What keeps the offense from begin elite

Originally posted by NextofKIN:
I think the answer is simple. It is Alex Smith. Though capable, he does not have confidence in himself. He can make all the throws and when he believes in himself the 49ers offense will be great.

You must be new here.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Im just curious. So one of the main reasons our offense wasnt very good in a lot of your eyes, was that we didnt have continuity and time in the offense. Well you guys who keep saying that are also the same guys saying that we need to upgrade our WRs.

Well wouldnt that mean we wouldnt have continuity? Wouldnt that mean these new WRs would still need time in a new offense? I swear its a vicious cycle of excuses/reasons why our offense isnt very good. When will it end?

we need time but our WR arent exactly world class brett swain and hastings ssaw time because of injuries

an UNDFA and swain a castoff who was sitting on the couch till week 6 or 7 when we picked him up

and continuity is in terms of playbook and system

Your first two lines are irrelevant in terms of continuity and time in a system.

Your last line is exactly the point I was making. These new WRs that you and others want to bring in will have ZERO continuity in terms of playbook and system. So once again, there will be a built in excuse for having a subpar offense in 2012.

How are the first 2 lines irrelevant to time in a system?
Swain was picked up 6-7 weeks into the season, and Hastings was brought up from the practice squad IIRC when Braylon was released. They are perfect examples of having no time in a system. When your missing your starters due to injuries and you have no one currently in the depth charts to bring up to take over the starter position it becomes an issue within the WR core because you don't have enough people within that core, with enough familiarity with the new system to make your receivers anything more then bodies on the field. So I do agree to a certain extent, that WR's aren't the total issue, depth is. I also believe that we do need to upgrade our core with someone to take over Braylon's spot. Because Swain or Hastings do not belong anywhere other then a practice squad for now, I don't think Kyle is quite ready for starter duties, and we need a receiver that will force just as much attention as Vernon does.

Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

Yup... they will no no time, but they might actually have some talent. Swain and Hastings were FILLER. They were rarely thrown to. If you're going to make the claim that the 9ers brought them up because they thought they had the talent to truly do much, then there is no reason to continue a discussion. It would be pointless because your fundemental "facts" upon which to argue would be different than mine...and I suspect the vast majority of the posters here.

Even with time to get the system they will be what they have been...cut from another team because there were more talented players that needed roster spots...including PS.

The WRs that need more time in the system are Crabtree, Morgan, Williams and maybe Ginn. Assuming we keep Ginn, that means we still need at least one more WR who can make the team based on Talent. More if Ginn becomes a Special Teams only player...or we add a 6th WR to the roster.

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?

A Bolden = better than any 9er WR
T Smith = better than any 9er WR
Evans = 9 year vet and solid receiver

Yes, I would say the Ravens WRs were vastly superior to the 9ers injury plagued group. Four receivers in the top 25 last year. Crabtree against this group? Are you kidding?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?

A Bolden = better than any 9er WR (11th last year)
T Smith = better than any 9er WR (19th last year)
Evans = 9 year vet and solid receiver (25th last year)

Yes, I would say the Ravens WRs were vastly superior to the 9ers injury plagued group. Four receivers in the top 25 last year.

if that doesnt answer it then i would like to present brett swain and joe hastings as further evidence. f**k our receiving corps

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?

A Bolden = better than any 9er WR (11th last year)
T Smith = better than any 9er WR (19th last year)
Evans = 9 year vet and solid receiver (25th last year)

Yes, I would say the Ravens WRs were vastly superior to the 9ers injury plagued group. Four receivers in the top 25 last year.

if that doesnt answer it then i would like to present brett swain and joe hastings as further evidence. f**k our receiving corps

Had to clarify the ranking--was playoff ranking. Since the 9ers had no playoff ranked WRs I would use the regular season, which is still weighted heavily in favor of Baltimore.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?

A Bolden = better than any 9er WR
T Smith = better than any 9er WR
Evans = 9 year vet and solid receiver

Yes, I would say the Ravens WRs were vastly superior to the 9ers injury plagued group. Four receivers in the top 25 last year. Crabtree against this group? Are you kidding?

I think this shows that our WRs are, at least, as skilled as Baltimore's receivers.





updated charts with weighted averages, instead of broken averages.

Really all that shows me is that crabtree is in between there #1 and #2 receiver when it comes to yards, but for some reason took 50% more receptions to get close to boldins yards. It also shows me our #1 TE would be dominant almost anywhere, but there 1 and 2 dominate our #2. It also shows one thing to look for in our future search for a running back.

Their not there sorry

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Really all that shows me is that crabtree is in between there #1 and #2 receiver when it comes to yards, but for some reason took 50% more receptions to get close to boldins yards. It also shows me our #1 TE would be dominant almost anywhere, but there 1 and 2 dominate our #2. It also shows one thing to look for in our future search for a running back.

