There are 104 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Offensive post-game analysis (Week 1)

With the exception of the 1 drive, the playcalling was horrible. It was obvious AZ was commited to stopping Gore, but we did little to adjust to their D.

Forget this run at all cost offense, we should be flexible. Hill isn't that bad of a QB when dinking and dunking his way down the field. He looked pretty good on that 15 play, 80yd drive that took up over 7 mins. The offense ACTUALLY moved the ball when they weren't FORCING the run. I hope SING/RAYE take notice of that 4th quarter drive and we see more of those in the future.
uhhhh hello









ahh there it is, I couldn't see my post earlier.......

[ Edited by AKfanster on Sep 13, 2009 at 20:49:39 ]
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by SF4EVA:
Originally posted by artiga1:
Originally posted by 9ermex:
it was maddening to watch how Raye did everything in his power to make us loose today, he was just trying to f**k this up time and time again, its pathetic to watch how a guy thats been in the NFL for like 50 years calls run run run and run run run and run run run i mean how the f**k he became an OC??? WE must do something about this, first test of the season for coach sing.

I disagree...we were trying to establish the run. The problem is the Cards knew we were gonna run the ball 60% of the time so they put 8 guys in the box...plus there D-line is far better than our O-line...raye wasn't trying to lose...we ran a lot but on 3rd down when we needed the 1st we passed the ball and got the 1st down

The 49ers definatley got some work to do before next week but I think we will be able to run the ball alot better against seattle

And why are you mad??? We won the game...


i could have sworn that we passed the ball much more than ran. People we have to continue trying to run the ball. it keeps the D honest. plus they really couldnt stop the pass.


I beg to differ. Im not so sure we passed as in "haha, we've been running all day on you guys, now we're gonna throw it". It was more of a "oh s**t....we were commited to the run all day an it didnt work. We've gotta score on this drive, so lets change it up a bit". I too would like to believe that this was the masterplan that Raye had figured all game. But the reality is we took a swing, and we missed bad. When the going got tough, Sing and Co. had to pull away from their offensive philosophy and let Hill do the damage.

On a great night like this, where our D kept the Cards off balance, it all seems milk and cookies. But if it were the other way around (as in Warner lighting us up), this team would be in shambles right now, and primarily because Raye called a horrible game.
Originally posted by derek_allen_02:
Originally posted by Allx9er:
not impressed with the play calling or the Oline play. hopefully the team will show some progress sooner rather than later

Oline and playcalling go hand it hand. If the o-line played better and gore had 100yrds rushing, nobody would be questioning the play-calling. Better o-line play = less questioning of the playcalling.

I'm no Xs and Os expert, but I feel like if the D keeps storming, untouched through the middle of the line then the OC needs to make blocking assignment adjustments. Or call plays take advantage of the D middle blitzing like that. And frankly, I didn't see a lot of adjustments.

I'm not calling for Raye's head or anything, but it worries me when I see our O line get that dominated for an entire game. Even if we did come away with a win.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Here is what I saw, minus volume at the sports bar here in Ohio:

1) Hill seems to always make it look ugly, but in the end, he wins. I don't know how far he can take us, but the guys always seem to rally in the end behind him, even if he is off for much of the game. Very solid final drive.

2) I paid a LOT of attention to the OL, and here is how I would grade them:
* Staley and Heitmann played well for the majority of snaps. I saw Staley beaten twice, but not cleanly. Heitmann was beaten once on a run play, and a mix-up on pass protection with an inside blitz. Staley controlled the edge in the pass rush well, but was mediocre in run blocking. Heitmann did a fine job orchestrating protection for the myriad of inside blitzes the Cards through at the Niners all day. Had a great block, along with Rachal, on Gore's inside TD run. Brilliant by both players.
* Rachal had an up and down day. Gore's TD run was beautiful. Had some nice blocks on downfield runs. Runs very well on screen plays. His continual problem is angles. He seems to be beat far too often (some that were embarrassing) with quick interior defenders, and will need to be more consistent to be considered a solid starter. A certain work in progress.
* Baas really struggled today. Did a nice job on a few interior runs, but, like Rachal, takes bad angles. Unlike Rachal, he does not have the athleticism to recover, and, gets burned way too often. A serious problem all day for our OL. However, he was not the worst.
* Snyder- All I can say is "Yikes"! Until that last drive, was absolutely abominable. Torched repeatedly around the corner all afternoon, missed blocking assignments on run plays, looked really stiff, and has to be replaced. I couldn't figure out which RT on the field played worse in this game, since both stunk up the joint. As much as the majority of the board hates Sims, I have never seen Sims play this badly in a game. The team has to take a serious look at Pashos this week, and honestly, I'd be surprised if Snyder starts against the Seahawks. Made me pray for the return of Kwame Harris or Anthony Clements.

