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We should thank Brian Billick

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Stay within your own standards. Who did he exactly have in Bal to use on O? We all saw Trent Dilfer live and in person here and your telling me thats what he had to work with? We have better tools than they did on O and if we can get a coach that can figure out how to use the most freakish athlete at the TE position then we would probably be better off.

It's not necessarily a matter of who he had to work with. It's a matter of how can a coach be so inept at his supposed specialty? I mean, eight years presiding over an offense and you couldn't get them to be at least average?

There's no excuse for that.

***EDIT***

But since you mentioned it, the "no QB to work with" excuse is total crap. Trent Dilfer wasn't the best QB, but he was winning games. And Elvis Grbac, Kordell Stewart, and Steve McNair were all Pro Bowlers that played under Billick.

In the backfield he had Priest Holmes, and Jamal Lewis. At TE he had Heap.

His offenses sucked because he didn't know what he was doing. Not because he didn't have talent to work with.

I wouldn't be thrilled with Billick being hired, but at the same time, people seem to think that the ONLY reason he did well in Minnesota was because of Randy Moss. He was only there for Moss's rookie season. Even before than, the offenses he ran in Minneota finished near the top of the league. finishing in the top 10 in yards and points four times and the top 5 twice. Again, this is before Randy Moss.

In regards to the talent in Baltimore, it sounds like he had a less talented team than we do on offense. I don't really count Priest Holmes because he didn't really get going until he got to Kansas City. Jamal Lewis was a good back, who had one outstanding season. That leaves Todd Heap and a slew of good (McNair), but mostly average to terrible (Dilfer, Boller, Grbac, Stewart) quaterbacks and a front office that focused mainly on the defense.

I wouldn't be thrilled with the hire, but I won't write him off as a terrible offensive mind either.
McNair was on the backside of his career when he got to Baltimore and was injured a good part of the season. The rest of the QBs he had there were warm mush.

Billick actually did a very good job with what he had with the Ravens. He had great players on defense and he focused his game plans to take advantage of that strength.

If anyone cares to look at him realistically they would see he would be a very good hire: He showed very good offensive insight with one team and good defense with another. That sounds like a pretty well-rounded coach to me.

I don't know who might agree to come here next year but one can make just as strong a case for Billick as for Gruden. Since I have no illusions of Holmgren coming here to coach, I would be just fine with Billick as HC.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by Hctr:
Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
I don't want him to bring his low scoring style from baltimore here, we had enough of the baltimore nolanterry era.

edit: don't want jeff fisher either.

Hey unst4bl, don't pop off without knowing the facts. Here is Billick's track record when he was an assistant coach with the Vikings:

Assistant Coach

The Vikings made the playoffs during six of the seven seasons (1992–1998) that Billick spent with the team, and set several offensive records in the process. In 1998, Minnesota set a then-NFL record for most points scored in a season (556) (which has since been broken by the 2007 Patriots), and set a team record with 41 touchdown passes. His work under Minnesota head coach Dennis Green put Billick in the Sid Gillman coaching tree.

When he was a head coach, he played to his teams strengths and ended up with a Super Bowl ring. He wasn't the offensive coordinator for those Ravens teams, and they won according to the talent they had on the squad.[/quoNice bro

Billicks offensive teams sucked period, even if he had good stats in a few seasons with 3-4 pro bowlers on the vikings team.

The super bowl ring he has, came on the backs of the defense that year, the offense that year prob scored less per game than ours does.

so gtfo of here trying to use those lame stats, thats like people who use stats to say Alex smith is better than he really is.

Okay lucid moment hit me when I was reading your post...

1st) Does it really matter which side of the ball ANY coach rode to get their Ring? Teams generally get there because one side of the ball is performing at a high level. BUT... in this case the Ravens Offense was pretty good in the Big Game. Stop hating on their Offense just cause their Defense was the best of all time(Super Bowl era) it's not how you get there but what you do when you ARE there.

2nd)You poo poo the idea of him coming in as an OC(the gist of what I'm reading) because he had 3-4 Pro Bowl players at that time. The Pro Bowl players is pretty spot on. BUT we have our fair share of Pro Bowl capable Players as well. Vernon Davis and Frank Gore come to mind. Don't you think that with Billick as our OC using the Offense from that era of the Vikings coupled with Alex Smith we might be able to send one or two more to the Pro Bowl in addition? Like their Pro Bowl players before them, ours didn't get there on their own. Say what you want but Davis specifically, got there because Alex threw those Passes to him.

