What keeps the offense from begin elite

bootleg
i do appreciate you putting up the stats but they dont tell the whole story


our WR are just incapable of doing well against a decent secondary the only person who consistantly does well is vernon

and they also have torrey smith to stretch the field we dont have anyone (ginn doesnt count he isnt a deep threat) which leaves the safties to play closer to middle of the field and that leaves crabs and vernon doubled

torrey smith streches the field leaves boldin in single coverage over the middle on most plays

Alex Smith does not look for WR's enough. Maybe its the Wr's not getting open.
Maybe its Smith. Actually, Im pretty sure its Smith.

The only thing keeping our offense from being elite is themselves. There speed in picking up the system and how well they pick up the system all depends on themselves, coordination/chemistry with team mates on the offense depends on themselves, playcalling that coordinates with what our team has picked up depends on the judgement of OC/HC, and filling the holes recently vacated in our offense depends on our GM/HC's judgement. To try to single out one player as "holding us back" or the reason we aren't elite just isn't realistic, because unlike the Colts we were not built around 1 player, so the changing of 1 player here will not magically turn us into the elite dominant offense everyone wants.

Originally posted by JBatta49erfansince81:
Alex Smith does not look for WR's enough. Maybe its the Wr's not getting open.
Maybe its Smith. Actually, Im pretty sure its Smith.

mat millen said it was the WR

and if it was smith who is not passing to open WR then do you think harbaugh is that much of an idiot to call him a very good qb and want to bring him back?

either youre calling harbaugh an idiot or youre just wrong


edit: i want to make myself clear im not saying smith doesnt miss open Wr but im sure he doesnt miss more than other qbs do

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
So you blame YPC on our receivers, yet you don't factor in YAC when comparing the two receiving corps and you tell me I am not being objective. I am looking at all the stats, and i don't see how our receiving corps last year was so much worst than Baltimore's receiving corp. You point to two stats being YPC and receptions. That just means their receivers were hit on longer routes, especially since their YAC aren't as high. How does that make their receivers better than ours?

Seems like our receivers had to fight harder for their yards.

I pointed to two stats that you did not take into the equation. There are more but in order to establish meaningful statistical analysis you need to try and present as whole a picture as you can. You selected some stats that indicate nothing regarding playcalling, oline protection, or difficulty of catch, etc.

When you just use stats and do not take into consideration Boldin's reputation as an all pro receiver you tend to lose credibility as well.

That said, I do not "blame" our receivers for being bad when both Morgan and Edwards were sidelined. Two out of the top three WRs were useless for most of the year but you try to make it sound like having Boldin and Smith for the entire year is somehow not better than bringing in subs.

You make too many leaps of faith in your arguments:

"Their receivers were hit on longer routes." But the stats show that Smith is better, comparatively, on longer routes than on short routes. So this just doesn't jibe.

"Our receivers had to fight harder for their yards." Or they aren't as good? Or our yards are longer than Baltimore's?

You have no idea of whether Flacco is much better than Smith or Smith is much better than Flacco. You can argue for or against QBR, but at least that rating is a serious attempt to define QB quality analyzing many variables. Smith is rated 9th while Flacco is rated 18th. So maybe Boldin has forgotten how to be an all pro and that is why Flacco is rated so poorly?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
So you blame YPC on our receivers, yet you don't factor in YAC when comparing the two receiving corps and you tell me I am not being objective. I am looking at all the stats, and i don't see how our receiving corps last year was so much worst than Baltimore's receiving corp. You point to two stats being YPC and receptions. That just means their receivers were hit on longer routes, especially since their YAC aren't as high. How does that make their receivers better than ours?

Seems like our receivers had to fight harder for their yards.

I pointed to two stats that you did not take into the equation. There are more but in order to establish meaningful statistical analysis you need to try and present as whole a picture as you can. You selected some stats that indicate nothing regarding playcalling, oline protection, or difficulty of catch, etc.