3) The Niners have to solve their problem with teams stacking the box. Until the end of the game (and I have no idea why the Cards played back in the final drive), the Cards showed no respect to the passing game. Frank Gore is going to look like Al Gore running the football if 8 guys are stacked in the box on every down.

Dare I say the two most evil words in the world: Michael Crabtree. Whether it is him, or someone else who the defense has to take seriously, this is going to be a problem.

You should watch the game again from your TIVO.
You seem to love Heitmann and dislike Snyder, so I can see how you subconsciously came to these conclusions.

In a word, "no," Adam Snyder is not in danger of losing his job; let me break down what happened.

Snyder:
1) In the first half there was a jail break blitz from the Cardinals. Their linebackers got through and Hill had to step back a step or two, this allowed Snyder's man to get around him and come in for the sack.
2) There was a play action where Snyder had to block down on Dockett (one of the best in the game) because he committed to a hard inside move. Unfortunately, David Baas was pulling on this play action and he ran straight into Dockett on the opposite side of Snyder. This caused Snyder to lose Dockett (Snyder can't block Baas and Dockett at the same time). If Baas did not run into Snyder's man it looks like Snyder would have washed Dockett to the outside. That one goes on the scheme, not Snyder.
3) There was a running play that LOOKED like Snyder got stuffed and Gore was tackled in the backfield. What happened was that Vernon Davis had to block down on a 300lb defensive end. It didn't work, and Davis was thrown 7 yards backwards into the hole. Snyder was blocking his man just fine on the edge, but it might have looked like it was his fault while watching at a sports bar.
4) There was another play that looked like Snyder got blown up on a run block. Snyder had to block down and he did fine, but then a linebacker came in through the middle. It looked like a big mess, Snyder actually peeled OFF his man and tried to stop the linebacker coming through the middle. On live TV, it probably looked like Snyder got killed by this linebacker when in reality, this guy was not his man.
5) Earlier on a run, Snyder sealed the edge just fine, but a linebacker came in (on yet another run blitz, will Raye ever get a clue?) right into the hole, and Gore tried to bounce outside, but there was nowhere to bounce because the edge was already sealed by Snyder (it was through the hole or nothing). This may have caused you to blame Snyder again because it was officially "Snyder's man" who made the tackle.
6) In the second half, Snyder got beat badly on a play. I'm sure this particular play is one you remembered. Snyder stupidly was trying to get a last minute signal in, he was literally pointing and had his head turned looking to his left at the center while the ball was snapped. He was trying to point out a blitz pickup, but the ball was snapped and he was out of position and let the guy easily get around him. This was a bad mental error and not a physical one.
7) There was another play action where Snyder blocked his man as if he was run blocking, but his man didn't buy it and threw him aside and got in just as Hill was throwing the ball. However, I believe this was the long bomb play to Bruce, so it looks like it worked.
8) Snyder blocked down on a lot of the Cardinals blitzes, this looked like Scheme more than anything. He blocked down on Gore's touchdown catch, for example, which allowed the linebacker to come in free, but I guess it worked.

Snyder had a lot of GREAT blocks in the running game and blocked well in the passing game on the vast majority of his plays.
His job is nice and secure and he will remain the starter after the coaches watch the film.

Baas:
Baas looked very raw out there. He only had like 1 or 2 weeks of practice so I think we need to cut him some slack, he made some nice plays and was generally a strong blocker.

Staley:
Generally solid, but I was focusing on the other guys.

