Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

We gotta remember he is gonna have a learning curve. There were definitely some positives coming from his performance.
- He is shifty in the pocket which is a plus and then there were times where he could of made things allot easier for himself and just climbed the pocket and hit a checkdown.

- He's got a cannon but right now is throwing fastballs every throw. This helped him actually avoid a couple of interceptions but of course hurts him in the accuracy department. Either throw at a receivers feet or throwing high. Throwing high is more of a concern as it leads to bigger hits on the WR. He also seems to drop down right before a throw... NFL defenders will recognize that tell and start jumping routes even faster.

-He can read mid field and deep routes very well for a rookie but he has to learn to come off some of those reads when he feels pressure and just hit the check down. One 3rd down he had kittle wide open 5 yards away from him and knowing how hard Kittle is to take down he could of beat the only defender in the area for 7 yards easy.

But overall it was promising. Seattle has always been the bane of this franchises existence in the past decade. And them having Adams is a great counter to a guy like Trey cause he isnt gonna get run over, can close fast and is good all around but in the box... he is a beast. Allot of easy plays were left on the field but that is to be expected by a rookie in his first real extended playtime.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Trey needs to have a good game to get the fans feeling good about him again. It seems like the fans confidence is waning on him a little bit.

I signed up to the forums basically to address this here.
I am a vocal Jimmy supporter. For a thousand reasons. But I don't have waning confidence in Trey. Even after his poor performance in the last game (and yes, it was a poor performance. Take away the busted coverage, and he's under 50% completions for 80 yards). Actually, it's my confidence in him that is why I think Jimmy needs to continue starting.
My issue is not Trey, or that we picked him, or that he is the QB of the future. When we moved up, he was actually the QB I wanted of the bunch. My issue is not that I believe he won't be better than Jimmy... I think and hope that he can be.
My issue is more with Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch, the local bay area media, and the fanbase.
Since Kyle has come here, he's had this weird obsession with Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins isn't even really all that great, but Kyle has been fascinated by him and wanting him to be "his guy" since he came here. He didn't get him, and then Lynch made the trade for Jimmy - another guy I didn't actually want, as I had seen the story on Brady backups going to other teams before, and didn't want to fall victim to that again. But considering that all we gave up was a 2nd rounder, I was all in on him. And then he came in and led us to 5-0 to end that season - a meaningless season at that point, but NOT for the teams he was facing. Tennessee and Jacksonville were both fighting for playoff positioning, and Jimmy beat them both, along with Chicago, the Rams, and I forget the 5th team he beat. I knew that with Jimmy under center, we could be a playoff team. Unfortunately, 2018 happened, but in a weird way it was a blessing, because it got us the other key piece we needed in Bosa.

My issue is the fact that Jimmy is literally the only QB that Kyle and the 49ers have had any success with since the Kyle / Lynch era began, and it's not just a marginal upgrade. It is completely night and day. I feel that because the 49ers didn't *need* to pass the ball in the playoffs, Jimmy missed the deep ball to Sanders (a throw he had been making all year - I was at Levi Stadium when he made the exact same throw on 3rd and 16 in nearly identical circumstances to beat the Rams and clinch the division), and we lost the Super Bowl to flashy Mahomes, that the media started painting this false narrative about "Jimmy can't do this" "49ers can't do that as long as Jimmy is here", and then the fanbase started to eat it up. The conspiracy theorist side of me would even believe that Lynch and Shanahan started to cater to the pressure, and started to believe themselves that they needed an upgrade, which prompted them to make the draft trade.

And hey, there's nothing wrong with upgrading. You should always be looking to upgrade, but the cost that they did to do so was completely unnecessary, and actively harmful to the team as a whole.

You don't invest 4 high level picks on a position that doesn't need that kind of upgrade. I understand Jimmy's injury history, but really why are we always focusing on Jimmy's injuries? Why not ask the question - why are Kyle's 49ers always at the top of the league in injuries? I think that's the bigger concern.

But my concern is the fact that we invested 4 picks on Trey Lance. That by itself raises the acceptable standards that Lance has to meet in order to make the trade worthwhile. That's not really his fault, it falls on Kyle and Lynch for going amateur hour at the draft.

