Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
And Mike Williams isn't Johnson or Julio...how long did it take ATL to get all those offensive pieces? why is it a fluke yr in WSH? last I saw Garcon had to make those routes and catch those balls just the same.

I agree we need help everywhere and it's not a one yr rebuild but you draft the best talent when you have none. outside of Buck who was a rookie there isn't talent on that DL..you can say their upside all you want but there isn't and proof of it on film.

Agreed and taking a wr at 2 wasn't my argument. Just backing up Steve that our wr's are hot garbage and Shanny isn't going to fix that with his system. Wsh only finished 16th in passing in Garçon's break out year. Then you factor in Garcon's only broke 1k in 2 out of 9 years and I wouldn't bet on 1,400 yards. Shanny's 4 years there they finished 25, 26, 4, and 23rd in scoring. Let's not act like he doesn't need talent. That's not to you just the people trumping up his system.

I think we all agree we need talent all over the place...I think there are plenty of solid WRs in this draft outside of the top two. IMO getting a better QB will drastically improve the offense overall. It's gonna take two yrs to start seeing results.

A trade down is ideal but if not going BPA because we need sure fire talent is hopefully what is done.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Sorry to break it to you but he won't be tops in the NFL at at stopping the run weighting 270 pounds. The NFL is a whole other animal. Dudes with long arms are going to get their hands on him before he does. Those 33" arms are doing him no favors.

His ideal spot is LDE and Deforest has that on lock down. I could see us MOVING Deforest to UT and playing Thomas at LDE but then again I worry that tackles with length will smother him. Imagine Trent Brown and his arms blocking Thomas.

Seattle's UT is Jarran Reed and he is 6'3' 310. Just saying.

You act like 33'' arms are t-rex

JJ Watt's arms are 34''.
Michael Bennett at 33+change
Von Miller 33.5
Vic Beasley 32.5
Aaron Donald 32 5/8
Oliver Vernon 33''
Jared Allen apparently had 32'' arms back in college
Dwight Freeney 33''

His arms are fine and the idea that just because he was good at something in college that he won't be in the NFL is pretty dumb considering at one point all of these guys were in college...obviously some of them end up playing well in the NFL somehow.

This kid is still growing as a player and he has passion for the game. He'll go a long way in this league as long as he stays healthy.

Originally posted by genus49:
You act like 33'' arms are t-rex

JJ Watt's arms are 34''.
Michael Bennett at 33+change
Von Miller 33.5
Vic Beasley 32.5
Aaron Donald 32 5/8
Oliver Vernon 33''
Jared Allen apparently had 32'' arms back in college
Dwight Freeney 33''

His arms are fine and the idea that just because he was good at something in college that he won't be in the NFL is pretty dumb considering at one point all of these guys were in college...obviously some of them end up playing well in the NFL somehow.

This kid is still growing as a player and he has passion for the game. He'll go a long way in this league as long as he stays healthy.

I think people get too attached to measurements. Great football players overcomef measurement deficiencies. As you mentioned, Thomas doesn't have the longest arms but he's also the same or not far off from many other great pass rushers. Your work ethic, motor, football IQ and desire ultimately will determine far more about how your career turns out than 1 inch difference in arm size.

Lol can't be the dead time before the Draft without debates about hand size and arm length. Tape says a player can play he can play. Thomas can play. All I ever think about when people talk about players arm length is a T-Rex trying to do a push up...

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Agreed and taking a wr at 2 wasn't my argument. Just backing up Steve that our wr's are hot garbage and Shanny isn't going to fix that with his system. Wsh only finished 16th in passing in Garçon's break out year. Then you factor in Garcon's only broke 1k in 2 out of 9 years and I wouldn't bet on 1,400 yards. Shanny's 4 years there they finished 25, 26, 4, and 23rd in scoring. Let's not act like he doesn't need talent. That's not to you just the people trumping up his system.

It's not just his system.

Bill Walsh may not know as much about football as you guys but he always said you can coach up offense but you need talent on defense. That hasn't changed.

Offense knows what play is called, they have an advantage. Defenses have to read and react to what the offense is doing for the most part. Look at the Pats, outside of Gronk who do they have that's that good? Their scheme gets those guys open and they're able to make plays after Brady gets them the ball.

As I and others have mentioned you can put great talent around dog chit at QB and you'll still get chit with some flowers on top but it's still chit.

Building teams with WRs is crazy. It has never worked and never will. They are an important position but not nearly that important.

The idea of drafting Mike Williams at #2 is crazy. You take WRs with a top 2 pick when they're easily the best in their class and a sure thing.