Rachal:
Messed up a few times. He gets fooled a little too easily and seems to have trouble with his footwork, I think he fell over himself once or twice.
He seems to struggle with our strange, slow developing running scheme.

Heitmann:
I'm not going to complain about Heitman, because he does too many things well for me to nit pick him. But...
He was bull rushed into the pocket multiple times.
He is good, but Pro-Bowl caliber? I don't think he is physically gifted enough.
Like I've always said about Heitmann, he does everything perfect, except he gets pushed around a little too much.

Lots of pulls, traps and play actions seemed to confuse our own team more than they confused the Cardinals. Our players were tripping over each other and many running plays took a LONG time to develop.

The Cardinals did what they should have done. Attack! Attack! Attack!
They run blitzed our line all day, and our slow developing plays were no match for their defensive scheme.

Our O-line played much better than this game might have indicated.
We were blowing people up many times, its just that we were outnumbered all day. Their linebackers and safeties were living in our backfield, and we rarely took advantage of this with aggressive passes.

I think we will learn a lot from watching the film of this game.
We really hurt ourselves a lot with slow developing plays, both in the pass and run.

Also, after watching the game again, Shaun Hill missed a lot of opportunities. There were open receives on many occasions.
He needs to play better.

But you're right MadDog. At 8-3, he just seems to know "how to win."
Relax its going to take a couple of weeks for Raye to feel out his players in game sittuations. He made some nice calls to win the game. Truth be told if Morgan would learn to catch with his hands and not his body we would have had a commanding lead. If hill had hit a wide open Walker running down the sidelines instead of that duck he threw. This game would have had a totally different feel to it.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Here is what I saw, minus volume at the sports bar here in Ohio:

1) Hill seems to always make it look ugly, but in the end, he wins. I don't know how far he can take us, but the guys always seem to rally in the end behind him, even if he is off for much of the game. Very solid final drive.

2) I paid a LOT of attention to the OL, and here is how I would grade them:
* Staley and Heitmann played well for the majority of snaps. I saw Staley beaten twice, but not cleanly. Heitmann was beaten once on a run play, and a mix-up on pass protection with an inside blitz. Staley controlled the edge in the pass rush well, but was mediocre in run blocking. Heitmann did a fine job orchestrating protection for the myriad of inside blitzes the Cards through at the Niners all day. Had a great block, along with Rachal, on Gore's inside TD run. Brilliant by both players.
* Rachal had an up and down day. Gore's TD run was beautiful. Had some nice blocks on downfield runs. Runs very well on screen plays. His continual problem is angles. He seems to be beat far too often (some that were embarrassing) with quick interior defenders, and will need to be more consistent to be considered a solid starter. A certain work in progress.
* Baas really struggled today. Did a nice job on a few interior runs, but, like Rachal, takes bad angles. Unlike Rachal, he does not have the athleticism to recover, and, gets burned way too often. A serious problem all day for our OL. However, he was not the worst.
* Snyder- All I can say is "Yikes"! Until that last drive, was absolutely abominable. Torched repeatedly around the corner all afternoon, missed blocking assignments on run plays, looked really stiff, and has to be replaced. I couldn't figure out which RT on the field played worse in this game, since both stunk up the joint. As much as the majority of the board hates Sims, I have never seen Sims play this badly in a game. The team has to take a serious look at Pashos this week, and honestly, I'd be surprised if Snyder starts against the Seahawks. Made me pray for the return of Kwame Harris or Anthony Clements.

3) The Niners have to solve their problem with teams stacking the box. Until the end of the game (and I have no idea why the Cards played back in the final drive), the Cards showed no respect to the passing game. Frank Gore is going to look like Al Gore running the football if 8 guys are stacked in the box on every down.

Dare I say the two most evil words in the world: Michael Crabtree. Whether it is him, or someone else who the defense has to take seriously, this is going to be a problem.

You should watch the game again from your TIVO.
You seem to love Heitmann and dislike Snyder, so I can see how you subconsciously came to these conclusions.

In a word, "no," Adam Snyder is not in danger of losing his job; let me break down what happened.

