What keeps the offense from begin elite

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by niners9:
"When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league."

this statement is false. although i like our guys, they are no where near most talented in league. VD is inconsistent, but can be a top 3 TE. crabs has had some good games, but isnt yet a true #1 WR. gore is still a beast, but has injury problems. and alex still needs to develop a little more.

our biggest problem was new offense and no big playmaker(although VD became that in the playoffs). our o-line was also inconsistent. with a full offseason and hopefully some new weapons(at WR), this can become one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league.

So, everyone on our offense can improve except for our WR's who are the ONLY players on offense in the last three years to have shown to improve at the highest rate from year to year?

of course our WRs can improve, but we need depth and speed. its no secret that we need help at WR, adding a quality playmaker at the position will help big time.

TWO WORDS! ALEX SMITH! til he's gone we'll never be a great offense!

for people saying Wr are getting seperation

then can you explain why matt millen said when harbaugh look at the gametape he will be pretty happy with alex play he said y ah emissed a couple plays but for the most part the WR werent getting any seperation and the #1 priority for harbaugh in the offseason is to get WR who can get seperation

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
No, it is not. The only difference between Alex 2006 and Alex 2011 was his INT's. THAT difference alone produced a Rating that makes it appear like 2 completely different QB's.

Please do note the crap offensive talent Alex had around him (Gore excluded) in 2006.

That stat alone can be the difference between a winning team and a losing team.

Yes, that and one of the best Defenses and STs in the league.

Because the defense sure did create alot of turnovers. Quite alot of them where in scoring range and good ol Akers came through, but no TD's.

Originally posted by 305Niner:
Because the defense sure did create alot of turnovers. Quite alot of them where in scoring range and good ol Akers came through, but no TD's.

since the steelers game we were 6/8 in RZ in TD/FG ratio and only kicked 1 FG against saints that wasnt in the red zone


you cant expect there to be no fallout from installing a new offense in no offseason

Joe I think the passing in to tight windows is on the receivers and alex. I'm not sure alex is totally confident in those risks with himself and with his receivers, crabtree can create seperation when he actually trys but if you pay attention to a lot of the games he doesn't try as often as he should, kyle takes more effort to creat seperation due to the larger amount of seperation he needs when he is covered by large db, ginn is pure speed, but not a wr sorry guys unless running a reverse he should be purely special teams, and Morgan I think if there would have been more passes into tight windows he would have been the target simply because his chemistry with alex. Then there is barylon, oh wait he was canned before the season, and so that leaves Swain and Hastings in which those two names alone should automaticly equal needing an upgrade at receiver.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

See, some drama unfolds! I feel your pain, Alex Smith is a "serviceable" veteran QB, not a super star...so? should we dump him asap for who for what? So until a super star we can again emerges, we will have Alex, and so we will need better receivers to create separation, maybe he will gain confidence and start throwing into tight windows...who knows, but I do know this, a better running back, and 2 better wide receives would make the offense...wait for it...BETTER! LOL thanks good night!

That is where the major misconception lies. As Alex isn't going anywhere, neither is Crabtree or Kyle Williams and possibly Morgan. The "separation" is in the eye of the beholder because what most see as separation on coaches film, Alex doesn't see it.

This team is not going to pay a lucrative amount for these proven receivers who get this "separation" you desire. Even if we do, the lack of separation will be surprising to you guys and those receivers are not great because of a vast amount more of separation. They are great because they get thrown the ball to 40 times more than our 843 yard receiver which allows them to attempt more jump balls and other difficult catches.

The bigger question isn't whether or not we can acquire a receiver who can get even slightly more separation or can make the tough catch...the question is, will Alex throw it or will these same top receivers match their production while being thrown to less than they were accustomed to?

THAT is why I would rather upgrade Delanie and get a fast tall raw receiver late in the draft.

Agree, 100% (or more if mathematically practical) I think Crabtree doesn't want to be here and we lose him to FA asap. So me I trade him, why? because I think Morgan was well on his way to out preforming Crabtree when he was injured. I think this draft is fat with quality WR's, and with extra late round picks, from Crabtree and Spencer, we can bring in 2-3 new wide outs AND still come away with Fleener. Yes I know that's a lot of picks on offense, but really look how great the defense was last season, no reason (unless an amazing opportunity falls to us) to look at that side of the ball in the draft, we can go FA on defense much easier than we can on offense, because what great WR is going to want to play in a system that features TE's and RB"s so much any way, but smack it flip and rub it down, what defensive player would NOT want to play here?

Hey, look! A backdoor link to the Alex Smith thread....

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

See, some drama unfolds! I feel your pain, Alex Smith is a "serviceable" veteran QB, not a super star...so? should we dump him asap for who for what? So until a super star we can again emerges, we will have Alex, and so we will need better receivers to create separation, maybe he will gain confidence and start throwing into tight windows...who knows, but I do know this, a better running back, and 2 better wide receives would make the offense...wait for it...BETTER! LOL thanks good night!

