Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by Niners816:
I posted this over in the Kyle thread, but that thread is just about b***hing about a guy 5 games into his career.....this post belongs here

I love the little wrinkle of having the second TE drag against the flow and create a mesh situation.

I apologize if this is way out of sequence.

Originally posted by Niners816:

I watched the play again and it had a wrinkle to it. Celek chipped and then ran a drag. This added a little mesh action to this play.

Just a variant of the flood combo IMO, vertical stretch of the outside column

well, it's a slide concept which is a little different. The slide is it's own because you run play action opposite the direction of your routes. It's not a true flood because your backside crosser won't threaten the 1/3 side of the field until late in the play - the ball should be out before then. Your slide concept is more of a triangle stretch with horizontal action than a real "flood".

Another version is the "waggle" where you run PA towards the route side with a bootleg out that direction.

Originally posted by RonMexico:
i love your posts

thanks

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by Niners816:

I posted this over in the Kyle thread, but that thread is just about b***hing about a guy 5 games into his career.....this post belongs here

I love the little wrinkle of having the second TE drag against the flow and create a mesh situation.

I apologize if this is way out of sequence.

Originally posted by Niners816:

I watched the play again and it had a wrinkle to it. Celek chipped and then ran a drag. This added a little mesh action to this play.

Just a variant of the flood combo IMO, vertical stretch of the outside column

well, it's a slide concept which is a little different. The slide is it's own because you run play action opposite the direction of your routes. It's not a true flood because your backside crosser won't threaten the 1/3 side of the field until late in the play - the ball should be out before then. Your slide concept is more of a triangle stretch with horizontal action than a real "flood".

Another version is the "waggle" where you run PA towards the route side with a bootleg out that direction.

The play posted below kinda captures what's happening.....in our play except our outside WR ran a drag. But strong side is pretty much what we did.

What Gruden explains in his "Spider y banana" plays are TE on a Corner, FB to the flat and a WR from the backside running a shallow cross/drag and it involves playaction. The above variant adds the online TE running a chip and drag against grains. I guess technically it wouldn't be spider Y Banana It would be U Banana or whatever Kyle calls his second TE.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
well, it's a slide concept which is a little different. The slide is it's own because you run play action opposite the direction of your routes. It's not a true flood because your backside crosser won't threaten the 1/3 side of the field until late in the play - the ball should be out before then. Your slide concept is more of a triangle stretch with horizontal action than a real "flood".

Another version is the "waggle" where you run PA towards the route side with a bootleg out that direction.

Originally posted by Jmahoney1979:
During the game Spielman mentioned that Robinson was wide open in the end zone and Hoyer decided tontrhrow a swing pass to Brieda. I think it was the during the FG drive to make the score 16-9. Was Spielman right? Did Hoyer miss a wide open TD?

It took me a while to find it but I did. Yeah, we had a guy WIDE open. BUUUUUUTTT, it wasn't on a FG drive. It was the final drive of the 4th qtr where we scored a TD anyway so it didn't cost us in the game at all. In fact, if we score the TD early it might not even make it to overtime.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by Niners816:
I posted this over in the Kyle thread, but that thread is just about b***hing about a guy 5 games into his career.....this post belongs here

I love the little wrinkle of having the second TE drag against the flow and create a mesh situation.

I apologize if this is way out of sequence.

Originally posted by Niners816:
I watched the play again and it had a wrinkle to it. Celek chipped and then ran a drag. This added a little mesh action to this play.

Just a variant of the flood combo IMO, vertical stretch of the outside column

well, it's a slide concept which is a little different. The slide is it's own because you run play action opposite the direction of your routes. It's not a true flood because your backside crosser won't threaten the 1/3 side of the field until late in the play - the ball should be out before then. Your slide concept is more of a triangle stretch with horizontal action than a real "flood".

Another version is the "waggle" where you run PA towards the route side with a bootleg out that direction.

The play posted below kinda captures what's happening.....in our play except our outside WR ran a drag. But strong side is pretty much what we did.

What Gruden explains in his "Spider y banana" plays are TE on a Corner, FB to the flat and a WR from the backside running a shallow cross/drag and it involves playaction. The above variant adds the online TE running a chip and drag against grains. I guess technically it wouldn't be spider Y Banana It would be U Banana or whatever Kyle calls his second TE.

He's run a few variants. I saw a spider 2 "X" banana in the last game. We ran the same play but the "X" ran the banana.

If you're lost in the verbiage, the "banana" is just another name for a corner route cause it's shaped like a banana.

here's Gruden explaining this play - it's nearly identical to ours except we have a "U" instead of a "Z" and our "U" runs a more shallow route than Gruden. Other than that, same exact play.

