D-Line Analysis | Page 6 | 49ers Webzone Forum

Karma · 2017-06-05T11:53:05-07:00

I thought it might be interesting to set up threads to examine each position group. With the complete overhaul of our roster, scheme, and coaches, it can be difficult to keep up with all of the intriguing position battles and ever-changing depth chart. With that in mind, I thought I would start with the deepest group on the team. We have spent more draft capital on this position group in the last three years but the results have been mixed. Scheme Change: We are currently shifting from a base 3-4 alignment to a 4-3 hybrid defense. Much has been written here about the change, so I won't try to re-evaluate the scheme. Ultimately, this scheme will allow our defensive linemen to focus on penetrating and disrupting without having to read and react. THe four positions along the line are: LEO, Nose Tackle, Defensive Tackle, Defensive End. Roster: LEO: Arik Armstead, Aaron Lynch, Ronald Blair, Pita Taumoepenu, Noble Nwachukwu (Ahmad Brooks and Eli Harold may get a look, but right now they are slated as SAM linebackers) NT: Earl Mitchell, Quinton Dial, D.J. Jones, Chris Jones DT: DeForest Buckner, Arik Armstead, Solomon Thomas, Chris Jones DE: Solomon Thomas, Tank Carradine, Ronald Blair Analysis: While LEO remains the biggest question mark, this position group is so stacked that some quality players aren't going to make the roster. Starting with LEO, Arik Armstead is getting the first crack at the job. Armstead finds himself position-less for the time being because of the talent in front of him. While having his size at the LEO is exciting, especially when it comes to stopping the run, I don't see him as the pass rushing monster ideally suited to this position. I think AA will end up floating along the line and become part of a really strong rotation. Aaron Lynch fits the LEO description perfectly, if he is healthy and in shape. He has the bend, motor, and array of moves to take this job and run with it. His biggest obstacle will be himself. If Saleh can keep him motivated, he could be exactly what this defense needs. I think Saleh will get him there. It will be up to lynch to stay there in the years to come. Ronald Blair is the dark horse here. He is no where near as athletically gifted as the other two, but he is a true technician who was mis-cast as a 3-4 DE. He has the kind of motor ands work ethic that could see him surpass Lynch if Lynch becomes lackadaisical. As for Pita and Noble, they both have tremendous speed for the position, but strength, size, and experience will be their hurdles. I think Pita has an outside shot at the roster, but both of them need at least a year of development before they will be able to make an impact. Nose Tackle will be a different position than it has been in the 3-4. This defense calls for more versatility from this position. In the 3-4, we wanted a giant who could constantly take on double teams and hold his ground. This defense will require a guy who can do that occasionally, but who can also get up field and make plays. Earl Mitchell was brought in at the start of Free Agency to solidify this position. Mitchell certainly won't be the most talented player on the field in any alignment, but he will be a leader for the young guys. Mitchell's job will be to know his assignment, captain the line when he is on the field, and take advantage of mismatches created by teams focusing on Buckner, Thomas, or others. I anticipate he will be solid and unspectacular. Quinton Dial is a similar player with more size. I'm actually really excited to see what he can do in this new scheme. In his career, Dial has been a guy who could hold up blocks well and rely on his work ethic. D.J. Jones will be the most interesting member of this group to watch. He has the size, low center of gravity, and explosion to some day be the starter here. He may even get some work at DT if there are injuries. Chris Jones is the OTAs standout thus far. He is a veteran who works hard and knows he has to produce every day or he is back on the street. He'll get a look at every position and will put pressure on everybody to keep improving. You've got to love guys like him. Defensive Tackle should be the most disruptive position. DeForest Buckner could play just about anywhere on this line and be successful. Saleh has slotted him here and it should be a perfect fit. Buckner proved to be a force last year from the 3-4 DE spot, so giving him the chance to focus on penetrating rather than read and react should be a huge win for this defense. In obvious passing downs, Solomon Thomas could kick inside with him, but Buckner will get the majority of time here. Armstead also figures to get a few reps here as he moves along the line as the "super-sub" that I predict him to be. THe other guys would only get time here if there are major injuries. Defensive End will probably see a lot of rotation. This spot is tailor made for Solomon Thomas. It requires a player who can push the pocket, pressure the QB, and set the edge in the run game. Thomas' blend of strength, size, and speed fit perfectly. Thomas is the kind of player who will keep opposing defenses from always doubling Buckner or the LEO. That said, Thomas is a rookie and shouldn't be depended on to take all the snaps. Carradine, like Blair, was mis-cast as a 3-4 DE and then OLB. He could really shine in a back-up role here if he hasn't been ruined by all of the position changes he has gone through. Hopefully he is using OTAs to make a statement before Thomas is out of school. If not, Carradine could easily be the odd man out. Armstead and Blair will also have the opportunity to get some rotational reps here if they prove their value. Ultimately, the success of this position group will depend on Saleh's ability to put these guys in the best position to succeed and manages the rotation in a way that maximizes rest and continuity. Not an easy feat. I will focus on the Offensive Line in the next thread. Let me know what you think of my assessment or if I forgot something.