Trey Lance can't just be good. We already have a good QB, and yes, Jimmy is good. Look at his 2019 stats. He was actually in line with QB's like Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, Watson, etc. 8.4 YPA; 3rd in the NFL, higher than Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson. 61% completions on deep balls 20+ yards; #1 in the NFL. 27 TD's; 6th in the NFL and more than Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watson. 5.7 TD%; 7th in the NFL and higher than Mahomes, Watson, Rodgers, all on a 69.1% completions, 4th in the NFL and higher than Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watson. He lacked a bit in overall passing yards, because it was a run first offense, and still racked up 4000 yards and was #12 in the league. So we can just throw away this whole narrative that Jimmy is just a game manager and is lacking the capabilities of running a dynamic offense. I'm not saying he is as good as Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, etc. but statistically, he was completely in line with them. Jimmy isn't the problem, and never has been. I can understand that you always want to continue improving, and maybe you want something different for the long term, and that's fine, but it was not a position to invest 4 picks into. So in order to make the trade worth it, Lance has to be better than good. He has to be franchise altering. He literally has to be Mahomes 2.0, otherwise it was a waste of a trade. And even then, you have to question if the team as a whole is better off with Trey Lance - 2 more years of top draft picks, or Jimmy G / QB @ spot 12 + draft picks in tact for the next 2 years.

This team has major holes to fill. The struggles on this team are far and away beyond just Jimmy and the QB spot. Jimmy is so far down the list that he's not even on it, outside of this obsession the media and fanbase has become with insisting that he is a problem. Jimmy G is not the one who can't get separation from DB's. Jimmy G is not the one who can't get a run game going. Jimmy G is not the one who can't cover anyone or force a turnover. Jimmy G is not the one who couldn't defend for 37 seconds. Jimmy G is still tossing for 66% completions, 7.8 YPA, and 264 YPG (this is all with this past Sunday included)

To be perfectly honest, I would have much preferred to have seen the 49ers front office address the secondary this draft, rather than the QB position. They have a void at pass rush since losing Buckner that even the return of Bosa hasn't completely filled. But not only did we focus on the QB position, we invested 3 drafts into it, so in order to make the payoff worthwhile, Trey Lance has to be more than just good. He has to be a franchise changing QB. That's the only acceptable outcome of this trade. If he is anything less than franchise changing, then you just invested 3 drafts into getting the same thing that you already had, it just looks a little bit flashier. God forbid the possibility that he actually busts and ends up no good.

So now, I have to think, what sets Trey Lance up for the best position to be that franchise changing QB?

Doing the same thing that past franchise changing QB's have gotten, like Rodgers and Mahomes, who get to sit for a year or 2, learn the game at the NFL level, learn the offensive system, and then get put onto the field when they are more prepared?

Or do the same thing that this very franchise has done with top QB picks in the past, and just throw them out there to placate the media / fan desires, get the guy destroyed before he's even ready, crush his confidence, and start putting him through a cycle of front office turnover when people start facing the fallout of their decisions?

For me, I'd rather Jimmy take this year for as long as he's healthy, sprinkle some Trey in where applicable because he does have a dynamic skill set that can be and should be utilized, let the team continue with where they left off in 2019, continue to get winning experience and build the culture of winning, and then when Trey has had an entire year on the sidelines to watch and learn, let him take over next year when he's more prepared.

Because I'm sorry... take that busted coverage out - and no, that busted coverage wasn't because Trey Lance is so dynamic that he just made defenders forget how to defend), and he's under 50% completions for about 80 yards. Trying to compare his TD and INT stats to other rookie QB's is disingenuous at best, because it removes all context from the fact that Trey Lance was not leading and sustaining TD drives, he was poaching off the efforts earned by Jimmy. At least 2 of Trey's TD's belong to Jimmy (the TD in Detroit, and the running TD against Green Bay, which just a play or 2 before Jimmy hit Aiyuk who dropped an easy TD grab. Trey is not ready right now. It has nothing to do with his potential or what he can and will be. It has everything to do with *right now*. And *right now*, he is not ready. And no, reps and snaps going to Jimmy this year is not "wasting reps". They weren't a waste for Mahomes. They weren't a waste for Rodgers. yes, so QB's can start right away and have success. Those types of QB's that do that are not as raw as Trey Lance is right now. Ben Roethlisberger did it on a Super Bowl ready roster with a strong veteran presence, and was not nearly as raw as Trey Lance is. Peyton Manning did it, because despite his interception record, was not as green as Trey Lance is. Trey Lance is not ready to go, and forcing him out there if he doesn't have to be just to placate Shasky, Bonta Hill, Murph, Maiocco, etc. is not going to do the 49ers, or Trey, any favors.

damn, the infamous Rich Madrid and Quincy Avery(Trey's QB coach) got into it on Twitter after Rich said he believes Trey's time with Quincy Avery was wasted. He said Avery didn't help Trey improve s**t with his mechanics.