Mike Williams is big and jumps high. His routes are sloppy, he comes from a limited offense and he has injury history. This is not Calvin Johnson. This is not Larry Fitzgerald. This isn't Julio or AJ Green.

Drafting a WR just because ours aren't great at #2 is literally what the Lions did...and honestly all those guys maybe outside of their Mike Williams were better prospects than this Mike Williams.

I'll take Solomon Thomas and Zay Jones over Mike Williams and whomever else is left in round 2 at DE any day.

Name 1 team who has won a SB on the back of their WRs without having an elite QB to go with them.

Originally posted by genus49:
It's not just his system.

Bill Walsh may not know as much about football as you guys but he always said you can coach up offense but you need talent on defense. That hasn't changed.

Offense knows what play is called, they have an advantage. Defenses have to read and react to what the offense is doing for the most part. Look at the Pats, outside of Gronk who do they have that's that good? Their scheme gets those guys open and they're able to make plays after Brady gets them the ball.

As I and others have mentioned you can put great talent around dog chit at QB and you'll still get chit with some flowers on top but it's still chit.

Building teams with WRs is crazy. It has never worked and never will. They are an important position but not nearly that important.

The idea of drafting Mike Williams at #2 is crazy. You take WRs with a top 2 pick when they're easily the best in their class and a sure thing.

Mike Williams is big and jumps high. His routes are sloppy, he comes from a limited offense and he has injury history. This is not Calvin Johnson. This is not Larry Fitzgerald. This isn't Julio or AJ Green.

Drafting a WR just because ours aren't great at #2 is literally what the Lions did...and honestly all those guys maybe outside of their Mike Williams were better prospects than this Mike Williams.

I'll take Solomon Thomas and Zay Jones over Mike Williams and whomever else is left in round 2 at DE any day.

Name 1 team who has won a SB on the back of their WRs without having an elite QB to go with them.

I remember this wr who Walsh drafted in the 1st you may of heard of him he was pretty good. Offensive coaches like to draft d, defensive coaches like to draft o and the reason for that is they tend to believe they can spot out talent and develop but at the end of the day trust me you're not developing a Julio Jones or Andre Johnson. The only time Shanny has ever had great o's is with those kind of receivers. Don't think he's going to pull it out of his @ss. I agree though that Mike Williams is not that guy just don't post a bunch of crap that Shanny's system is going to elevate nobodies.

As for NE. 2 words Tom Brady. Nobody plays like them. They're the only team in football that relies on small shifty white receivers so unless you want to tell me we got Brady I don't want to hear about them.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

I remember this wr who Walsh drafted in the 1st you may of heard of him he was pretty good.

Bill Walsh won 2 of his 3 SBs before he ever drafted that guy.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I remember this wr who Walsh drafted in the 1st you may of heard of him he was pretty good. Offensive coaches like to draft d, defensive coaches like to draft o and the reason for that is they tend to believe they can spot out talent and develop but at the end of the day trust me you're not developing a Julio Jones or Andre Johnson. The only time Shanny has ever had great o's is with those kind of receivers. Don't think he's going to pull it out of his @ss. I agree though that Mike Williams is not that guy just don't post a bunch of crap that Shanny's system is going to elevate nobodies.

As Phoenix said Bill Walsh won 2 SBs before drafting Rice. The fact that a 49ers fan can make a comparison like that blows my mind.

We won the SB going 15-1 in the regular season with #2 offense and a top 10 defense, #1 in points allowed before drafting Rice.

Just a tad different than using a #2 overall pick on a WR who's nowhere near the route runner that Rice was after a 2-14 season and no QB and the worst defense in the league.

Yeah...outside of that perfect analogy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Justin smith was pretty f**king good at stopping the run and he was smaller than Solomon coming out of the draft...Solomon was doing stuff like this all yr

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/nfl-draft/187561-solomon/page59/ post# 878

You bring up Jarran Reed and arm length when his arms are .375 inches longer (under 34 inches) He didn't even bench at the combine while Solomon busted out 30 reps good for 4th overall among all DL prospects. He benched more than Caleb Brantley, Montravius Adams, and Malik McDowell who are all looked at as top DTs.

I've posted this a couple times about the UT (or 3-tech) and how important it is in a 4-3 under http://www.uwdawgpound.com/2013/9/13/4727200/the-4-3-under-defining-the-defense

"This is the defense's namesake. He lines up at the 3-tech on the weak-side. The Under Tackle (UT) is an undersized DT who gets by on speed, quickness and technique. Sheer girth is not very important for this position, atypical for an interior line position. A lot of UTs are former DE's who have shifted inside. Now, not all UT's are the small, quick type. It depends on what the defensive coordinator wants for the situation and position.

