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What if Alex Smith was drafted by Andy Reid?

  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by Shaj:


You have a fallacy in your logic. You are assuming

Smith would have laid eggs no matter the circumstances.

Pot

Kettle
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
The reason of this thread is not to discuss Alex's flaws. We already all know them and discussed the hell out of them over the years. I brought this up because I don't think there is any other coach in this league that could have made gold out of Kolb. I think Kolb is pretty average and he is only succeeding because of Reid's system and tutilage. I would bet anything if the Eagles let Kolb go and keep Vick, he will not succeed anywhere else. He is like another Matt Cassell to me. The Chiefs have had Cassell for 3 years now and he still isn't doing that great. The Chiefs are winning, but it's not because of him. I personally think Reid could have made Alex a great QB if he could make a guy like Kolb a good one.

Agreed. Not sure about great (really, who knows) but anyone saying he wouldn't have made Smith better (or even just the consistency alone wouldn't have made Smith better) is too blinded by their hatred of Smith to even be slightly reasonable about how modest the proposition is, imo.

How can Andy Ried fix his accuracy problems ??

Alex is more accurate than McChoke, and 'Choke did fine with Reid.

McNabb has one of the highest TD-INT ratio in the history of the NFL. Alex not so much.

You see the difference. McNabb doesn't make criticial mistakes, Alex makes them left and right. You guys are ignoring one criticial fact about Andy Reid. He doesn't put all of his eggs into one basket. If Alex ain't picking things up and playing at high level he'd have him replaced in a half a second. It's not like Philly has had wealth at receiver position either. Desean, Maclin they're new before that he's had 1 1,000 yard receiver and we all know that circumstance.
[ Edited by tjd808185 on Oct 30, 2010 at 9:35 AM ]
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Originally posted by Shaj:
he would have been cut in 2007 or 2008, injury or no injury.

/thread

I think you are wrong. If Reid can make Kolb a good QB, then I think he could have done the same with Smith. When given time, Smith can make some nice throws. His consistency sucks, but I think Reid would have smoothed out that wrinkle in his game.

Sorry he is dead on correct, In the The West cost offense a QB has to be able to play under center, the timing of the short pass routes is synced to footwork of the Qb in his drop back. Alex was horrible in Mike Macarthy's West coast offense his rookie year, remember?
Originally posted by Shaj:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Rodgers= exactly how you develop a QB and help your franchise.

Smith= exactly how you fvck up a QB and set back your franchise.

The answer to the OPs question lies in Green Bay. Rodgers went through the exact opposite of what Smith went through and the results show. Obviously Rodgers was more pro ready so it's not a total apples to apples comparison but it's safe to assume Alex would be FAR better off had him and Rodgers switched places.

You have a fallacy in your logic. You are assuming that because Rodgers was groomed behind a future HOF and with staffing/system continuity, that he was therefore successful - when you cannot prove that he would not have been very successful coming straight out of the chute like Ryan, Roethlisberger, Flacco, and many others.

Smith would have laid eggs no matter the circumstances. He doesn't have leadership, instinct, or accuracy. Every one of those in and of themselves is a fatal flaw for a QB. Smith has managed to fail at all three. You could put him behind Montana for 5 years and still not see better results. Most notable is that leadership and instinct cannot be taught, and accuracy is damn hard to coach in someone who just doesn't have it.

I will give you Ryan as a good example coming right out of the chute. But QBs like Flacco and Rothelisberger were spoon fed great teams. Their job was to not screw up their system. Balt and Pittsburg both play great D and don't have to ask much of their QBs.
Originally posted by susweel:
He would have been cut by year 3.

wow...idiot.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Originally posted by Shaj:
he would have been cut in 2007 or 2008, injury or no injury.

/thread

I think you are wrong. If Reid can make Kolb a good QB, then I think he could have done the same with Smith. When given time, Smith can make some nice throws. His consistency sucks, but I think Reid would have smoothed out that wrinkle in his game.

