Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

I still don't agree with this notion. Why can't Thomas be an edge rusher. According to Mike Mayock (debatable source, I know), he categorizes Thomas as an edge rusher. I don't think he could be an OLB in 3-4, but as a DE/LEO in 4-3, I think he has the athleticism and quickness to be very effective.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794141/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

I still don't agree with this notion. Why can't Thomas be an edge rusher. According to Mike Mayock (debatable source, I know), he categorizes Thomas as an edge rusher. I don't think he could be an OLB in 3-4, but as a DE/LEO in 4-3, I think he has the athleticism and quickness to be very effective.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794141/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

You can't just bull rush from the edge though. The LEO is built for a guy with speed off the edge to force THE QB up into the pocket.

There aren't too many 275 pound LEO edge rushers in the league.

I like Thomas. I really do but you can't just draft him, square peg him and force him into a round hole. It just won't work.

Now if we draft him and move Deforest to 3 tech DT and start Soloman Thomas at strong side LDE then sure. Draft him. But he is not a LEO and he is not a UT.

LDE-Thomas
NT- Purcell / Dial / Rookie
DT- Buckner / Mitchell / AA / Blair
LEO- Harold / Rookie

That is a nice looking line.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He went from a 264 pound 4-3 DE to a 280 pound UT in a 4-3 under. No reason why Thomas wouldn't eventually be able to play the 3 technique full time.

Never made a Pro Bowl either for Cincy. Had 44 sacks in 7 years never going over 10. Very solid but not the impact he had for us.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

He went from a 264 pound 4-3 DE to a 280 pound UT in a 4-3 under. No reason why Thomas wouldn't eventually be able to play the 3 technique full time.

Sure he could. In time. If he adds 10 or 15 pounds.

But until then, where do we play him?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Never made a Pro Bowl either for Cincy. Had 44 sacks in 7 years never going over 10. Very solid but not the impact he had for us.

When he weighed well over 300 of pure muscle as a 3-4 DE.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Who said anything about Zay Jones? When did he start playing for NE?

Then why are you bringing up the Pats WRs? I mentioned Solomon Thomas and Zay Jones to me is way better than Mike Williams and a DE in the 2nd round.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
When he weighed well over 300 of pure muscle as a 3-4 DE.

We're just making things up now? When was he ever over 300 lbs, let alone well over 300?

Originally posted by genus49:

Then why are you bringing up the Pats WRs? I mentioned Solomon Thomas and Zay Jones to me is way better than Mike Williams and a DE in the 2nd round.

And to me Mike Williams or Lamar Adams and a LEO pass rusher in round 2 is way better than picking another LDE at 2 and Zay Jones in round 2 when the guy we have at LDE has All Pro potential and plays 90% of the snaps.

And again, Soloman Thomas is not a LEO and he is not a DT. He is a strong side DE.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
I love Soloman Thomas.

He can play anywhere and will play with 100% effort and passion. When Lynch was talking up Earl Mitchell he talked about working hard, setting and example and running to the ball. Watch plays of Thomas chasing down running backs on screens or tosses. He goes 100 miles an hour all the time.

A few other things:

*Earl Mitchell is not a NT. Never has been. He is a penetrating DT who has never been stout vs the run. I don't think we are done at the NT position and we will look to add a true run stuffer for the middle of our D-line.

*I don't see a spot for Arik Armstead (6'7, 300), Quinton Dial (6'5, 320) or Ronald Blair (6'2, 285) on the D-line. Where will they play? Just because Armstead was a high draft pick does not mean we will play him where he doesn't fit. He is not a DE in a 4-3. He lacks the explosiveness to bend the edge. He is not a DT because he doesn't play with leverage and will get owned in the run game. I think he will get moved. I love Blair but again, where does he fit? We may keep him around at DE if Harold doesn't show anything.

*We need to add at least one more speed rusher (Jordan Willis) to fit the role Frank Clark plays on nickle downs when our LDE (Michael Bennett) slides in to DT to replace the NT on passing downs. Soloman Thomas is a perfect fit to be our Michael Bennett.