When you just use stats and do not take into consideration Boldin's reputation as an all pro receiver you tend to lose credibility as well.

That said, I do not "blame" our receivers for being bad when both Morgan and Edwards were sidelined. Two out of the top three WRs were useless for most of the year but you try to make it sound like having Boldin and Smith for the entire year is somehow not better than bringing in subs.

You make too many leaps of faith in your arguments:

"Their receivers were hit on longer routes." But the stats show that Smith is better, comparatively, on longer routes than on short routes. So this just doesn't jibe.

"Our receivers had to fight harder for their yards." Or they aren't as good? Or our yards are longer than Baltimore's?

You have no idea of whether Flacco is much better than Smith or Smith is much better than Flacco. You can argue for or against QBR, but at least that rating is a serious attempt to define QB quality analyzing many variables. Smith is rated 9th while Flacco is rated 18th. So maybe Boldin has forgotten how to be an all pro and that is why Flacco is rated so poorly?

What I was trying to show by presenting the statistics of every player on our team who caught the ball is that, when taken together, all of our receivers had roughly the same number of yards, TDs, first downs, and targets as the Baltimore Raven's receivers. While our receivers did not have as high of a YPC or 20+ reception, they tended to have a higher completion % when targeted and more YAC. In essence, I find the statistics useful because I believe it shows that, even with the injuries we had, our receivers did a pretty comparable job to that of Baltimore's receivers. We can always speculate as to how B. Edwards and J. Morgan would have performed had they been 100% healthy the whole year like A. Boldin and T. Smith, but there's little point in that. As none of these receivers, except Crabtree, played the whole year, I find it harsh to say that because none of them put up T. Smith's numbers, that they should be discounted.

I see no stats showing that A. Smith is better at the longer routes, however I look forward to seeing them if you would like to provide them.

In the future, I would, also, appreciate it if you accurately quoted my statements, otherwise please do not take the time put the quote box around them.

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What I was trying to show by presenting the statistics of every player on our team who caught the ball is that, when taken together, all of our receivers had roughly the same number of yards, TDs, first downs, and targets as the Baltimore Raven's receivers. While our receivers did not have as high of a YPC or 20+ reception, they tended to have a higher completion % when targeted and more YAC. In essence, I find the statistics useful because I believe it shows that, even with the injuries we had, our receivers did a pretty comparable job to that of Baltimore's receivers. We can always speculate as to how B. Edwards and J. Morgan would have performed had they been 100% healthy the whole year like A. Boldin and T. Smith, but there's little point in that. As none of these receivers, except Crabtree, played the whole year, I find it harsh to say that because none of them put up T. Smith's numbers, that they should be discounted.

I see no stats showing that A. Smith is better at the longer routes, however I look forward to seeing them if you would like to provide them.

In the future, I would, also, appreciate it if you accurately quoted my statements, otherwise please do not take the time put the quote box around them.

passes thrown 30 yards 50

alex smith: 4-8
drew brees 8-15
eli manning 6-21
aaron rodgers 7-12
tom brady: 0-9

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What I was trying to show by presenting the statistics of every player on our team who caught the ball is that, when taken together, all of our receivers had roughly the same number of yards, TDs, first downs, and targets as the Baltimore Raven's receivers. While our receivers did not have as high of a YPC or 20+ reception, they tended to have a higher completion % when targeted and more YAC. In essence, I find the statistics useful because I believe it shows that, even with the injuries we had, our receivers did a pretty comparable job to that of Baltimore's receivers. We can always speculate as to how B. Edwards and J. Morgan would have performed had they been 100% healthy the whole year like A. Boldin and T. Smith, but there's little point in that. As none of these receivers, except Crabtree, played the whole year, I find it harsh to say that because none of them put up T. Smith's numbers, that they should be discounted.

I see no stats showing that A. Smith is better at the longer routes, however I look forward to seeing them if you would like to provide them.