Sorry he is dead on correct, In the The West cost offense a QB has to be able to play under center, the timing of the short pass routes is synced to footwork of the Qb in his drop back. Alex was horrible in Mike Macarthy's West coast offense his rookie year, remember?

I don't know a rookie QB that does well in a west coast system unless its dumbed down to the point where it's only "west coast" in name only. Smith's problem was the bad players around him and the fact that he went through multiple offensive systems in his first few years in the league. Remember in his 2nd year he did much better under a very good OC in Norv Turner. I'm sure if Turner would have stayed the Smith era would have gone differently.
[ Edited by taney71 on Oct 30, 2010 at 9:57 AM ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:


I will give you Ryan as a good example coming right out of the chute.

Not to knock Matt Ryan, but....

5th fewest sacks allowed.

Roddy White.

2nd best rushing offense. Turner and Norwood.

He had help, too. Team just couldn't play defense.
Reid would probably told him the keys to the franchise are his, then took the keys back after Alex's first 2 quarters as a starter.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by LAFortyNinerfan:
then took the keys back after Alex's first 2 quarters as a starter.

Wish Nolan did that. Kid was just so obviously not ready.

Should have just stuck with Rattay all season.

I guess hindsight is 20/20.

Still.... Ugliest performance from a rookie QB ever.
Philly fans would have stoned him to death in a home game....
  • Shemp
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 26,733
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Rodgers= exactly how you develop a QB and help your franchise.

Smith= exactly how you fvck up a QB and set back your franchise.

The answer to the OPs question lies in Green Bay. Rodgers went through the exact opposite of what Smith went through and the results show. Obviously Rodgers was more pro ready so it's not a total apples to apples comparison but it's safe to assume Alex would be FAR better off had him and Rodgers switched places.

You have a fallacy in your logic. You are assuming that because Rodgers was groomed behind a future HOF and with staffing/system continuity, that he was therefore successful - when you cannot prove that he would not have been very successful coming straight out of the chute like Ryan, Roethlisberger, Flacco, and many others.

Smith would have laid eggs no matter the circumstances. He doesn't have leadership, instinct, or accuracy. Every one of those in and of themselves is a fatal flaw for a QB. Smith has managed to fail at all three. You could put him behind Montana for 5 years and still not see better results. Most notable is that leadership and instinct cannot be taught, and accuracy is damn hard to coach in someone who just doesn't have it.

I will give you Ryan as a good example coming right out of the chute. But QBs like Flacco and Rothelisberger were spoon fed great teams. Their job was to not screw up their system. Balt and Pittsburg both play great D and don't have to ask much of their QBs.

none of these discussions change the fact that no matter what situations Alex would be put into, he lacks leadership, instinct, and accuracy. These are independent of all other factors that he is subject to. Those are three independently FATAL flaws in a QB, forget the implication of having this undesireable trifecta in the aggregate.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Originally posted by Shaj:
he would have been cut in 2007 or 2008, injury or no injury.

/thread

I think you are wrong. If Reid can make Kolb a good QB, then I think he could have done the same with Smith. When given time, Smith can make some nice throws. His consistency sucks, but I think Reid would have smoothed out that wrinkle in his game.

Sorry he is dead on correct, In the The West cost offense a QB has to be able to play under center, the timing of the short pass routes is synced to footwork of the Qb in his drop back. Alex was horrible in Mike Macarthy's West coast offense his rookie year, remember?
The overall talent on that team was considered to be less than on most first-year expansion teams. That year is not a good example of anything.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by waiting4number6:
If a player isn't any good. He isn't any good period. Alex could of had Bill Walsh as a HC, and he still would of sucked, cuz in short he sucks. Jeez. What kinda of question is that? My word.

Rich Gannon

Yes, most ignorant thing to be witnessed on a MB... Such utterance can only be face-palmed.