And I don't necessarily disagree. Trey's mechanics are all over the place. I hope he hooks up with Jordan Palmer this offseason. Palmer will definitely fix his feet, which is where most experts agree is the most progress is to be made with a QB's mechanics.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Ok so he has played from the pocket and still looks like he has tremors in a clean one? That's even worse buddy. Name one other qb in the nfl who looks that spastic and uncomfortable from the pocket.
There's not one.

Did he look like he had tremors in college playing form the pocket…buddy?

Kid hasn't played meaningful football in over a yr, got next to nothing in starter reps all through camp, he's gotten scout team reps during the season, and was asked to jump in and play a min before the second half started…THEN put up 200 yards of offense, 2 TDs, and a 2-pt conversion in one half of football.

whats even more funny is he has the same amount of TDs as your boy McCorkle with 220 less snaps 😂

They didn't draft your boy, get over it.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Really don't know what game you were watching and seeing Trey as being 'spastic and uncomfortable' in the pocket. Aside from maybe two plays where he sensed pressure a bit early, he was very solid from a clean pocket.

This is actually incorrect. PFF rated Trey very poorly when having no pressure. He was rated very high when having pressure. The exact opposite of Jimmy, as Jimmy was one of the lowest graded passers in football when having pressure.

Originally posted by Heroism:
damn, the infamous Rich Madrid and Quincy Avery(Trey's QB coach) got into it on Twitter after Rich said he believes Trey's time with Quincy Avery was wasted. He said Avery didn't help Trey improve s**t with his mechanics.

And I don't necessarily disagree. Trey's mechanics are all over the place. I hope he hooks up with Jordan Palmer this offseason. Palmer will definitely fix his feet, which is where most expects agree is where the most progress is to be made with a QB's mechanics.

I was watching film of other QBs and there were several slightly different motions but the one thing they weren't doing is bringing the ball down below the waist then back up again. Most looked like they dropped their arm about a foot below the shoulder and then back. Some almost went straight back from a high shoulder position. That allows for an even quicker release. Right now Trey's motion is almost circular and is way too exposed to having the ball knocked out of his hand from the backside rush. I'm guessing it adds at least a full second to his release time. It looks like something that can be corrected with work in the off season.

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:
We gotta remember he is gonna have a learning curve. There were definitely some positives coming from his performance.
- He is shifty in the pocket which is a plus and then there were times where he could of made things allot easier for himself and just climbed the pocket and hit a checkdown.

- He's got a cannon but right now is throwing fastballs every throw. This helped him actually avoid a couple of interceptions but of course hurts him in the accuracy department. Either throw at a receivers feet or throwing high. Throwing high is more of a concern as it leads to bigger hits on the WR. He also seems to drop down right before a throw... NFL defenders will recognize that tell and start jumping routes even faster.

-He can read mid field and deep routes very well for a rookie but he has to learn to come off some of those reads when he feels pressure and just hit the check down. One 3rd down he had kittle wide open 5 yards away from him and knowing how hard Kittle is to take down he could of beat the only defender in the area for 7 yards easy.

But overall it was promising. Seattle has always been the bane of this franchises existence in the past decade. And them having Adams is a great counter to a guy like Trey cause he isnt gonna get run over, can close fast and is good all around but in the box... he is a beast. Allot of easy plays were left on the field but that is to be expected by a rookie in his first real extended playtime.

His outing reminded me of the SF Giants phenomenon Camilo Doval

Young power athletes usually get lost in adrenaline when they get their shot

Trust the process...Trey has put in the work and has the talent

The potential is electric and worth the growing pains

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:
This is a pretty quick watch. Trey was obviously stiff when he first came in, as he should be, but you can clearly see him settle in and start gunning it. There may be some he could take a little off if, but for the most part that howitzer is going to put the ball in a position where either his receiver gets it or nobody does.

Interesting rewatching this without the emotions of game day. Yes he started out rough but by the end he looked pretty good. He works the pocket really well. Yes mechanics are inconsistent but he hasn't had any first team reps in practice. This makes me go back to what I said before the season, which was he needs to start. He gives us WAY more with his legs and we don't have a good enough OL to give Jimmy the time he needs to get chunk plays. Let's see what the rook can do.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Heroism:
damn, the infamous Rich Madrid and Quincy Avery(Trey's QB coach) got into it on Twitter after Rich said he believes Trey's time with Quincy Avery was wasted. He said Avery didn't help Trey improve s**t with his mechanics.