Jun 9, 2017 at 12:15 PM

#76

reasonable1
Veteran
Posts: 1,894

Dial and Red Bryant are similar style players...Bryant is a bit quicker off the ball. But even having said that we've never seen Dial in an attack style defense. When he was allowed to attack the LOS he looked like a late round steal.

I highly doubt he gets cut...he has just as much versatility as anyone on that D-line

Jun 9, 2017 at 12:34 PM

#77

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by reasonable1:
Dial and Red Bryant are similar style players...Bryant is a bit quicker off the ball. But even having said that we've never seen Dial in an attack style defense. When he was allowed to attack the LOS he looked like a late round steal.

I highly doubt he gets cut...he has just as much versatility as anyone on that D-line

This is key here. This philosophy is so different from years past, fans are having a hard time unseeing what they've seen players do from the old scheme and envisioning them in this scheme. Understandable.

I like Dial, like Jones and probably, will like Carradine in this scheme...the issue is, all three could be cut when you look at the 53. It's going to be tough. And since so many of our DL can play multiple positions, you could go with 8 instead of 9.

Jun 11, 2017 at 2:52 PM

#78

DonnieDarko
Veteran
Posts: 66,841

Lynch and Tank will get cut

Jun 11, 2017 at 7:02 PM

#79

PacTiger
Member
Posts: 30,146

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Lynch and Tank will get cut

Someone who's potential hasn't materialized yet will be cut, that's for sure.

Jun 12, 2017 at 12:17 AM

#80

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

I think they both make it.

So AA,Mitch,Buck,Thomas,Lynch,Elvis,Carradine,Dial and Blair. Is 9 DL too much?

To me, Dial and Blair are both expendable now and not cause they suck.

[ Edited by SmokeCrabtrees on Jun 12, 2017 at 12:18 AM ]

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:57 AM

#81

Vito_Corleone
Veteran
Posts: 1,285

Originally posted by NCommand:
I like Dial, like Jones and probably, will like Carradine in this scheme...the issue is, all three could be cut when you look at the 53. It's going to be tough. And since so many of our DL can play multiple positions, you could go with 8 instead of 9.

They probably will trade 1 or 2 for WR or FS, etc

Jun 12, 2017 at 5:29 AM

#82

mayo49
Veteran
Posts: 65,216

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Lynch and Tank will get cut

Hopefully.

Jun 12, 2017 at 6:46 AM

#83

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I like Dial, like Jones and probably, will like Carradine in this scheme...the issue is, all three could be cut when you look at the 53. It's going to be tough. And since so many of our DL can play multiple positions, you could go with 8 instead of 9.

They probably will trade 1 or 2 for WR or FS, etc

That certainly would be helpful to get stoke size at WR and some experienced depth at FS.

Jun 12, 2017 at 10:16 AM

#84

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,484

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
i agree, its smart cap wise and potential wise. If they are neck-n-neck...go with the rookie. He has more room to improve and will be more affordable with the next 4 years.

I really like DJ tho. His knock was that he wasnt a 3 down player, but with a heavy rotation...he will get a lot of rest and stay fresh throughout game, making an impact when he is in

The guys that plays the 2 gap 4-tech and2 gap 2-tech -- man I'd like those guys to be Ted Washington types of guys. Brute Strong, doesn't give ground. I could care less if they could rush the passer or not, I just don't want them giving ground on a double team. I'd also play one of the three on passing downs as the guy that would clog up the center on draw plays and quick hitters. D.J. Jones is 321 lbs, Quinton Dial is 318 lbs, and Earl Michell is 310 lbs. then you add Buckner who is 300 Lbs. That's a good selection of two gapping DT's in Saleh's system. I don't think you keep less than 3 guys for the two gapping roles. I'm thinking two play and one is a reserve to spell one of the two guys playing.