3)Alex has a pretty high percentage. Not QB rating. I'm talking specifically about the number of completions to the number of attempts. Last season he was in the top 10 for a good bit of his season(60.5%) and this year he's (59.5%) only one percent shy of what he had last year. His Red Zone stats are in the 80s' or 90s' even. That's not made up it's not bogus etc. Just admit you don't like the guy and move on. Don't waste another second thinking about it. You want him gone, there is nothing anyone can say or do to change your mind and it's off topic. I'm only posting about it cause you incited for it. Not that I'm butt hurt about it just sayin this is about Sing and Billick.

Alex IS better than you believe tho, stats aren't exactly proof of this. But then neither is your opinion. When you get paid the big bucks to make these decisions, I'll be more apt to take your word for it. And you likewise my word I'm sure. But I won't hold my breath.

~Ceadder

Well I mainly disagree with billick coming here because I want a fresh young mind, someone who will be creative week in and out. I don't want another coach who is defensive first, I want to see the niners score 25 points a week with ease.

1. I was saying he rode the defense to his one superbowl Victory. The Guy I was reply to was stating that Billick was an offensive genious, I was just stating that Ravens team the year of the superbowl a few years before, and a few years after sucked on offense no matter who was there.

2. I don't want him here period because we need to get out of this defensive mindset, and get with the modern age. Creative, put points on the board, put the nail in the coffin early.. Don't get conservative and sit on it when you are up 10.

I have been saying all year give alex good coaching, and he would look much better than he does now. Infact he looks much better this season than he has at any point in his career, yet the fans give him all the blame for a crappy TEAM season.

I wasn't hating on Alex, I was just making a comparison to the threads in which people post stats saying he does well, then someone always replies "but he is 1-5 this season"

3. lol read my other posts, if there is an option on this forum to do that. I like Alex, i think you are confusing me with susweel.

Bring in Harbaugh, or someone new.
[ Edited by unst4bl3 on Dec 13, 2010 at 8:19 AM ]
Originally posted by global_nomad:
Originally posted by blunt_probe:
Originally posted by global_nomad:
Originally posted by blunt_probe:
Billick seems like the type of hire the Yorks would make: dry and uninspiring.

you are going to rate the hiring now? Billick is a Super Bowl coach and he is outspoken, the beat reporters would be drooling if he got hired, you will have to watch the film just to hear what he says, instead of that being the same answer murmured over and over again.

Yeah, yeah, I know he was good with the vikings and had a Super Bowl 10 years ago. Then what happened? His loud mouth could never figure out how to produce a half decent offense, and wasted the ravens' D. So yes, I think he's a boring hire, and would probably be the cheapest big name.

maybe they can hire him as a President of Football ops!
In his interview on KNBR a couple of weeks back, he made it clear he is not interested in an admin position.
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
This inflammatory statement really gained some traction in good ol' NT lol! Go back and read Sam's first 3 posts and witness the subsequent fan boy hard on that was incited, then tell me this isn't the official "I want Brian Billick to coach the 9ers/have his anal babies" thread.

Way to plant those seeds Sam. I'll never underestimate your sneaky ever again

IMO, Brian Billick is one of the worst choices we could make at HC as he seems to need to walk into the ideal scenario to succeed.....sounds familiar We have our own version of Culpepper i.e: a dumbass that can throw 50 yard seeds while "gettin' his roll on" (Nate), but no Randy Moss' on this roster. The offensive lines...why bother making the comparisons; ours is injured but getting better, that's the most Canadian way I can think of to put it. Let's not even get into looking at his past defenses and compare them to ours because it's pretty much just embarrassing; we should be ashamed to call ourselves a 3-4 and that is also the most Canadian way I can think of to say that

Besides, every QB he ever had who performed, was a proven vet that he ran into by accident, or exhibit A back there; he never was able to draft and develop his own guy during his entire tenure as Ravens HC. That's all on him and the people he hired.
Ozzie Newsome runs the draft in Baltimore. That is not to say that the HC doesn't have input but Newsome has the final word and it is clear that Newsome has a better eye for defensive players than offense.
Correct me if wrong, but back then, Kyle Boller was pretty decent until all of the injuries derailed his Baltimore career.

