D-Line Analysis | Page 4 | 49ers Webzone Forum

Karma · 2017-06-05T11:53:05-07:00

I thought it might be interesting to set up threads to examine each position group. With the complete overhaul of our roster, scheme, and coaches, it can be difficult to keep up with all of the intriguing position battles and ever-changing depth chart. With that in mind, I thought I would start with the deepest group on the team. We have spent more draft capital on this position group in the last three years but the results have been mixed. Scheme Change: We are currently shifting from a base 3-4 alignment to a 4-3 hybrid defense. Much has been written here about the change, so I won't try to re-evaluate the scheme. Ultimately, this scheme will allow our defensive linemen to focus on penetrating and disrupting without having to read and react. THe four positions along the line are: LEO, Nose Tackle, Defensive Tackle, Defensive End. Roster: LEO: Arik Armstead, Aaron Lynch, Ronald Blair, Pita Taumoepenu, Noble Nwachukwu (Ahmad Brooks and Eli Harold may get a look, but right now they are slated as SAM linebackers) NT: Earl Mitchell, Quinton Dial, D.J. Jones, Chris Jones DT: DeForest Buckner, Arik Armstead, Solomon Thomas, Chris Jones DE: Solomon Thomas, Tank Carradine, Ronald Blair Analysis: While LEO remains the biggest question mark, this position group is so stacked that some quality players aren't going to make the roster. Starting with LEO, Arik Armstead is getting the first crack at the job. Armstead finds himself position-less for the time being because of the talent in front of him. While having his size at the LEO is exciting, especially when it comes to stopping the run, I don't see him as the pass rushing monster ideally suited to this position. I think AA will end up floating along the line and become part of a really strong rotation. Aaron Lynch fits the LEO description perfectly, if he is healthy and in shape. He has the bend, motor, and array of moves to take this job and run with it. His biggest obstacle will be himself. If Saleh can keep him motivated, he could be exactly what this defense needs. I think Saleh will get him there. It will be up to lynch to stay there in the years to come. Ronald Blair is the dark horse here. He is no where near as athletically gifted as the other two, but he is a true technician who was mis-cast as a 3-4 DE. He has the kind of motor ands work ethic that could see him surpass Lynch if Lynch becomes lackadaisical. As for Pita and Noble, they both have tremendous speed for the position, but strength, size, and experience will be their hurdles. I think Pita has an outside shot at the roster, but both of them need at least a year of development before they will be able to make an impact. Nose Tackle will be a different position than it has been in the 3-4. This defense calls for more versatility from this position. In the 3-4, we wanted a giant who could constantly take on double teams and hold his ground. This defense will require a guy who can do that occasionally, but who can also get up field and make plays. Earl Mitchell was brought in at the start of Free Agency to solidify this position. Mitchell certainly won't be the most talented player on the field in any alignment, but he will be a leader for the young guys. Mitchell's job will be to know his assignment, captain the line when he is on the field, and take advantage of mismatches created by teams focusing on Buckner, Thomas, or others. I anticipate he will be solid and unspectacular. Quinton Dial is a similar player with more size. I'm actually really excited to see what he can do in this new scheme. In his career, Dial has been a guy who could hold up blocks well and rely on his work ethic. D.J. Jones will be the most interesting member of this group to watch. He has the size, low center of gravity, and explosion to some day be the starter here. He may even get some work at DT if there are injuries. Chris Jones is the OTAs standout thus far. He is a veteran who works hard and knows he has to produce every day or he is back on the street. He'll get a look at every position and will put pressure on everybody to keep improving. You've got to love guys like him. Defensive Tackle should be the most disruptive position. DeForest Buckner could play just about anywhere on this line and be successful. Saleh has slotted him here and it should be a perfect fit. Buckner proved to be a force last year from the 3-4 DE spot, so giving him the chance to focus on penetrating rather than read and react should be a huge win for this defense. In obvious passing downs, Solomon Thomas could kick inside with him, but Buckner will get the majority of time here. Armstead also figures to get a few reps here as he moves along the line as the "super-sub" that I predict him to be. THe other guys would only get time here if there are major injuries. Defensive End will probably see a lot of rotation. This spot is tailor made for Solomon Thomas. It requires a player who can push the pocket, pressure the QB, and set the edge in the run game. Thomas' blend of strength, size, and speed fit perfectly. Thomas is the kind of player who will keep opposing defenses from always doubling Buckner or the LEO. That said, Thomas is a rookie and shouldn't be depended on to take all the snaps. Carradine, like Blair, was mis-cast as a 3-4 DE and then OLB. He could really shine in a back-up role here if he hasn't been ruined by all of the position changes he has gone through. Hopefully he is using OTAs to make a statement before Thomas is out of school. If not, Carradine could easily be the odd man out. Armstead and Blair will also have the opportunity to get some rotational reps here if they prove their value. Ultimately, the success of this position group will depend on Saleh's ability to put these guys in the best position to succeed and manages the rotation in a way that maximizes rest and continuity. Not an easy feat. I will focus on the Offensive Line in the next thread. Let me know what you think of my assessment or if I forgot something.