Quinton is younger than Mitchell, Buckner and DJ Jones are both younger than Quinton, just on youth alone (I've never seen Mitchell play) it seems it would be Mitchell that would be let go.

Jun 12, 2017 at 11:27 AM

#85

Buchy
Veteran
Posts: 2,842

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
i agree, its smart cap wise and potential wise. If they are neck-n-neck...go with the rookie. He has more room to improve and will be more affordable with the next 4 years.

I really like DJ tho. His knock was that he wasnt a 3 down player, but with a heavy rotation...he will get a lot of rest and stay fresh throughout game, making an impact when he is in

The guys that plays the 2 gap 4-tech and2 gap 2-tech -- man I'd like those guys to be Ted Washington types of guys. Brute Strong, doesn't give ground. I could care less if they could rush the passer or not, I just don't want them giving ground on a double team. I'd also play one of the three on passing downs as the guy that would clog up the center on draw plays and quick hitters. D.J. Jones is 321 lbs, Quinton Dial is 318 lbs, and Earl Michell is 310 lbs. then you add Buckner who is 300 Lbs. That's a good selection of two gapping DT's in Saleh's system. I don't think you keep less than 3 guys for the two gapping roles. I'm thinking two play and one is a reserve to spell one of the two guys playing. Quinton is younger than Mitchell, Buckner and DJ Jones are both younger than Quinton, just on youth alone (I've never seen Mitchell play) it seems it would be Mitchell that would be let go.

Can't see it, Mitchell is their guy, they went and signed him as a target in FA.

I think Dial, Chris Jones and Carradine will likely be gone as legacies from the previous regime. Blair was very good in limited snaps last season and this scheme suits him better.

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:05 PM

#86

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,956

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
I think they both make it.

So AA,Mitch,Buck,Thomas,Lynch,Elvis,Carradine,Dial and Blair. Is 9 DL too much?

To me, Dial and Blair are both expendable now and not cause they suck.

You have Pita getting cut? I don't think he makes it to the PS, and Lynch seems to LOVE his work ethic.

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:08 PM

#87

GhostOfBaalke
Veteran
Posts: 6,115

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
I think they both make it.

So AA,Mitch,Buck,Thomas,Lynch,Elvis,Carradine,Dial and Blair. Is 9 DL too much?

To me, Dial and Blair are both expendable now and not cause they suck.

Last year we had.
D line

2016 (7): Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Quinton Dial, Glenn Dorsey, Mike Purcell, Ronald Blair, Tony Jerod-Eddie

Outside Linebackers
2016 (3): Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine

+ Lynch who was suspended

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM

#88

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,956

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
I think they both make it.

So AA,Mitch,Buck,Thomas,Lynch,Elvis,Carradine,Dial and Blair. Is 9 DL too much?

To me, Dial and Blair are both expendable now and not cause they suck.

Last year we had.
D line

2016 (7): Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, Quinton Dial, Glenn Dorsey, Mike Purcell, Ronald Blair, Tony Jerod-Eddie

Outside Linebackers
2016 (3): Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Tank Carradine

+ Lynch who was suspended

So, that reasoning would anticipate ~11 roster spots b/w DL and SAM LB.

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:40 PM

#89

808niner4lyphe
Veteran
Posts: 7,611

Carradine is taking 1st teams reps at OTAs, that means when Thomas comes in he'll be the starter while Tank be the 2nd string backup. Tank's roster spot is safe for now. He's finally playing a scheme that fits him well and he'll flourish like he did at Florida State playing in a 4-3 scheme. He was never a fit for a 3-4 scheme.

[ Edited by 808niner4lyphe on Jun 12, 2017 at 3:41 PM ]

Jun 12, 2017 at 3:42 PM

#90

GoldenGateGlory
Veteran
Posts: 1,503

Tank will be a gun this year.

We have waited a long time but it will be worth it.