Draft:

1- Solomon Thomas, DE- Stanford 6'3, 273
The announcers in the North Carolina game said it best. "Soloman Thomas, Whats your position? Football" This guy is a monster. He singlehandedly takes over games. His work ethic, passion and leadership are second to none. Line him up at LEO, line him up at DT. Put him at OLB. It doesn't matter. He will make plays and fly to the ball. I don't care that we took two D linemen in consecutive years. Those were Baalke's picks. Thomas will be Lynch's first ever pick and if he is anything like Justin Smith he will be a dominant force and a team leader for a decade. I really like Marshon Lattimore but it starts in the trenches. He will play the role that Michael Bennett plays in Seattle.

2- Jordan Willis, DE- Kansas State 6'3, 255
Pure, explosive pass rusher. Might be the best speed rusher in the draft. Very similar to Cliff Avril in Seattle. We desperatley need a pass rush to make this D work. A nickel D line of Jordan Willis - Soloman Thomas - DeForest Buckner could be deadly.

3- Dalvin Tomlinson, NT- Alabama 6'3, 310
Wins with leverage, power and technique. Beast of a man who is also very smart and could have gone to Harvard. He is leader and a model citizen. I love this guy.

Seahawks D-Line:

LDE- Michael Bennett (6'3, 273) ----- Frank Clark (6'1, 270)
NT- Ahtyba Rubin (6'3, 330) ----- John Jenkins (6'4, 345)
DT- Jarran Reed (6'3, 310) ---- Tony McDaniel (6'7, 305)
RDE- Cliff Avril (6'3, 260) ----- Damontre Moore (6'4, 250)

Nickel D-Line

LDE- Frank Clark
DT- Michael Bennett
DT- Jarran Reed
RDE- Cliff Avril

Compared to ours:

LDE- Soloman Thomas (6'3, 273) -----Jordan Willis (6'3, 255)
NT- Dalvin Tomlinson (6'3, 310) ----- Mike Purcell (6'3, 305)
DT- DeForest Buckner (6'7, 300) ---- Earl Mitchell (6'2, 296)
RDE- Aaron Lynch (6'5, 249) ---- Eli Harold (6'3, 247) or Ronald Blair (6'2, 285)

Nickel D-Line:

LDE- Jordan Willis
DT- Soloman Thomas
DT- DeForest Buckner
RDE- Aaron Lynch

It just makes sense to re-work the D-lines. We don't have the personell to run the scheme Shanahan and Lynch want to run so we will look to the draft to find guys that fit. Thomas, Willis and Tomlinson are absolutly prefect for what we run and are high character guys while Armstead, Blair and Dial are not.

^---once again what changed since then?

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Justin smith was pretty f**king good at stopping the run and he was smaller than Solomon coming out of the draft...Solomon was doing stuff like this all yr

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/187561-solomon/page59/ post# 878

You bring up Jarran Reed and arm length when his arms are .375 inches longer (under 34 inches) He didn't even bench at the combine while Solomon busted out 30 reps good for 4th overall among all DL prospects. He benched more than Caleb Brantley, Montravius Adams, and Malik McDowell who are all looked at as top DTs.

I've posted this a couple times about the UT (or 3-tech) and how important it is in a 4-3 under http://www.uwdawgpound.com/2013/9/13/4727200/the-4-3-under-defining-the-defense

"This is the defense's namesake. He lines up at the 3-tech on the weak-side. The Under Tackle (UT) is an undersized DT who gets by on speed, quickness and technique. Sheer girth is not very important for this position, atypical for an interior line position. A lot of UTs are former DE's who have shifted inside. Now, not all UT's are the small, quick type. It depends on what the defensive coordinator wants for the situation and position.

If the defense is focused on stopping the run, oftentimes the UT will be a larger defender. He could be similar to a 3-4 DE. There is versatility in how this position could be used. The first star UT was Hall of Famer Warren Sapp. Sapp is an anomaly, a player with great size and strength in addition to quickness.

Typically, a DC wants his best interior pass rusher at the UT. Because he will be in a lot of one-on-one situations against a guard, the UT should be able to knife his way into the backfield and fluster the QB in addition to penetrating on run plays.

One of the main ideas of the 4-3 Under is to get defenders in one-on-one situations. Take a look again at the 4-3 Under on the chalkboard. How does a team (from 21 personnel, or even 12) double team anyone other than the NT? While the defense is predicated on getting one-on-one matchups, it is specifically designed to get the UT and the WDE into one-on-one situations.

When running a 4-3 Under, it is very, very, very important that the 3-tech UT is able to beat solo blocks consistently. More than consistently, frequently. Because the defense is so predicated on getting him those looks, it becomes almost necessary that he is able to dominate single blocks.

