create a mesh situation.

I apologize if this is way out of sequence.

Originally posted by Niners816:

I watched the play again and it had a wrinkle to it. Celek chipped and then ran a drag. This added a little mesh action to this play.

Just a variant of the flood combo IMO, vertical stretch of the outside column
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 20,981
Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Originally posted by Jmahoney1979:
During the game Spielman mentioned that Robinson was wide open in the end zone and Hoyer decided tontrhrow a swing pass to Brieda. I think it was the during the FG drive to make the score 16-9. Was Spielman right? Did Hoyer miss a wide open TD?

I think I remember that call and, from what I could see, that was one of those spots where the receiver looks at a glance like he'd been open, but the pass has already been thrown and his man is chasing the ball-carrier. Not positive though--I wouldn't mind seeing the coach's film.
The WR was open but there was pressure coming right up the middle. Hoyer threw hot (Brieda). One more split second and I think Hoyer sees the WR. I'll post this play tonight. It was a blown coverage by IND.
i love your posts
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
room for error? all Hoyer had to do was throw it 20 yards in front of Goodwin where only he could get it. instead he throws it right to where the Safety CAN get to it, and Goodwin has to come back. It's a MILLS concept, dude.



the second gif you reposted is a completely different concept. the second gif is the PIN concept.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/182144-all22-analysis-coverages-amp-concepts/page3/search=concepts
i know it was different. I'm saying since PG ran a dig/curl route the SS backed off leaving a hard to complete pass

The concept is vertical stretch, this combo is a quarters coverage beater...
It works against both cover 4 and cover 2. Primarily used as a cover 4 beater it can be used to defeat a cover 2 zone - which they were in. Against the cover 4 you read the playside safety, against cover 2 backside safety to see how you'll throw that post. Skinny, normal or flatter.
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