And I don't necessarily disagree. Trey's mechanics are all over the place. I hope he hooks up with Jordan Palmer this offseason. Palmer will definitely fix his feet, which is where most expects agree is where the most progress is to be made with a QB's mechanics.

I was watching film of other QBs and there were several slightly different motions but the one thing they weren't doing is bringing the ball down below the waist then back up again. Most looked like they dropped their arm about a foot below the shoulder and then back. Some almost went straight back from a high shoulder position. That allows for an even quicker release. Right now Trey's motion is almost circular and is way too exposed to having the ball knocked out of his hand from the backside rush. I'm guessing it adds at least a full second to his release time. It looks like something that can be corrected with work in the off season.

Madrid is a.......word that will get censored.

Rich doesn't know what yes talking about as much as he thinks he does. He's a Grant Cohn wannabe. I laugh anytime people would call me biased and then quote Rich. He will literally ignore plays, he'll ignore the 49ers playbook portion I KNOW he has(I know because the guy I got some of it from gave it to him) and I've seen him call Jimmy out on missing a, "1st read" when the play clearly shows it as a 3rd or 4th.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Really don't know what game you were watching and seeing Trey as being 'spastic and uncomfortable' in the pocket. Aside from maybe two plays where he sensed pressure a bit early, he was very solid from a clean pocket.

This is actually incorrect. PFF rated Trey very poorly when having no pressure. He was rated very high when having pressure. The exact opposite of Jimmy, as Jimmy was one of the lowest graded passers in football when having pressure.

First bolded will improve drastically with first team practice reps and game reps.

Second bolded is why I think Trey needs to start. Jimmy thrives with a clean pocket, but our OL is just not built for nor proficient at pass blocking.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Really don't know what game you were watching and seeing Trey as being 'spastic and uncomfortable' in the pocket. Aside from maybe two plays where he sensed pressure a bit early, he was very solid from a clean pocket.

This is actually incorrect. PFF rated Trey very poorly when having no pressure. He was rated very high when having pressure. The exact opposite of Jimmy, as Jimmy was one of the lowest graded passers in football when having pressure.

First bolded will improve drastically with first team practice reps and game reps.

Second bolded is why I think Trey needs to start. Jimmy thrives with a clean pocket, but our OL is just not built for nor proficient at pass blocking.

Agreed on both statements.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Did he look like he had tremors in college playing form the pocket…buddy?

Kid hasn't played meaningful football in over a yr, got next to nothing in starter reps all through camp, he's gotten scout team reps during the season, and was asked to jump in and play a min before the second half started…THEN put up 200 yards of offense, 2 TDs, and a 2-pt conversion in one half of football.

whats even more funny is he has the same amount of TDs as your boy McCorkle with 220 less snaps 😂

They didn't draft your boy, get over it.

Ironic thing is I can name one that looks way worse under pressure than Trey did Sunday.

Tua

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I was watching film of other QBs and there were several slightly different motions but the one thing they weren't doing is bringing the ball down below the waist then back up again. Most looked like they dropped their arm about a foot below the shoulder and then back. Some almost went straight back from a high shoulder position. That allows for an even quicker release. Right now Trey's motion is almost circular and is way too exposed to having the ball knocked out of his hand from the backside rush. I'm guessing it adds at least a full second to his release time. It looks like something that can be corrected with work in the off season.

Wilson and Mahomes do it all the time…Greg Panelli who has worked with Josh Allen for yrs, isn't worried about his throwing motion at all

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I was watching film of other QBs and there were several slightly different motions but the one thing they weren't doing is bringing the ball down below the waist then back up again. Most looked like they dropped their arm about a foot below the shoulder and then back. Some almost went straight back from a high shoulder position. That allows for an even quicker release. Right now Trey's motion is almost circular and is way too exposed to having the ball knocked out of his hand from the backside rush. I'm guessing it adds at least a full second to his release time. It looks like something that can be corrected with work in the off season.

A full second to his release time?

Exactly how long do you think it takes him to release it then?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Wilson and Mahomes do it all the time…Greg Panelli who has worked with Josh Allen for yrs, isn't worried about his throwing motion at all

QB Monday on #CrockTalkTV. @Greg_Panelli discussing Trey Lance's throwing motion and why he doesn't see anything wrong with. #49ers

Full link: https://t.co/OoQEdLOGAf pic.twitter.com/b0QU4od5kY

— Big CROCKY⚡️ (@eric_crocker) August 2, 2021

its not bad but i think he could improve upon it