Snyder:
1) In the first half there was a jail break blitz from the Cardinals. Their linebackers got through and Hill had to step back a step or two, this allowed Snyder's man to get around him and come in for the sack.
2) There was a play action where Snyder had to block down on Dockett (one of the best in the game) because he committed to a hard inside move. Unfortunately, David Baas was pulling on this play action and he ran straight into Dockett on the opposite side of Snyder. This caused Snyder to lose Dockett (Snyder can't block Baas and Dockett at the same time). If Baas did not run into Snyder's man it looks like Snyder would have washed Dockett to the outside. That one goes on the scheme, not Snyder.
3) There was a running play that LOOKED like Snyder got stuffed and Gore was tackled in the backfield. What happened was that Vernon Davis had to block down on a 300lb defensive end. It didn't work, and Davis was thrown 7 yards backwards into the hole. Snyder was blocking his man just fine on the edge, but it might have looked like it was his fault while watching at a sports bar.
4) There was another play that looked like Snyder got blown up on a run block. Snyder had to block down and he did fine, but then a linebacker came in through the middle. It looked like a big mess, Snyder actually peeled OFF his man and tried to stop the linebacker coming through the middle. On live TV, it probably looked like Snyder got killed by this linebacker when in reality, this guy was not his man.
5) Earlier on a run, Snyder sealed the edge just fine, but a linebacker came in (on yet another run blitz, will Raye ever get a clue?) right into the hole, and Gore tried to bounce outside, but there was nowhere to bounce because the edge was already sealed by Snyder (it was through the hole or nothing). This may have caused you to blame Snyder again because it was officially "Snyder's man" who made the tackle.
6) In the second half, Snyder got beat badly on a play. I'm sure this particular play is one you remembered. Snyder stupidly was trying to get a last minute signal in, he was literally pointing and had his head turned looking to his left at the center while the ball was snapped. He was trying to point out a blitz pickup, but the ball was snapped and he was out of position and let the guy easily get around him. This was a bad mental error and not a physical one.
7) There was another play action where Snyder blocked his man as if he was run blocking, but his man didn't buy it and threw him aside and got in just as Hill was throwing the ball. However, I believe this was the long bomb play to Bruce, so it looks like it worked.
8) Snyder blocked down on a lot of the Cardinals blitzes, this looked like Scheme more than anything. He blocked down on Gore's touchdown catch, for example, which allowed the linebacker to come in free, but I guess it worked.

Snyder had a lot of GREAT blocks in the running game and blocked well in the passing game on the vast majority of his plays.
His job is nice and secure and he will remain the starter after the coaches watch the film.

Baas:
Baas looked very raw out there. He only had like 1 or 2 weeks of practice so I think we need to cut him some slack, he made some nice plays and was generally a strong blocker.

Staley:
Generally solid, but I was focusing on the other guys.

Rachal:
Messed up a few times. He gets fooled a little too easily and seems to have trouble with his footwork, I think he fell over himself once or twice.
He seems to struggle with our strange, slow developing running scheme.

Heitmann:
I'm not going to complain about Heitman, because he does too many things well for me to nit pick him. But...
He was bull rushed into the pocket multiple times.
He is good, but Pro-Bowl caliber? I don't think he is physically gifted enough.
Like I've always said about Heitmann, he does everything perfect, except he gets pushed around a little too much.

Lots of pulls, traps and play actions seemed to confuse our own team more than they confused the Cardinals. Our players were tripping over each other and many running plays took a LONG time to develop.

The Cardinals did what they should have done. Attack! Attack! Attack!
They run blitzed our line all day, and our slow developing plays were no match for their defensive scheme.

Our O-line played much better than this game might have indicated.
We were blowing people up many times, its just that we were outnumbered all day. Their linebackers and safeties were living in our backfield, and we rarely took advantage of this with aggressive passes.

I think we will learn a lot from watching the film of this game.
We really hurt ourselves a lot with slow developing plays, both in the pass and run.

Also, after watching the game again, Shaun Hill missed a lot of opportunities. There were open receives on many occasions.
He needs to play better.

But you're right MadDog. At 8-3, he just seems to know "how to win."

Excellent Analysis Brian.