Jun 7, 2017 at 12:59 PM

#46

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by Buchy:
The camp battle is going to be fierce, would have loved to have seen a Hard Knocks although it obviously couldn't happen, though I have a small hope that maybe "All or Nothing" are secretly covering us with the angle of new coach and organization to see how that works - unlikely though as that would be three NFC West teams.

Anyway, I think on the DLine we're likely looking at the following being cut or traded:

Dial - solid player but I don't think he is suited to the new scheme.
Chris Jones - Played well for us last season and another good player, I think he's likely a casualty of the new regime and younger draft picks.
Tank Carradine - just not shown enough and again I think will be a casualty of the fact that it's a new regime and he isn't one of their guys.
Noble Nwakchu - I think he goes to PS

I think we keep:

Thomas
Buckner
Armstead
Mitchell
Blair
DJ Jones
Dumervill
Pita Taumoepenu
(Lynch)

I think Lynch is on the bubble, not because of his ability but because of his attitude. Coming into camp with a brand new coaching regime in a contract year in less than perfect physical shape is an issue to me. I worry that giving him a big contract results in a future lack of motivation.

Having said that, I think we keep Lynch and roll with 9 DLine as we want more rotation which likely means we sacrifice in another positional group.

Note: I think Harold will be playing at SAM.

Don't sleep on Chris Jones yet, he might make the roster over Pita and Pita goes to PS. Pita is raw and would take him a year or two to develop, he's still new to football and not ready for a roster spot. Dumervill will be the situational pass rusher now where Pita was going to be.

IMO Pita should go to the IR with a designated to return tag(now you can have 2 players to do so instead of 1) to give him more time and that way we're not forced to make a premature cut. I believe only three of four will make it out of Dial,Chris Jones,Blair and DJ Jones.

We need to make a trade on our DL and TE groups.

Jun 7, 2017 at 1:23 PM

#47

PacTiger
Member
Posts: 30,146

Just my 2 cents, AA, Chris Jones and Ronald Blair will sub in the strong side DE and both DT spots in rotations, all three of those guys can play all 3 positions.

Here is my starting projected 4.

SDE - Thomas
DT - Defo
NT - Mitchell
Leo - Dumervil (assuming he is healthy)

DJ Jones subs in at NT or not suit up.

Edge rushers in rotation are

lynch, Blair, pita and maybe Brooks. I can easily see lynch and dumervil nearly getting equal number of snaps.

Out of this Blair or pita gets cut to stay under 9 unless pita is depth at Sam too. That's one way around the numbers.

[ Edited by PacTiger on Jun 7, 2017 at 1:28 PM ]

Jun 7, 2017 at 1:36 PM

#48

PacTiger
Member
Posts: 30,146

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Originally posted by Buchy:
The camp battle is going to be fierce, would have loved to have seen a Hard Knocks although it obviously couldn't happen, though I have a small hope that maybe "All or Nothing" are secretly covering us with the angle of new coach and organization to see how that works - unlikely though as that would be three NFC West teams.

Anyway, I think on the DLine we're likely looking at the following being cut or traded:

Dial - solid player but I don't think he is suited to the new scheme.
Chris Jones - Played well for us last season and another good player, I think he's likely a casualty of the new regime and younger draft picks.
Tank Carradine - just not shown enough and again I think will be a casualty of the fact that it's a new regime and he isn't one of their guys.
Noble Nwakchu - I think he goes to PS

I think we keep:

Thomas
Buckner
Armstead
Mitchell
Blair
DJ Jones
Dumervill
Pita Taumoepenu
(Lynch)

I think Lynch is on the bubble, not because of his ability but because of his attitude. Coming into camp with a brand new coaching regime in a contract year in less than perfect physical shape is an issue to me. I worry that giving him a big contract results in a future lack of motivation.

Having said that, I think we keep Lynch and roll with 9 DLine as we want more rotation which likely means we sacrifice in another positional group.

Note: I think Harold will be playing at SAM.

Don't sleep on Chris Jones yet, he might make the roster over Pita and Pita goes to PS. Pita is raw and would take him a year or two to develop, he's still new to football and not ready for a roster spot. Dumervill will be the situational pass rusher now where Pita was going to be.

IMO Pita should go to the IR with a designated to return tag(now you can have 2 players to do so instead of 1) to give him more time and that way we're not forced to make a premature cut. I believe only three of four will make it out of Dial,Chris Jones,Blair and DJ Jones.

We need to make a trade on our DL and TE groups.

C Jones was a FA and shannylynch signed him. Guys like dial and Blair are further out of the door than Chris Jones.

My PS candidates include dj jones and pita. Both might get ripped by another team but I can see a future for both here.

Jun 7, 2017 at 2:03 PM

#49

Heroism
Veteran
Posts: 26,501

Originally posted by PacTiger:
Guys like dial and Blair are further out of the door than Chris Jones.

This has to be a joke Lol. Blair is a much better player than both of those guys. Dial is almost exclusively a two-gapper, and Chris Jones is nothing more than a role player off the bench.

Blair has starter potential in this league. Explosive get off with long arms and violent hands and a motor that runs red hot. He racked up 3 sacks with very limited snaps. Blair ain't going nowhere.