In case you haven't noticed: the 3-tech under tackle is one of if not the number one most important player on this entire defense. His ability to rush the passer from the interior in addition to beating his blocker in hopes to stopping runs in the backfield is what the defense if predicated on."

IMO That's exactly what Solomon can do....I feel like you haven't even watched him play when your throwing out some of the stuff your saying (he's also closer to 280 then 270).... Also who said he's gonna be going against a OTs...if he's playing the 3-tech he's gonna be blasting thru OGs. I will add he has the speed and quickness to line up on the edge if need be (IMO best suited for the interior). Length isn't everything go look at Ingam and Mack, Thomas put up similar if not better numbers to them and weighs 15+ more lbs.

It's funny one poster says 3-tech is his ideal spot and another says LDE...no one knows and is just guessing lol.

I don't know of too many 274 pound Defensive tackles who are successful vs the run in the NFL.

Mack and Ingram are edge rushers. They cannot be compared to Thomas.

Dude you can't even keep up with yourself. Just a week or two ago you were saying Thomas could play all over the place...now he's not an edge rusher?

Once again what changed?

If you suddenly realized you don't want to see us draft 3 DL in 3 years in the first that's fine but say that. Don't start pretending Thomas can't play on the edge suddenly to defend your new position when you were singing a very different tune just a few weeks ago.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

I don't know of too many 274 pound Defensive tackles who are successful vs the run in the NFL.

Mack and Ingram are edge rushers. They cannot be compared to Thomas.

276 lbs and room to grow...he's playing on the outside on running downs and pushed Inside on passing downs most likely if they want him to put and extra 9 lbs (what Donald plays at) he'd be a strong athletic 3-tech without question...we are gonna be out of nickle more than base anyway so you can line him up anywhere on that line based on match ups...earlier you had no peoblem drafting him, then it was mike Williams now it's Adams...your all over the place man.

I brought up Mack and Ingram who productive edge rushers, his athletic ability is right on par with them and he's bigger!

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
And to me Mike Williams or Lamar Adams and a LEO pass rusher in round 2 is way better than picking another LDE at 2 and Zay Jones in round 2 when the guy we have at LDE has All Pro potential and plays 90% of the snaps.

And again, Soloman Thomas is not a LEO and he is not a DT. He is a strong side DE.

Mike Williams has a hell of a lot more holes in his game than Thomas does. Drafting a WR with a top 2 pick is a huge gamble(look at how those guys have done in the NFL) but to use a #2 overall pick on a guy who isn't a straight up stud at WR when we have so many other issues on the team is asking for more frustration as a fan base.

Originally posted by genus49:

Dude you can't even keep up with yourself. Just a week or two ago you were saying Thomas could play all over the place...now he's not an edge rusher?

Once again what changed?

If you suddenly realized you don't want to see us draft 3 DL in 3 years in the first that's fine but say that. Don't start pretending Thomas can't play on the edge suddenly to defend your new position when you were singing a very different tune just a few weeks ago.

This

40 pages later, and debates are still ongoing about what position he plays.

Originally posted by genus49:
We're just making things up now? When was he ever over 300 lbs, let alone well over 300?

This. He was always in the 280's, he wasn't that massive, just super quick, strong and didn't take plays off.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

And to me Mike Williams or Lamar Adams and a LEO pass rusher in round 2 is way better than picking another LDE at 2 and Zay Jones in round 2 when the guy we have at LDE has All Pro potential and plays 90% of the snaps.

And again, Soloman Thomas is not a LEO and he is not a DT. He is a strong side DE.

Yeah a big slow wr who can't run routes is perfect for Kyle's scheme...zay jones is 6-2 210 runs a 4.45 and runs some of the best routes in college football. Why can't we get the 2nd best prospect who CAN play all over the line (which you even said he could like a week ago), a true Leo or SAM at two then move backup for jones?? We have a s**t ton of picks.

Originally posted by genus49:
Then why are you bringing up the Pats WRs? I mentioned Solomon Thomas and Zay Jones to me is way better than Mike Williams and a DE in the 2nd round.

Just to get on the same page. I don't want Davis or Williams. Top 5 a receiver has to be 6'3 215 sub 4.4 forty and dominate. Williams and Davis are mid 1st prospects. Just I agree with Young that Shanny's o isn't going to be clicking into he gets a AJ or JJ. That's his history. Williams ain't that though.