It would seem scheme is the problem -which I don't don't doubt one bit. The play-calling almost lost the game when we go 3 runs in the shadow of our own endzone. Insane. What I'm reading from post game analysis is that Singletary thinks this was a good outing by the offense and I strongly disagree. Raye has got to figure this one out and if anything the interior blocking has to be worked on. Copy-cat league and everyone is going to watch this film as a training manual on "How to Stop Frank Gore." If we don't get Shaun throwing or interior/fast developing plays that picks up blocking appropriately, we're in trouble for the long run.
Is it just me, or did the pass loosen up the run? not the other way around...

In the beginning, we ran ran ran with no luck...
When we started passing more later in the game, Gore was actually gaining yards with the run. While it was not significant, it was still 3-6 yards...
So, the pre-season offense was just a tease and the team would let it all out when the season starts...?

Get used to it. This is the offense that MS has envisioned for years. I believe he feels his philosophy was completely vindicated.
Originally posted by carlgo:
So, the pre-season offense was just a tease and the team would let it all out when the season starts...?

Get used to it. This is the offense that MS has envisioned for years. I believe he feels his philosophy was completely vindicated.

as long as our he keeps our defense playing at a high level and getting three and outs, i think we'll be ok. in the end, all that matters is that our number of points is greater than the other team
The offense was pretty bad except for the two play sequence leading to Gore's first TD and the final TD drive. Vernon was an active participant, which must continue. It looked like Zona had a solid game plan to stuff the run and we couldn't adjust, short of abandoning the run.

Work in progress
  • 1stToFive
  • Info N/A
Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Raye is a joke. He is not an OC. He is a joke.






Pure and simple.

1. Please Explain
2. Did you watch the same game my family and I watched?
3. I thought he called a brilliant game!

Quick analysis because I have crap to do at work:

-Shaun Hill needs to step his game up. Yes, our O-Line played crappy, but he could stand to do MUCH better. When the pressure was on, he didn't move around AT ALL. He just stands there looking lost.

Also, I find it troubling that he missed some painfully easy passes (overthrew Delanie for what would've been an easy 20+ yards, consistently missed easy passes to Gore in the flat, and on screens). He made some pretty bad decisions too (a few passes into double/triple coverage).

Every defense we play won't be so forgiving. I expect much better next week.

-Vernon needs to get involved EARLIER in the game. The underneath routes were there pretty much the WHOLE GAME and Sing, Raye (or whoever) didn't decide to exploit it until the 4th quarter.

-Frank was looking very...timid. Again, yes our line played crappy, but some of the hits he took in the backfield was because he failed to just plow ahead and go when he had a lane.

Gore has never been a "shake & bake" kind of back, and I'd recommend he doesn't start to try it now. You're FRANK THE TANK man. If a defender is in your way, RUN HIS ASS OVER. Stop dancing around.

-Factoid: we actually passed more than we ran this game (31 passes, 22 runs). Still, Raye has to do a better job of mixing it up. Again, the underneath routes were there the whole game. Logic would tell you to KEEP EXPLOITING THEM UNTIL THE DEFENSE MAKES YOU STOP. 3 runs (up the gut no less) while backed up inside our own 5? C'mon Raye....

Still, when I sit back and think about it most of this stuff can be attributed to growing pains. This being a new offense, I didn't expect us to light it up in game one. We'll see what happens next week.

In closing I'd like to say that while it wasn't pretty, this was a HUGE WIN for us. We beat the reigning NFC champs, in their newly minted stadium.

This was a much needed boost of morale for us. GREAT start to the season -- let's keep it going!

Go 9ers!

[ Edited by baltien on Sep 14, 2009 at 08:26:55 ]
  • jerryricefan80
  • Info N/A
Gore needs to learn some patience. On some runs, there were cutback opportunities and opportunities to bounce it outside. The running game would be helped out a bit if he learned to let gaps and holes in the defense develop. They usually aren't there when you plow into the line 1 second after the ball is snapped. They should have him lineup a yard further back to help him out in this area.

I think it's going to be difficult to tell where we end up after this game. The offensive play calling near the end of the first half was terrible. Had us in field goal range, could have just run it and burned time off the clock. Not good.
sorry if its been mentioned before....but that play call on 3rd and 3 on the ARZ 3 was very nice play call.