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Forty Niners New Strategy?

Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by fakers23:
I think I know the plan is. Lose as many games as we can. Then draft Luck.

agree

i agree with both of you two. but my ? then is why waste a 2nd rounder on a qb.

Bc that's not what we're doing.
Originally posted by cwilson830:
Originally posted by Negrodamus:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by fakers23:
I think I know the plan is. Lose as many games as we can. Then draft Luck.

agree

i agree with both of you two. but my ? then is why waste a 2nd rounder on a qb.

Bc that's not what we're doing.

Everyone needs to get off of Andrew Lucks scrotum already. Success at Stanford doesn't make him a lock to be the next Peyton Manning.
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.

So to you speed = athleticism. That is not at all what athleticism is.

Your definition of "football player" is stupid to be quite frank. They are both football players and both phenomenal athletes. Justin Smith is just better at what he does than Ted Ginn.

If you've ever known any person that made it into a pro sport you would realize that all of these guys are phenomenal athletes or they never would have sniffed a pro roster made it. You can't be 300 pounds and expending all of your energy for 60 minutes without being an amazing athlete.

[ Edited by RichmondPete on Jul 28, 2011 at 15:46:52 ]
and one of our best football players is holding out
Originally posted by Negrodamus:
we are doing nothing as usual. only big timer we signed and overly paid for in the last decade was clements.

Don't forget the great Jonas Jennings!
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

That's not what this is about. It's whether teamwork and good coaching can trump superior athleticism. Often it does.

Hell, the first Niners championship was won against an opponent that was probably athletically superior, and favored to win the game. Ditto Jets vs. Baltimore a few years before. Good teamwork and the right game plan can neutralize a team of athletes who play for themselves and not as a team.

Thats not at all what he said. He said good athletes are typically more ME centric. That good athletes are not typically "good football players". Guess what? everyone in the NFL is a world class athlete, that is not in question. No one on earth would argue that anything can replace efficient teamwork in football.

The point of the thread was to relate athleticism to character. They have absolutely no correlation. Teams absolutely NEED athletes to win. The 81 niners are no exception. A freakishly athletic secondary comprised of 3 rookies took them from a loser to a winner in 1 offseason.

Not talking about character, talking about the ability to play within a scheme and be coachable. It's one thing to run a 4.2 in a straight line, another to run a 4.2 in between the tackles with Ray Lewis on the other side. I'm talking about hunger!

The superstars goal is to get to the NFL and make millions, the gritty football players goal is to be better today than he was yesterday! His goal is to honor the game, hoping to be mentioned with the best someday instead of expecting to be mentioned with the best, or wonering why he isn't being mentioned with the best!

For the record, not all NFL players are world class athletes. Some are just dahm good football players!

For the record, if you are a starter in the NFL you are a world class athlete. You don't have to be fast to be an athlete.

"Athletes are more ME focused". That is relating athleticism to character no matter how you want to spin it.

You speak of athleticism as if it takes away from hunger, coachability, humbleness, and leadership. That is the problem I have.

Vernon Davis does not at all look natural catching the ball, he definitely isn't the smartest tool in the shed. He dominates with athleticism

Jerry Rice is the best of both worlds, he was an athlete that could play some football. What has VD dominated to this point?

Race car drivers are described as athletes as well right? I am in no way saying that ALL GREAT/GOOD athletes are ME focused. Look at Welker, Hienz Ward, Marvin Harrison I could go on & on. However a nice percentage R. Moss, Jackson (eagles), Primetime... I could go on & on, I doubt if JH wants to deal with that type of athlete!
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

That's not what this is about. It's whether teamwork and good coaching can trump superior athleticism. Often it does.

Hell, the first Niners championship was won against an opponent that was probably athletically superior, and favored to win the game. Ditto Jets vs. Baltimore a few years before. Good teamwork and the right game plan can neutralize a team of athletes who play for themselves and not as a team.

Thats not at all what he said. He said good athletes are typically more ME centric. That good athletes are not typically "good football players". Guess what? everyone in the NFL is a world class athlete, that is not in question. No one on earth would argue that anything can replace efficient teamwork in football.

The point of the thread was to relate athleticism to character. They have absolutely no correlation. Teams absolutely NEED athletes to win. The 81 niners are no exception. A freakishly athletic secondary comprised of 3 rookies took them from a loser to a winner in 1 offseason.

Not talking about character, talking about the ability to play within a scheme and be coachable. It's one thing to run a 4.2 in a straight line, another to run a 4.2 in between the tackles with Ray Lewis on the other side. I'm talking about hunger!