It's funny how Gruden says, "we're not even going to consider the TE on this play. In fact, he's an alert, IF that corner peeks in the backfield, but it better be a clean release." Which Kittles got.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It works against both cover 4 and cover 2. Primarily used as a cover 4 beater it can be used to defeat a cover 2 zone - which they were in. Against the cover 4 you read the playside safety, against cover 2 backside safety to see how you'll throw that post. Skinny, normal or flatter.

It can work against C2, but it is great against C4 IMO... the safety in quarters has #2 (the #2 receiver from the coverage perspective not the #2 combo progression), so if he bites up on the stop the post vacates his position, puts the corner in a bind because it puts his quarters coverage rules in conflict as he wants to pass off the deep route to the safety, should have added qb reads top to bottom

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It works against both cover 4 and cover 2. Primarily used as a cover 4 beater it can be used to defeat a cover 2 zone - which they were in. Against the cover 4 you read the playside safety, against cover 2 backside safety to see how you'll throw that post. Skinny, normal or flatter.

It can work against C2, but it is great against C4 IMO... the safety in quarters has #2 (the #2 receiver from the coverage perspective not the #2 combo progression), so if he bites up on the stop the post vacates his position, puts the corner in a bind because it puts his quarters coverage rules in conflict as he wants to pass off the deep route to the safety

Sure. I agree, it's best against a cover 4. I guess, either way it's not as much the point as it is that the play design won and we missed the play.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Sure. I agree, it's best against a cover 4. I guess, either way it's not as much the point as it is that the play design won and we missed the play.

you bet! frustrating to watch Hoyer, sometimes he is just nails with his decision making, other times its a total head scratcher what he is trying to do... just fun talking ball with you all

Originally posted by jonnydel:

He's run a few variants. I saw a spider 2 "X" banana in the last game. We ran the same play but the "X" ran the banana.

If you're lost in the verbiage, the "banana" is just another name for a corner route cause it's shaped like a banana.

here's Gruden explaining this play - it's nearly identical to ours except we have a "U" instead of a "Z" and our "U" runs a more shallow route than Gruden. Other than that, same exact play.

It's funny how Gruden says, "we're not even going to consider the TE on this play. In fact, he's an alert, IF that corner peeks in the backfield, but it better be a clean release." Which Kittles got.

It is funny about the TE because all play art I've seen with a banana in it has listed as second in the progression.

In our play I'm sure it something like X drag-Y delay- U banana.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It works against both cover 4 and cover 2. Primarily used as a cover 4 beater it can be used to defeat a cover 2 zone - which they were in. Against the cover 4 you read the playside safety, against cover 2 backside safety to see how you'll throw that post. Skinny, normal or flatter.

It can work against C2, but it is great against C4 IMO... the safety in quarters has #2 (the #2 receiver from the coverage perspective not the #2 combo progression), so if he bites up on the stop the post vacates his position, puts the corner in a bind because it puts his quarters coverage rules in conflict as he wants to pass off the deep route to the safety, should have added qb reads top to bottom

Just say you guys agree already .

Here it is busting Quarters. As soon as the the safety matches the #2 WR, because that's what Quarters safeties are taught (match #2 if vertical), #1 has room to work the Post.

This play had me upset...not gonna lie....



Indy had a penalty down in the RZ and then we held up well on the next 2 plays holding them to 5 yards. So, it's 3rd and 15 from the 17 yard line. What does Saleh do? he backs everyone up to the 1st down marker. This is playing not to lose, not playing to win. He did this 3 times in this game and I feel like it might have cost us the win.

Side note, this was one of the 2 series in which Bow was off the field that I saw and we gave up 10 points in those 2 series alone. He makes a difference on the field.



Indy motions a receiver across and Williams, Tartt and Jerome all seem a little confused at the snap trying to get in the correct position - why y'all moving around? It's 3rd and 15 and all of you are at the line to gain.....don't make no sense to me.



Here's what I hate about lining everyone up that deep from the get go. All they do is run a simple dive play. Indy is playing for the FG for friggin good greif sake....

Yet, because our guys are all so deep by the time they hand the ball off we don't have anyone other than our 4 lineman within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.



Because our guys are so far off the line it's created huge holes to fill as both our DT's get doubled. So, with huge holes everyone tries to fill them because they're so far away no one knows who's gap is who's.



Because of the huge hole everyone tried to fill inside and it left only RR outside the hash... Mack stops and heads outside....uh oh's....



all those guys trying to fill inside....not good, people....not good....



well....shoot.....