???
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
This inflammatory statement really gained some traction in good ol' NT lol! Go back and read Sam's first 3 posts and witness the subsequent fan boy hard on that was incited, then tell me this isn't the official "I want Brian Billick to coach the 9ers/have his anal babies" thread.

Way to plant those seeds Sam. I'll never underestimate your sneaky ever again

IMO, Brian Billick is one of the worst choices we could make at HC as he seems to need to walk into the ideal scenario to succeed.....sounds familiar We have our own version of Culpepper i.e: a dumbass that can throw 50 yard seeds while "gettin' his roll on" (Nate), but no Randy Moss' on this roster. The offensive lines...why bother making the comparisons; ours is injured but getting better, that's the most Canadian way I can think of to put it. Let's not even get into looking at his past defenses and compare them to ours because it's pretty much just embarrassing; we should be ashamed to call ourselves a 3-4 and that is also the most Canadian way I can think of to say that

Besides, every QB he ever had who performed, was a proven vet that he ran into by accident, or exhibit A back there; he never was able to draft and develop his own guy during his entire tenure as Ravens HC. That's all on him and the people he hired.
Ozzie Newsome runs the draft in Baltimore. That is not to say that the HC doesn't have input but Newsome has the final word and it is clear that Newsome has a better eye for defensive players than offense.

All due respect but, I'm not sure I'm buying what you're selling seeing what Harbaugh has been able to do with the same personnel guy.

There's a lot of variables and I'm not going to pretend I have any form of inside knowledge of Ozzie and Brian's relationship, but 8 years is a long time and Harbaugh's impact was as immediate as it gets in the NFL. Not the be all end all argument of the year, but I can't ignore it either.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
(we need a [this] smiley. Sorry not to mock you just pointing out an obvious necessity.

ANYWHO... I would be all for bringing Billick in as an OC but I'm not certain that he'd be willing to come back to the League as a Coach if it isn't the Executive Chair. He is a Super Bowl winning Coach after all. And pretty much the only willing candidate that ran his own team and not someone else's. It would be a tough sell unless he was willing to help Sing get his coaching legs fully under him and at the same time get some work in to get prepared in his own right. Even so, that's an obvious error because we can't keep a legitimate Coordinator for longer than a year and we can't keep plugging in replacements out of the Assistant Staff.

Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by baltien:
Originally posted by E-49er:
I think what happen with the Ravens offense while Billick was there was the same thing that happened here since the nolan era started. Too many mistakes at the QB position. Billick had Dilfer,Grbac and Boller as his main starting QBs (anthony wright,jeff blake and chris redman bridged the gap betweeb Grbac and Boller.) We all know Dilfer was asked to just not make mistakes and then was pushed out after the Superbowl to make room for Grbac who retired after just 1 season with the Ravens after playing good in spot duty for the niners. We all know what happened when Boller started. The problem is when you miss at the QB position it sets your franchise back significantly.

If Billick can get the right QB under center for the 49ers if hired, I believe he has enough creativity from his OC calling days at Minnesota to make the 49er offense a formidable one. The other offensive weapins are in place.

I disagree, and am getting pretty alarmed with how the fans here will selectively dismiss a coach's ineptitude just because they think he'll be a good hire.

Brian Billick is a terrible offensive mind. Period. I don't really think it was that hard to call deep routes (in Minnesota) when you had Chris Carter and Randy Moss. He coached the Ravens EIGHT years and his offenses were routinely ranked near the bottom of the league.

I'm not sure if I understand why the same people that want Singletary fired after two and a half years because of his struggles with the offense, but openly support someone who had quadruple that amount of time to get it done and couldn't.

Why should Billick and Gruden get the "he didn't have a QB" pass but not Sing? Especially when they had way longer to show some progress?

Don't mistake this as support for keeping Sing, because I definitely want him gone.

But seriously.....I don't get it.

I think it's simply a matter of 'anybody but Sing' next year. We really need to get a top notch GM or it isn't going to matter.