The superstars goal is to get to the NFL and make millions, the gritty football players goal is to be better today than he was yesterday! His goal is to honor the game, hoping to be mentioned with the best someday instead of expecting to be mentioned with the best, or wonering why he isn't being mentioned with the best!

For the record, not all NFL players are world class athletes. Some are just dahm good football players!

For the record, if you are a starter in the NFL you are a world class athlete. You don't have to be fast to be an athlete.

"Athletes are more ME focused". That is relating athleticism to character no matter how you want to spin it.

You speak of athleticism as if it takes away from hunger, coachability, humbleness, and leadership. That is the problem I have.

Vernon Davis does not at all look natural catching the ball, he definitely isn't the smartest tool in the shed. He dominates with athleticism

Jerry Rice is the best of both worlds, he was an athlete that could play some football. What has VD dominated to this point?

Race car drivers are described as athletes as well right? I am in no way saying that ALL GREAT/GOOD athletes are ME focused. Look at Welker, Hienz Ward, Marvin Harrison I could go on & on. However a nice percentage R. Moss, Jackson (eagles), Primetime... I could go on & on, I doubt if JH wants to deal with that type of athlete!

Lol, WOW. you don't think a guy like Primetime would be welcomed by any coach on any team at any time? I am completely done. You don't need to get a hard on for the personality of every "football player" that you root for.

[ Edited by RichmondPete on Jul 28, 2011 at 15:53:24 ]
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.

So to you speed = athleticism. That is not at all what athleticism is.

Your definition of "football player" is stupid to be quite frank. They are both football players and both phenomenal athletes. Justin Smith is just better at what he does than Ted Ginn.

If you've ever known any person that made it into a pro sport you would realize that all of these guys are phenomenal athletes or they never would have sniffed a pro roster made it. You can't be 300 pounds and expending all of your energy for 60 minutes without being an amazing athlete.

I played in the league, so I know what it takes. The mental toll is much tougher than the physical, there is a reason why they use terms like o-line & skill positions.

I know the fat guy wants to be an athlete but when you look at the term athlete it has always been associated with track & field. You needed to be in a room with Bill Walsh, coach would have showed you the difference in perception vs reality.

Football is the ultimate team sport, the only sport where a bunch unathletic guys can work together to stop the superstar in his tracks! Football is a state of mind, it's a committment!
  • g60nx
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 99
no offense, but arguing about the definition of athleticism and football player is kinda pointless...

[ Edited by g60nx on Jul 28, 2011 at 15:55:25 ]
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.

So to you speed = athleticism. That is not at all what athleticism is.

Your definition of "football player" is stupid to be quite frank. They are both football players and both phenomenal athletes. Justin Smith is just better at what he does than Ted Ginn.

If you've ever known any person that made it into a pro sport you would realize that all of these guys are phenomenal athletes or they never would have sniffed a pro roster made it. You can't be 300 pounds and expending all of your energy for 60 minutes without being an amazing athlete.

I played in the league, so I know what it takes. The mental toll is much tougher than the physical, there is a reason why they use terms like o-line & skill positions.

I know the fat guy wants to be an athlete but when you look at the term athlete it has always been associated with track & field. You needed to be in a room with Bill Walsh, coach would have showed you the difference in perception vs reality.

Football is the ultimate team sport, the only sport where a bunch unathletic guys can work together to stop the superstar in his tracks! Football is a state of mind, it's a committment!

Lol what league? The NFL? HAHAHA. Can we keep going?

If you think that the term athlete means a track and field star than you never played in a pony league let alone the NFL.
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

That's not what this is about. It's whether teamwork and good coaching can trump superior athleticism. Often it does.

Hell, the first Niners championship was won against an opponent that was probably athletically superior, and favored to win the game. Ditto Jets vs. Baltimore a few years before. Good teamwork and the right game plan can neutralize a team of athletes who play for themselves and not as a team.

Thats not at all what he said. He said good athletes are typically more ME centric. That good athletes are not typically "good football players". Guess what? everyone in the NFL is a world class athlete, that is not in question. No one on earth would argue that anything can replace efficient teamwork in football.

The point of the thread was to relate athleticism to character. They have absolutely no correlation. Teams absolutely NEED athletes to win. The 81 niners are no exception. A freakishly athletic secondary comprised of 3 rookies took them from a loser to a winner in 1 offseason.