In the future, I would, also, appreciate it if you accurately quoted my statements, otherwise please do not take the time put the quote box around them.

passes thrown 30 yards 50

alex smith: 4-8
drew brees 8-15
eli manning 6-21
aaron rodgers 7-12
tom brady: 0-9

How many passes were dumps with big gains afterward? I can think of more then a few were the TE, WR, or RB breaks a big one after a checkdown.

I can't recall too many passes completed with a bomb pass. Maybe 3-4?

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
How many passes were dumps with big gains afterward? I can think of more then a few were the TE, WR, or RB breaks a big one after a checkdown.

I can't recall too many passes completed with a bomb pass. Maybe 3-4?

passes must be thrown 30 yards

and i can think of at least 2 dropped (one by Vd against rams another by ginn)

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
How many passes were dumps with big gains afterward? I can think of more then a few were the TE, WR, or RB breaks a big one after a checkdown.

I can't recall too many passes completed with a bomb pass. Maybe 3-4?

passes must be thrown 30 yards

10-4

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What I was trying to show by presenting the statistics of every player on our team who caught the ball is that, when taken together, all of our receivers had roughly the same number of yards, TDs, first downs, and targets as the Baltimore Raven's receivers. While our receivers did not have as high of a YPC or 20+ reception, they tended to have a higher completion % when targeted and more YAC. In essence, I find the statistics useful because I believe it shows that, even with the injuries we had, our receivers did a pretty comparable job to that of Baltimore's receivers. We can always speculate as to how B. Edwards and J. Morgan would have performed had they been 100% healthy the whole year like A. Boldin and T. Smith, but there's little point in that. As none of these receivers, except Crabtree, played the whole year, I find it harsh to say that because none of them put up T. Smith's numbers, that they should be discounted.***

I see no stats showing that A. Smith is better at the longer routes, however I look forward to seeing them if you would like to provide them.*

In the future, I would, also, appreciate it if you accurately quoted my statements, otherwise please do not take the time put the quote box around them.**

*These were posted some time ago so don't recall where. Too tired to find it but Smith is best on routes of 30 or more yards when compared with other QBs. He is less effective at mid range and then less effective again on short routes. Brady, for instance, is just the opposite. So to say that the 9er WRs get less YAC because of Smith seems unlikely. Once again, Brady has thanked his receivers for making the most of his short passes, breaking tackles and getting YAC.

**The quotes were accurate. You might complain about my not using the whole sentence if that changed the meaning, but I don't see that as having happened.

***You are the one comparing our WRs with Baltimore's as if they were equal last year...the whole intent of your tables. My point is that if Smith had Morgan and Crabtree the whole season we might have another Super Bowl trophy in SF. We disagree, no big deal.

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
passes thrown 30 yards 50

alex smith: 4-8
drew brees 8-15
eli manning 6-21
aaron rodgers 7-12
tom brady: 0-9

Thanks 49ersall--These demonstrate to me that Smith is right in there with the big boys on long passes. I recall that his comparison with elite QBs fades with mid and short passes. Could be play design or lack of time in the system or that he needs to work on short passes more.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks 49ersall--These demonstrate to me that Smith is right in there with the big boys on long passes. I recall that his comparison with elite QBs fades with mid and short passes. Could be play design or lack of time in the system or that he needs to work on short passes more.

i think we just lack a deep threat yes he has less attempts by far than those qbs and ys its definitely possiblehis comp % may go down with more attempts however we wont know untill we get a legit deep threat

Converting 3rd downs...

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i think we just lack a deep threat yes he has less attempts by far than those qbs and ys its definitely possiblehis comp % may go down with more attempts however we wont know untill we get a legit deep threat

Agree but believe the deep threat does not necessarily have to be a 4.3 guy. I still have faith that Morgan and Crabtree could be a good combo. I just want more, and more, and more quality depth...and speed...and size...