Not ignorant at all. You people make it seem that IF Smith played under one guy, he would have been a completely different quarterback. Are you basing this on the handful of games where Alex has looked good ? In his 6 years of miserable play, he only has maybe 2-3 games where he played like a real quarterback, and even in those 3 games he didnt play well in all 4 quarters.

And you think a guy like Reid would have made him a probowler ?

You people are delusional.........no wonder Berman and the gang laugh at us on MNF when they talk about the Niners still waiting on a 6 year vet to determine whether he's the future of the franchise or not.

But then again, what do those guys know about football, right ?

You lost me at "6 years of play..."

If you're going to bash a guy at least get your facts straight. Seriously how many times do people have to spell things out for you? Are you this obtuse and dense in real life within your interpersonal relationships or is this part of your message board "character?"

If you're in the league.........it counts. Nobody says that Steve Young's career started after Montana retired. He was on the roster. He watched gamefilm. He had time to learn. Smith didnt sit at home eating popscorn those years that he did not play. He had time to watch film and get some pointers from other guys playing the position. Dont excuse his "time off" as non-football related.

He's a 6 year vet, based on how much time he spent with the team. I know it makes life better for you guys to just label him a 3rd year player, cause its easier to swallow the misery he's put us through all this time, but that just not the case....
Are you honestly trying to say the quality of coaching during Smith's time with the 49ers is somehow comparable to the quality of coaching during the Montana/Young years?
Then it would be the Eagles that suck and not the 49ers!!
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Not even close.

Alex's biggest flaw is his inconsistency. This is not something we have seen only this year. This has been the focal point of his career, despite playing in numerous systems. And although a lot may come out and say that the systems themselves were the problem and/or the fact that Alex never had any continuity in any of them, that theory was debunked this season when.......despite having the SAME OC, the SAME playbook, and SAME player personnel.......Alex continued to be inconsistent.

Andy Reid would not have changed that.

Totally disagree... To me, the problems with Smith are as follows...

1) Organization in disarray....7 OCs already in his career and another to come.
2) Expectations. Smith came out early and was too immature to take control of a team right away.
3) Like many young QBs that come to a bad team, a bad OL helped give Smith an unhealthy fear of getting pummeled, which he was repeatedly in his first few years.
4) No real support from Nolan, the coach who drafted him.
5) No OC that has really tried to fit the Niner's offense to Smith's strengths. For example, Smith would probably do well with the Patriots or Saints because they tend to spread out their receivers more.

There are other reasons obviously and don't take the above reasons as excuses for Smith's poor play. My point is that Reid is an intelligent coach and would have recognized Smith's strengths and tried to take advantage of them, especially his mobility. The Eagles are one of the most stable NFL franchises and wouldn't have put the pressure on Smith early, would have tried to ease him in to the league, would have supported him, and would have groomed him so he wasn't prone to inconsistent play.
On the subject of organization; Mike Holmgren noted how detailed and organized Reid was even in his early days as an assistant on Holmgren's GB staff. He asked tons of questions and took meticulous notes, leaving nothing out. He was constantly looking at play design and schemes, constantly revising, leaving out old plays that didn't work and replacing them with new ones.

Holmgren credits Reid's work with Brett Favre in 1997 as QB coach as playing a large role in the polishing of Favre into a more controlled and consistent player. It led to a SB victory and MVP. Until then, Favre was an uncontrolled gunslinger.

Favre and Alex are extreme opposites. There's really no comparision between the two in any way shape or form.
The comparison was in the area of consistency.

Since leaving Green Bay and the system Holmgren/Reid instilled in him, Favre has largely regressed to the old inconsistent ways.

Childress is a former Reid coordinator. It's the same system.

Brett Favre's 41 years old. You're just not going to coach that guy anymore.
Favre began to revert back a bit during his year with the Jets. This year he has just been bad. Far too much of the old gunslinger days.