Not talking about character, talking about the ability to play within a scheme and be coachable. It's one thing to run a 4.2 in a straight line, another to run a 4.2 in between the tackles with Ray Lewis on the other side. I'm talking about hunger!

The superstars goal is to get to the NFL and make millions, the gritty football players goal is to be better today than he was yesterday! His goal is to honor the game, hoping to be mentioned with the best someday instead of expecting to be mentioned with the best, or wonering why he isn't being mentioned with the best!

For the record, not all NFL players are world class athletes. Some are just dahm good football players!

For the record, if you are a starter in the NFL you are a world class athlete. You don't have to be fast to be an athlete.

"Athletes are more ME focused". That is relating athleticism to character no matter how you want to spin it.

You speak of athleticism as if it takes away from hunger, coachability, humbleness, and leadership. That is the problem I have.

Vernon Davis does not at all look natural catching the ball, he definitely isn't the smartest tool in the shed. He dominates with athleticism

Jerry Rice is the best of both worlds, he was an athlete that could play some football. What has VD dominated to this point?

Race car drivers are described as athletes as well right? I am in no way saying that ALL GREAT/GOOD athletes are ME focused. Look at Welker, Hienz Ward, Marvin Harrison I could go on & on. However a nice percentage R. Moss, Jackson (eagles), Primetime... I could go on & on, I doubt if JH wants to deal with that type of athlete!

Lol, WOW. you don't think a guy like Primetime would be welcomed by any coach on any team at any time? I am completely done. You don't need to get a hard on for the personality of every "football player" that you root for.

How many teams did Primetime play for when he was in his prime? How many teams let him walk in his prime?

Athletes serve a purpose in football, but it is never a good idea to build your team around the super star, build around football players and add a super star athlete ala prime time in SF (last super bowl) when you find that you are missing that piece.
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.

So to you speed = athleticism. That is not at all what athleticism is.

Your definition of "football player" is stupid to be quite frank. They are both football players and both phenomenal athletes. Justin Smith is just better at what he does than Ted Ginn.

If you've ever known any person that made it into a pro sport you would realize that all of these guys are phenomenal athletes or they never would have sniffed a pro roster made it. You can't be 300 pounds and expending all of your energy for 60 minutes without being an amazing athlete.

I played in the league, so I know what it takes. The mental toll is much tougher than the physical, there is a reason why they use terms like o-line & skill positions.

I know the fat guy wants to be an athlete but when you look at the term athlete it has always been associated with track & field. You needed to be in a room with Bill Walsh, coach would have showed you the difference in perception vs reality.

Football is the ultimate team sport, the only sport where a bunch unathletic guys can work together to stop the superstar in his tracks! Football is a state of mind, it's a committment!

the only sport where a bunch unathletic guys can work together to stop the superstar in his tracks! Football is a state of mind, it's a committment!

Oh my god.... are you serious? So how about you and 22 other webzoners get together and start your own team then? I am sure you guys will have the chemistry to get it done.

[ Edited by RichmondPete on Jul 28, 2011 at 16:01:45 ]
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Now when I look at JH's background and what he has been able to do at Stanford & San Diego you can see that he never really focused on (superstar) Athelete's meaning the fastest or the strongest players.

So now he wants to make sure that he is adding "FOOTBALL PLAYERS" and not just superstar fill-in's.

Ted Ginn would probably be the best athlete on the team, however we all know he is not the best football player on the team.

Football player = smart (do as you are coached/play within the system), tough, hungry guys that get it done!

Athlete = Speed, strength, physical ability is off the charts, more ME focused.

Am I right here?

I like this if this is the plan, Because I know he didn't have the best athletes at Stanford or San Diego.

Your thoughts?



I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever. The term "football player" is slowly replacing "blue collar". What does this mean? Does anyone honestly believe that Justin Smith or Heinz Ward is not an amazing athlete? Does anyone really believe that T.O. is not a good "football player"? Its a bunch of bulls**t.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

I don't have a bunch of time to get into it but Usaine Bolt is probably the best athlete in the world physically, however I doubt that he would make a good football player. Meanwhile my 11 year old could probably out run or jump Tom Brady yet he is considered the best Football Player.

Just for the record T.O, & Heinz Ward are trully what a football player is! Attitude and all, T.O has it all!

Justin Smith is a hell of a football player, but an athlete... Come on now!

Tom Brady is athletic. Having a deadly accurate arm is a part of athletics. He is also not the most mobile QB but he isn't Dan Marino either.

Usain Bolt is literally not a football player, so I don't see how that example proves anything.