See, this is what I don't get. For 2 decades we didn't really have a "GM". It was a shared responsibility between the more experienced Football men in the building. This was of course during Eddie D's time as the Owner. He even stated that we have MORE people in the building now than when he was the owner. This isn't counting the Stadium team. The problem we have is that we don't have many "Football" men in the building right now. Marathe as good as he is with contracts isn't a Football guy by nature. Sing knows players but he doesn't understand much about the day to day operations aspect. You can tell when he says that he has to go back to look at the film to see what he was thinking. A Football guy should be able to rattle it off with machine gun precision. "I was doing this because of this..." that's not to say he's not Football savvy he just doesn't understand yet. He's a work in progress. I think that is probably the sole reason the Players are still with him. He's a players coach who at the same time is Green. Hell coach Walsh had a guy in the building that really was a Football guy. Thos e kind of guys are needed too. But the problem seems to be that we have too many non Football men in the building and not enough experienced men. Rathman as good a player as he was? I'm not sure he qualifies. Manusky too.

But here is something that 49ers fans don't get. Not right now anyway. To get experience in this league you go with old recycled Coaches or you take your lumps and get someone green and let them grow into the position. I ain't saying I like it. But just stop and think for a moment. Should we Win out (doubtful as it is) Sing will have two .500 seasons. Coach Walsh wasn't even .500 in his first two seasons and he's "the Genius".

Not saying that Sing will even be mentioned in the same breath as the "Greatest of All-Time" like he would like to be someday known as. But we have to have some perspective here.

'79 team was 2-14 and '80 team was 6-10. I'm pretty certain that Bill could have gone someplace with this team. Even with Alex under Center. But that man had Coaching in his veins. He was a teacher at it's highest form and that helped him pass it along to his players. Sing doesn't have that to fall back on. He only has his experience and the teacher is going to take time to develop. I would hope that given the state of the League going into next season and an OBVIOUS competitive market for Football Coaches already, that maybe we could deal with one more season.

I don't like it any more than you guys, but it's HIGHLY doubtful, that we could even get Gruden, Billick or Cowher. It was doubtful coming into the season even.

I apologize for posting this, but I have been giving this a lot of thought. Maybe someone can give their perspective on who we'd go after if Sing were fired today and how we'd keep the rest of the league from pursuing them while we were. Especially with Minnesota, Dallas and the Broncos all looking and having more money at their disposal than the Yorks do.

Scratch that. Make that Dallas and Denver. I know the Vikings dome is insured but that top and all the wiring and electronics is going to be spendy.So we've got a stadium to fund and they have roofing issues. lol

~Ceadder

I heard Eddie D on 49ers.com he said we need a john mcvay type gm one that can attract top players and coaches(need new more experienced OC) he also said we need new qb he did not say get rid of singletary but he did not give him an endorsement neither. We kept Mike Nolan no winning suit wearing azz for years he never had record as good as 8-8 if Mike Singletary wins out that would be 2 years of 8-8 in his 1st two years not even Bill Walsh greatest coach of all time did that. Not since Steve Marriucci have we won nfc west and made playoffs we ran him outta town after he made playoffs.I hope 49ers mangement doesnt make same mistake twice. If we make nfl history and become 1st team to start 0-5 and make playoffs KEEP MIKE SINGLETARY. We need to stop changing coaches every year these players play hard for Mike Singletary he turned Vernon Davis from possible bust to a captain probowler and Patrick Willis is 1st 49ers defender since Ronnie Lott to make ProBowl 3 straight times
As much as I want to win this division, I am worried that these last few games are going to give the ownership a false sense of Singeltary as a coach. I still dont think he is the best fit for this team, but because the team is more talented than the last 3 out of 4 opponents, I think he might save his job.
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
This inflammatory statement really gained some traction in good ol' NT lol! Go back and read Sam's first 3 posts and witness the subsequent fan boy hard on that was incited, then tell me this isn't the official "I want Brian Billick to coach the 9ers/have his anal babies" thread.