[ Edited by Heroism on Jun 7, 2017 at 2:07 PM ]

Jun 7, 2017 at 2:14 PM

#50

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

Jones got a minimum deal too with next to nothing guaranteed as well.

Jun 7, 2017 at 2:39 PM

#51

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by PacTiger:
Guys like dial and Blair are further out of the door than Chris Jones.

This has to be a joke Lol. Blair is a much better player than both of those guys. Dial is almost exclusively a two-gapper, and Chris Jones is nothing more than a role player off the bench.

Blair has starter potential in this league. Explosive get off with long arms and violent hands and a motor that runs red hot. He racked up 3 sacks with very limited snaps. Blair ain't going nowhere.

Thomas and Blair at the 3T at constant rotation there would just give that C/LG nightmares.

Jun 7, 2017 at 2:56 PM

#52

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by PacTiger:
Guys like dial and Blair are further out of the door than Chris Jones.

This has to be a joke Lol. Blair is a much better player than both of those guys. Dial is almost exclusively a two-gapper, and Chris Jones is nothing more than a role player off the bench.

Blair has starter potential in this league. Explosive get off with long arms and violent hands and a motor that runs red hot. He racked up 3 sacks with very limited snaps. Blair ain't going nowhere.

Thomas and Blair at the 3T at constant rotation there would just give that C/LG nightmares.

We should feel bad for Blair who is in such a ferocious competition. Honestly, we have so much depth at DL that I wouldn't mind putting DJ Jones on IR with designated to return(thinking Pita as well,you're allowed 2 players now) and keeping Carradine until week 8 or so where you see where things stand.

Jun 7, 2017 at 3:04 PM

#53

GoldenGateGlory
Veteran
Posts: 1,503

We can't play everybody.

Jun 7, 2017 at 3:07 PM

#54

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:
We can't play everybody.

Yes we can and yes we will.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/188062-defensive-coordinator-robert-saleh/page105/#Post1564

Jun 7, 2017 at 3:10 PM

#55

DonnieDarko
Veteran
Posts: 66,641

best d-line in the league

Jun 7, 2017 at 4:10 PM

#56

PacTiger
Member
Posts: 30,146

Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by PacTiger:
Guys like dial and Blair are further out of the door than Chris Jones.

This has to be a joke Lol. Blair is a much better player than both of those guys. Dial is almost exclusively a two-gapper, and Chris Jones is nothing more than a role player off the bench.

Blair has starter potential in this league. Explosive get off with long arms and violent hands and a motor that runs red hot. He racked up 3 sacks with very limited snaps. Blair ain't going nowhere.

I'm not saying Blair is a bad player, I like him and I have him making the roster. We're going to cut someone good off of the DL. Name 9 DL including Leo's. Someone getting cut.

Jun 7, 2017 at 4:28 PM

#57

SofaKing
Veteran
Posts: 27,442

Originally posted by PacTiger:
I'm not saying Blair is a bad player, I like him and I have him making the roster. We're going to cut someone good off of the DL. Name 9 DL including Leo's. Someone getting cut.

Yup. 13 players on the DL right now, we'll end up keeping 8 or 9. Biggest longshot is Noble Nwachukwu. After him you got 3 or 4 decent players/prospects who are going to be cut.

DeForest Buckner
Solomon Thomas
Earl Mitchell
Arik Armstead
Aaron Lynch
Elvis Dumervil
Quinton Dial
Tank Carradine
Ronald Blair
Pita T
Chris Jones
DJ Jones
Noble Nwachukwu

Gonna have to make some tough cuts. This is the deepest unit on the team, especially if DJ Jones and Pita T show enough to earn a spot on the 53.. I think Dumervil is highly probably to make the 53, so that pushes another player off.

Jun 7, 2017 at 6:48 PM

#58

GoldenGateGlory
Veteran
Posts: 1,503

Lets go with a 13 man Defensive Line. At least they will be refreshed

Jun 8, 2017 at 3:34 AM

#59

Big_Daddy
Veteran
Posts: 1,808

Wanted a NT for our 3-4 for years, never got one

Switching to 4-3. Now we get a NT.

Niners gon Niners

Jun 8, 2017 at 3:55 AM

#60

Buchy
Veteran
Posts: 2,836

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:
Don't sleep on Chris Jones yet, he might make the roster over Pita and Pita goes to PS. Pita is raw and would take him a year or two to develop, he's still new to football and not ready for a roster spot. Dumervill will be the situational pass rusher now where Pita was going to be.

Very possible. They seem to like Jones. I like him better than Dial actually and this would certainly be a way to keep all extra DL at the expense of pass rush.

I wouldn't be shocked, but I'm sure I read that the staff were pretty high on Pita and part of the benefit in bringing in Elvis was training him up - they may not risk him being claimed off waivers, but I could see a mystery hangnail and IR.

Edit: I wouldn't put too much weight into keeping guys that were signed to minimum deals prior to the draft, that's just good management by having something in the cupboard before you go shopping in the draft. It doesn't mean they are preferred for the 53.

[ Edited by Buchy on Jun 8, 2017 at 3:57 AM ]