If the defense is focused on stopping the run, oftentimes the UT will be a larger defender. He could be similar to a 3-4 DE. There is versatility in how this position could be used. The first star UT was Hall of Famer Warren Sapp. Sapp is an anomaly, a player with great size and strength in addition to quickness.

Typically, a DC wants his best interior pass rusher at the UT. Because he will be in a lot of one-on-one situations against a guard, the UT should be able to knife his way into the backfield and fluster the QB in addition to penetrating on run plays.

One of the main ideas of the 4-3 Under is to get defenders in one-on-one situations. Take a look again at the 4-3 Under on the chalkboard. How does a team (from 21 personnel, or even 12) double team anyone other than the NT? While the defense is predicated on getting one-on-one matchups, it is specifically designed to get the UT and the WDE into one-on-one situations.

When running a 4-3 Under, it is very, very, very important that the 3-tech UT is able to beat solo blocks consistently. More than consistently, frequently. Because the defense is so predicated on getting him those looks, it becomes almost necessary that he is able to dominate single blocks.

In case you haven't noticed: the 3-tech under tackle is one of if not the number one most important player on this entire defense. His ability to rush the passer from the interior in addition to beating his blocker in hopes to stopping runs in the backfield is what the defense if predicated on."

IMO That's exactly what Solomon can do....I feel like you haven't even watched him play when your throwing out some of the stuff your saying (he's also closer to 280 then 270).... Also who said he's gonna be going against a OTs...if he's playing the 3-tech he's gonna be blasting thru OGs. I will add he has the speed and quickness to line up on the edge if need be (IMO best suited for the interior). Length isn't everything go look at Ingam and Mack, Thomas put up similar if not better numbers to them and weighs 15+ more lbs.

It's funny one poster says 3-tech is his ideal spot and another says LDE...no one knows and is just guessing lol.

I don't know of too many 274 pound Defensive tackles who are successful vs the run in the NFL.

Mack and Ingram are edge rushers. They cannot be compared to Thomas.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I remember this wr who Walsh drafted in the 1st you may of heard of him he was pretty good. Offensive coaches like to draft d, defensive coaches like to draft o and the reason for that is they tend to believe they can spot out talent and develop but at the end of the day trust me you're not developing a Julio Jones or Andre Johnson. The only time Shanny has ever had great o's is with those kind of receivers. Don't think he's going to pull it out of his @ss. I agree though that Mike Williams is not that guy just don't post a bunch of crap that Shanny's system is going to elevate nobodies.

As for NE. 2 words Tom Brady. Nobody plays like them. They're the only team in football that relies on small shifty white receivers so unless you want to tell me we got Brady I don't want to hear about them.

Zay Jones is a small shifty white receiver now?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I can see him getting up into the low to mid 280's and still being pretty athletic at that size.

He's already bigger than this guy was coming into the NFL.

Justin Smith was a DE. Not a DT. Big difference.

Guys in here are saying he can be a UT in this scheme and I can't see it. If anything he is a DE on the strong side like Justin Smith was. Problem is, that's where Deforest is playing.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
I don't know of too many 274 pound Defensive tackles who are successful vs the run in the NFL.

Mack and Ingram are edge rushers. They cannot be compared to Thomas.

I still don't agree with this notion. Why can't Thomas be an edge rusher. According to Mike Mayock (debatable source, I know), he categorizes Thomas as an edge rusher. I don't think he could be an OLB in 3-4, but as a DE/LEO in 4-3, I think he has the athleticism and quickness to be very effective.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794141/article/mike-mayocks-2017-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

I don't see how anyone can doubt this dude after watching film on him.

motherf**k measureables. Look at AA. Huge, long arms, big o' piece of s**t. Look at Ray Lewis. Undersized, one of the best LBs in NFL history. This dude has a motor that doesn't quit, the stength of 10 men and 20 pound balls and a 5 pound cock. DRAFT HIM!

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DktuijMDwsh8&ved=0ahUKEwjHwt7ko-rSAhXFKGMKHbzaC0sQt9IBCG8wFQ&usg=AFQjCNFFfxluAPCESKrI7KP7WkubD1k9pg

Watch this tape. This is who we need.

Originally posted by genus49:
Zay Jones is a small shifty white receiver now?

Who said anything about Zay Jones? When did he start playing for NE?

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Justin Smith was a DE. Not a DT. Big difference.

Guys in here are saying he can be a UT in this scheme and I can't see it. If anything he is a DE on the strong side like Justin Smith was. Problem is, that's where Deforest is playing.

He went from a 264 pound 4-3 DE to a 280 pound UT in a 4-3 under. No reason why Thomas wouldn't eventually be able to play the 3 technique full time.