Way to plant those seeds Sam. I'll never underestimate your sneaky ever again

IMO, Brian Billick is one of the worst choices we could make at HC as he seems to need to walk into the ideal scenario to succeed.....sounds familiar We have our own version of Culpepper i.e: a dumbass that can throw 50 yard seeds while "gettin' his roll on" (Nate), but no Randy Moss' on this roster. The offensive lines...why bother making the comparisons; ours is injured but getting better, that's the most Canadian way I can think of to put it. Let's not even get into looking at his past defenses and compare them to ours because it's pretty much just embarrassing; we should be ashamed to call ourselves a 3-4 and that is also the most Canadian way I can think of to say that

Besides, every QB he ever had who performed, was a proven vet that he ran into by accident, or exhibit A back there; he never was able to draft and develop his own guy during his entire tenure as Ravens HC. That's all on him and the people he hired.
Ozzie Newsome runs the draft in Baltimore. That is not to say that the HC doesn't have input but Newsome has the final word and it is clear that Newsome has a better eye for defensive players than offense.

All due respect but, I'm not sure I'm buying what you're selling seeing what Harbaugh has been able to do with the same personnel guy.

There's a lot of variables and I'm not going to pretend I have any form of inside knowledge of Ozzie and Brian's relationship, but 8 years is a long time and Harbaugh's impact was as immediate as it gets in the NFL. Not the be all end all argument of the year, but I can't ignore it either.
Harbaugh has Flacco, though not a Pro Bowler, has proven to be a more reliable QB than any of those that came before. So perhaps Flacco was a lucky pick by Newsome but he is definitely better than any of those Billick had to work with.

I'm not convinced Billick is THE guy but he should be just as much a part of the conversation as any other candidate out there.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Correct me if wrong, but back then, Kyle Boller was pretty decent until all of the injuries derailed his Baltimore career.

???

I know they had issues at WR similar to our own for years, which is something definitely worth mentioning, but as I remember it, Boller was inconsistent as hell...why is this all sounding so damn familiar

My memories of him are extremely faded though. On to youtube...(Insert THE JOKE here)

Meh! The video (tee hee) says my blackberry sucks. Just going off of memory his inconsistency wasn't just a week to week thing, but inside of individual drives he'd go from to More of a head thing, again as I remember it.
[ Edited by NatralBrnThrila on Dec 13, 2010 at 9:08 AM ]
Wait. So because Billick didn't run the draft while in Baltimore, it's NOT his fault as 1) Head Coach and 2) Offensive "guru" and sometimes playcaller that the Ravens couldn't score points?

By that logic we should give Sing another five years because he didn't draft any of the QB's currently on the roster.

I mean hell, why not?
We have enough talent that if a real coach were to come in here, we could be turned around in one offseason...providing we nab a consistent QB either through free agency or draft.
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Correct me if wrong, but back then, Kyle Boller was pretty decent until all of the injuries derailed his Baltimore career.

???

I know they had issues at WR similar to our own for years, which is something definitely worth mentioning, but as I remember it, Boller was inconsistent as hell...why is this all sounding so damn familiar

My memories of him are extremely faded though. On to youtube...(Insert THE JOKE here)

Billick hired Bill Walsh disciple Jim Fassel to personally develop Kyle Boller.
  • ptw1
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 129
I live in bmore so I know a lot about Billick. He would be my 3rd choice behind JG and JH. If Jamal Lewis didnt get hurt in the preseason they would have easily won back to back super bowls. and of course, if that happen, Elvis may not have lost the love of the game and no telling how many more championships they could have won. Billick's offense in bmore isnt a reflection on him. He was working short-handed as the salary-cap was 60/40 in favor of the defense. In that situation, a top QB (which Elvis was close too) could make up the difference but an average to slightly above average QB can not overcome that. Eventually, his message wore on the players. I'm sure he's learned from being away from the game. He would be a significant up-grade as a coach from the 9ers past few coaches.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Correct me if wrong, but back then, Kyle Boller was pretty decent until all of the injuries derailed his Baltimore career.

???

I know they had issues at WR similar to our own for years, which is something definitely worth mentioning, but as I remember it, Boller was inconsistent as hell...why is this all sounding so damn familiar

My memories of him are extremely faded though. On to youtube...(Insert THE JOKE here)

Billick hired Bill Walsh disciple Jim Fassel to personally develop Kyle Boller.

...That is NOT, "THE JOKE" just kidding dude. I hear ya, but that statement can be twisted a number of different ways and I'm not gonna touch it.

Simply put, I wouldn't F that statement with your D; I'm far too classy...unless your statement was a +size momma with too much gin in her. Woot!