That is where the major misconception lies. As Alex isn't going anywhere, neither is Crabtree or Kyle Williams and possibly Morgan. The "separation" is in the eye of the beholder because what most see as separation on coaches film, Alex doesn't see it.

This team is not going to pay a lucrative amount for these proven receivers who get this "separation" you desire. Even if we do, the lack of separation will be surprising to you guys and those receivers are not great because of a vast amount more of separation. They are great because they get thrown the ball to 40 times more than our 843 yard receiver which allows them to attempt more jump balls and other difficult catches.

The bigger question isn't whether or not we can acquire a receiver who can get even slightly more separation or can make the tough catch...the question is, will Alex throw it or will these same top receivers match their production while being thrown to less than they were accustomed to?

THAT is why I would rather upgrade Delanie and get a fast tall raw receiver late in the draft.

Agree, 100% (or more if mathematically practical) I think Crabtree doesn't want to be here and we lose him to FA asap. So me I trade him, why? because I think Morgan was well on his way to out preforming Crabtree when he was injured. I think this draft is fat with quality WR's, and with extra late round picks, from Crabtree and Spencer, we can bring in 2-3 new wide outs AND still come away with Fleener. Yes I know that's a lot of picks on offense, but really look how great the defense was last season, no reason (unless an amazing opportunity falls to us) to look at that side of the ball in the draft, we can go FA on defense much easier than we can on offense, because what great WR is going to want to play in a system that features TE's and RB"s so much any way, but smack it flip and rub it down, what defensive player would NOT want to play here?

I also agree with Lonewolf that it is both QB and WR which means more time than anything. I just don't think we can expect a high priced WR to come in and all of a sudden Alex improves by 1000 yards. It will be a waste of money. There are only 2 WR's out there who have had nearly the same amount of balls thrown to as Crabtree but produced about 300 yards more and Colston is one of them.

As for Crabtree, if he was thrown to as much as some of the other FA wr's (30 or 40 more times) I am sure he could have racked up 25 more catches per his catch to target ratio. That alone is about 250 more yards per his yards per catch. He would have had very good numbers. But yes, his desire is in question but just as you guys mention Harbaugh speaking highly of Alex, he has also spoken very highly of Tree's determination to learn and get better.


We will end up paying a FA receiver 6mil a year to only increase Alex's stats by about 700 or so yards, if even that. Not worth it.

But its not about improving alexs stats, its about the only stat that matters w's. We do need a threatening receiver that requires serious attention. With just 1 receiver like that for a #1 crabs kyles vernons delanies morgans whoever is out for receptions numbers go up because of lack of coverage now if they try to double the true #1 and VD we now have an upper hand on top defenses in the league as well.

Alex Smith?




oh no what did I just do?......

Originally posted by Joecool:
I also agree with Lonewolf that it is both QB and WR which means more time than anything. I just don't think we can expect a high priced WR to come in and all of a sudden Alex improves by 1000 yards. It will be a waste of money. There are only 2 WR's out there who have had nearly the same amount of balls thrown to as Crabtree but produced about 300 yards more and Colston is one of them.

As for Crabtree, if he was thrown to as much as some of the other FA wr's (30 or 40 more times) I am sure he could have racked up 25 more catches per his catch to target ratio. That alone is about 250 more yards per his yards per catch. He would have had very good numbers. But yes, his desire is in question but just as you guys mention Harbaugh speaking highly of Alex, he has also spoken very highly of Tree's determination to learn and get better.


We will end up paying a FA receiver 6mil a year to only increase Alex's stats by about 700 or so yards, if even that. Not worth it.

crabtree actually attending his first offseason workouts and preseason games will help him a lot

if youve noticed every season he starts of slow then icks it up in the end that cant be a concidence

I've noticed that too, at first I thought it was injuries, and then learned more about his lack of training camps and then it clicked. For the first few games of the season he's playing catchup on practice. It would be nice if he wasn't wasting 3-4 games catching up.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
this is what i meant to quote above, but couldn't edit my post to make it look like this.

I was snide?

All I am saying is that there is no need to say someone is hating because he thinks the reason we do not have an elite offense is because of Alex Smith. I agree with him and can post stats like these to help prove my point. If you think otherwise, show me the stats you think are pertinent in showing that Alex Smith is not holding us back from being elite.



vs. the NYG in playoffs.

Interesting data but it also shows the difference in quality of the WRs on the three teams as well. NONE of the 49er receivers in the playoffs last season would start in either GB or Atlanta - which is why most mocks have the 49ers using the #1 pick on a WR. The ones that don't have them grabbing one of the 2nd tier in the 2nd round. The need is undeniable.

What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?





conversions = 3rd down conversions

I think the answer is simple. It is Alex Smith. Though capable, he does not have confidence in himself. He can make all the throws and when he believes in himself the 49ers offense will be great.