Your telling me Justin Smith, a 6-5 300 pound man who can run a 4.8 and play non stop all game is not a good athlete? He was a top 5 pick when he was drafted. Show me a top 5 draft pick that does not have a dominant athletic trait and I will shut up.

Justin Smith is a football player!

Ted Ginn is an athlete, there is a huge difference.

So to you speed = athleticism. That is not at all what athleticism is.

Your definition of "football player" is stupid to be quite frank. They are both football players and both phenomenal athletes. Justin Smith is just better at what he does than Ted Ginn.

If you've ever known any person that made it into a pro sport you would realize that all of these guys are phenomenal athletes or they never would have sniffed a pro roster made it. You can't be 300 pounds and expending all of your energy for 60 minutes without being an amazing athlete.

I played in the league, so I know what it takes. The mental toll is much tougher than the physical, there is a reason why they use terms like o-line & skill positions.

I know the fat guy wants to be an athlete but when you look at the term athlete it has always been associated with track & field. You needed to be in a room with Bill Walsh, coach would have showed you the difference in perception vs reality.

Football is the ultimate team sport, the only sport where a bunch unathletic guys can work together to stop the superstar in his tracks! Football is a state of mind, it's a committment!

Lol what league? The NFL? HAHAHA. Can we keep going?

If you think that the term athlete means a track and field star than you never played in a pony league let alone the NFL.

Thses days you guys call Nascar drivers & Golfers athletes! The hotdog eating guy is an athlete these days...
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by glorydayz:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
Originally posted by 49erThrowback:
Originally posted by RichmondPete:
I really hate analogies like this. The best football players are usually the best athletes. Having leadership, good "character" and a clean background are bonuses, they do not make you a good football player whatsoever.

Why does a good athlete have to be more ME focused as you say? How does that assumption make any sense?

That's not what this is about. It's whether teamwork and good coaching can trump superior athleticism. Often it does.

Hell, the first Niners championship was won against an opponent that was probably athletically superior, and favored to win the game. Ditto Jets vs. Baltimore a few years before. Good teamwork and the right game plan can neutralize a team of athletes who play for themselves and not as a team.

Thats not at all what he said. He said good athletes are typically more ME centric. That good athletes are not typically "good football players". Guess what? everyone in the NFL is a world class athlete, that is not in question. No one on earth would argue that anything can replace efficient teamwork in football.

The point of the thread was to relate athleticism to character. They have absolutely no correlation. Teams absolutely NEED athletes to win. The 81 niners are no exception. A freakishly athletic secondary comprised of 3 rookies took them from a loser to a winner in 1 offseason.

Not talking about character, talking about the ability to play within a scheme and be coachable. It's one thing to run a 4.2 in a straight line, another to run a 4.2 in between the tackles with Ray Lewis on the other side. I'm talking about hunger!

The superstars goal is to get to the NFL and make millions, the gritty football players goal is to be better today than he was yesterday! His goal is to honor the game, hoping to be mentioned with the best someday instead of expecting to be mentioned with the best, or wonering why he isn't being mentioned with the best!

For the record, not all NFL players are world class athletes. Some are just dahm good football players!

For the record, if you are a starter in the NFL you are a world class athlete. You don't have to be fast to be an athlete.

"Athletes are more ME focused". That is relating athleticism to character no matter how you want to spin it.

You speak of athleticism as if it takes away from hunger, coachability, humbleness, and leadership. That is the problem I have.

Vernon Davis does not at all look natural catching the ball, he definitely isn't the smartest tool in the shed. He dominates with athleticism

Jerry Rice is the best of both worlds, he was an athlete that could play some football. What has VD dominated to this point?

Race car drivers are described as athletes as well right? I am in no way saying that ALL GREAT/GOOD athletes are ME focused. Look at Welker, Hienz Ward, Marvin Harrison I could go on & on. However a nice percentage R. Moss, Jackson (eagles), Primetime... I could go on & on, I doubt if JH wants to deal with that type of athlete!

Lol, WOW. you don't think a guy like Primetime would be welcomed by any coach on any team at any time? I am completely done. You don't need to get a hard on for the personality of every "football player" that you root for.

How many teams did Primetime play for when he was in his prime? How many teams let him walk in his prime?

Athletes serve a purpose in football, but it is never a good idea to build your team around the super star, build around football players and add a super star athlete ala prime time in SF (last super bowl) when you find that you are missing that piece.

Took multiple teams over the top into the superbowl. Please stop embarrassing yourself. There is a reason why everyone in the hall of fame is there.
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