Well, to me this chart shows Flacco throws more deep receptions than Smith and that our team relies a lot on YAC.

So in conjunction with the previous charts that I made, which shows that we are poor when it comes to completing 1st downs through the air and shows our 3 down conversion % needs a lot of work... this could be because:

1) its 3rd and long (which we need to work on; one can blame A. Smith or our receivers)
2) we design a play intended for there to be YAC to get the first down (and either the throw is off or the receiver is covered)
3) we need to call more screens and wheel routes?

I don't think we should blame the receivers as much as some believe when discussing what our offense is lacking. Maybe we need a more complete back, like Ray Rice seems to be. Maybe we need to call more screen players. These two things could probably help. However, I still give some blame to A. Smith.

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
I think this shows that our WRs are, at least, as skilled as Baltimore's receivers.


updated charts with weighted averages, instead of broken averages.

Stats taken out of context are next to meaningless. Baltimore does not have a HC named Jim Harbaugh who directs an offense that is efficient first and foremost. They do not have a TE named Vernon who is their best threat. They do have numerous good options who shared their workload. Anyone who would compare the 9ers WR favorably to Baltimore's is just not being objective.

Boldin (average YPC 15.6) has a history of success as a receiver--offensive rookie of the year, 3 pro bowls, an All-Pro.

Torey Smith (average YPC 16.8) 50 receptions, 841 receiving yards and a team leading 7 receiving touchdowns.

Crabtree (average YPC 12.1) more catches but similar total yards (874) than Boldin (887) and Smith (841).

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
I think this shows that our WRs are, at least, as skilled as Baltimore's receivers.


updated charts with weighted averages, instead of broken averages.

Stats taken out of context are next to meaningless. Baltimore does not have a HC named Jim Harbaugh who directs an offense that is efficient first and foremost. They do not have a TE named Vernon who is their best threat. They do have numerous good options who shared their workload. Anyone who would compare the 9ers WR favorably to Baltimore's is just not being objective.

Boldin (average YPC 15.6) has a history of success as a receiver--offensive rookie of the year, 3 pro bowls, an All-Pro.

Torey Smith (average YPC 16.8) 50 receptions, 841 receiving yards and a team leading 7 receiving touchdowns.

Crabtree (average YPC 12.1) more catches but similar total yards (874) than Boldin (887) and Smith (841).

So you blame YPC on our receivers, yet you don't factor in YAC when comparing the two receiving corps and you tell me I am not being objective. I am looking at all the stats, and i don't see how our receiving corps last year was so much worst than Baltimore's receiving corp. You point to two stats being YPC and receptions. That just means their receivers were hit on longer routes, especially since their YAC aren't as high. How does that make their receivers better than ours?

Seems like our receivers had to fight harder for their yards.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Look, you are missing the point. Yes, Brett Swain and Hastings had no time in our system. I agree. The point I was making was that the new WRs we bring in ALSO will have had no time in our system. So like I said, in 2012, we will once again have a built in excuse for the offense being below average. Where do the excuses/reasons end?

In your quest to continue the debate you are ignoring the proven ability of Harbaugh and staff to develop/improve players. Everyone on the team improved during the last season except RG and WRs. The RG situation is about talent and the WRs were partly talent and partly injuries. With improved talent in those areas, and a full off-season and TC, there is no reason to believe those two positions will not show marked improvement under JH and staff.

This is what I dont understand with your response and others. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU about Harbaugh and staffs ability to develop players. I understand the offense is a work in progress. What I dont understand is why you and others are unwilling to give the WRs we have a chance to develop. You guys want them replaced. I agree we need more depth at WR, but there will be a huge learning curve with these new WRs (much like there was with ours this season).

All I was saying is that some of you guys are saying that these new WRs will make an immediate difference in our offense...as if you are now ignoring the learning curve that was used as an excuse as to why our offense wasnt great this season. Thats all Im saying. Yes, we need some depth at WR. But to assume these new WRs wont have similar problems learning the offense next year as our guys did this year is kind of silly.

And English, I am not going to respond to your post. Your continual talking down to me and others is unnecessary and makes me question how you got a mod job. Since I am sure my warning level will go up after that comment, I will leave it be. If you would like to discuss this via private message, fine. But I'm tired of the condescending down talk.

Crap QB
Crap WRs
Meh O-line play

Originally posted by Bootlegger:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Bootlegger:
What about this comparison. Do the Ravens have vastly superior receivers to us?

A Bolden = better than any 9er WR
T Smith = better than any 9er WR
Evans = 9 year vet and solid receiver

Yes, I would say the Ravens WRs were vastly superior to the 9ers injury plagued group. Four receivers in the top 25 last year. Crabtree against this group? Are you kidding?

I think this shows that our WRs are, at least, as skilled as Baltimore's receivers.





updated charts with weighted averages, instead of broken averages.

Wow with the exception of Crabs those are really sad WR #s