Then all those guys got to do is get him on the ground before the 2 yard line....how does he stiff arm 2 of our guys????!!!!???

If this is a FG instead, we win this game......

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It works against both cover 4 and cover 2. Primarily used as a cover 4 beater it can be used to defeat a cover 2 zone - which they were in. Against the cover 4 you read the playside safety, against cover 2 backside safety to see how you'll throw that post. Skinny, normal or flatter.

It can work against C2, but it is great against C4 IMO... the safety in quarters has #2 (the #2 receiver from the coverage perspective not the #2 combo progression), so if he bites up on the stop the post vacates his position, puts the corner in a bind because it puts his quarters coverage rules in conflict as he wants to pass off the deep route to the safety, should have added qb reads top to bottom

Just say you guys agree already .

Here it is busting Quarters. As soon as the the safety matches the #2 WR, because that's what Quarters safeties are taught (match #2 if vertical), #1 has room to work the Post.

Oh yeah, and it beats cover 6 like this too!!

Originally posted by jonnydel:
This play had me upset...not gonna lie....



Indy had a penalty down in the RZ and then we held up well on the next 2 plays holding them to 5 yards. So, it's 3rd and 15 from the 17 yard line. What does Saleh do? he backs everyone up to the 1st down marker. This is playing not to lose, not playing to win. He did this 3 times in this game and I feel like it might have cost us the win.

Side note, this was one of the 2 series in which Bow was off the field that I saw and we gave up 10 points in those 2 series alone. He makes a difference on the field.



Indy motions a receiver across and Williams, Tartt and Jerome all seem a little confused at the snap trying to get in the correct position - why y'all moving around? It's 3rd and 15 and all of you are at the line to gain.....don't make no sense to me.



Here's what I hate about lining everyone up that deep from the get go. All they do is run a simple dive play. Indy is playing for the FG for friggin good greif sake....

Yet, because our guys are all so deep by the time they hand the ball off we don't have anyone other than our 4 lineman within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.



Because our guys are so far off the line it's created huge holes to fill as both our DT's get doubled. So, with huge holes everyone tries to fill them because they're so far away no one knows who's gap is who's.



Because of the huge hole everyone tried to fill inside and it left only RR outside the hash... Mack stops and heads outside....uh oh's....



all those guys trying to fill inside....not good, people....not good....



well....shoot.....



Then all those guys got to do is get him on the ground before the 2 yard line....how does he stiff arm 2 of our guys????!!!!???

If this is a FG instead, we win this game......

He's a rookie...that's not an excuse by the way...I want him replaced

Originally posted by jonnydel:
This play had me upset...not gonna lie....

Indy had a penalty down in the RZ and then we held up well on the next 2 plays holding them to 5 yards. So, it's 3rd and 15 from the 17 yard line. What does Saleh do? he backs everyone up to the 1st down marker. This is playing not to lose, not playing to win. He did this 3 times in this game and I feel like it might have cost us the win.

Side note, this was one of the 2 series in which Bow was off the field that I saw and we gave up 10 points in those 2 series alone. He makes a difference on the field.

Indy motions a receiver across and Williams, Tartt and Jerome all seem a little confused at the snap trying to get in the correct position - why y'all moving around? It's 3rd and 15 and all of you are at the line to gain.....don't make no sense to me.

Here's what I hate about lining everyone up that deep from the get go. All they do is run a simple dive play. Indy is playing for the FG for friggin good greif sake....

Yet, because our guys are all so deep by the time they hand the ball off we don't have anyone other than our 4 lineman within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage.

Because our guys are so far off the line it's created huge holes to fill as both our DT's get doubled. So, with huge holes everyone tries to fill them because they're so far away no one knows who's gap is who's.

Because of the huge hole everyone tried to fill inside and it left only RR outside the hash... Mack stops and heads outside....uh oh's....



all those guys trying to fill inside....not good, people....not good....



well....shoot.....
Then all those guys got to do is get him on the ground before the 2 yard line....how does he stiff arm 2 of our guys????!!!!???

If this is a FG instead, we win this game......

This play pissed us all off I'm sure. 3rd & 15 and they convert on a handoff up the middle. IND wasn't even trying to convert and was ready to bring on the FG unit. RRobinson as an open field tackler remains to be an adventure. At this point in the game (3rd quarter), I think KW and DJ had been victimized by Mack's quickness. RR had to have known that Mack is capable of bouncing outside, and should have taken a more conservative angle to force Mack back towards the middle.