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Hell must be freezing over...

Originally posted by mayo63:
The guy has been on IR the last 2 seasons give him a break.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,925
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.


Exactly! We don't want to be caught being fully invested in Shaun Hill. Let's find out what our future QB situation is.

Who give's us the best chance to win NOW? That is who should play. When put like that it is obvious that Hill should start the season.

How do you explain to the players that we aren't going to give you the best chance to win now because we want to find out about the future of Alex Smith. HCMS wont do it. If he does he is going against everything he has said up to this point.

I could see your thinking if we were a Super Bowl contender and we just needed a Qb to complete the team, but we're not and finding out if Smith has what it takes after two seasons of being hurt, have you, must be the teams primary goal for the season. We must know by next year if we have to go in another direction in the Qb position. The season will play that out.

Were the Cardinals "super bowl contenders" last year? I know we've sucked for awhile but we have a talented roster finally that can go the distance. Not saying they will, but we can compete and beat any team out there now.

Furthermore, our primary goal has been and always will be: winning super bowls (years and years of losing does tend to make you lower standards)

I think Hill has proven that he should be the starter and if he isn't getting the job done i have no problem giving smith another chance.

Therein lies the problem. Contrary to ninertalk belief, we do not have a talented roster that can go the distance.

**Our WR's aren't good enough to bring out the best in Hill (or Smith).
**Our QB's aren't good enough to bring out the best in our WR's.
**Our oline still has ???. Whether the zone wants to believe it or not.
**We have a new OC and a new system. That always seems to be an excuse at the end of each year. Yet, forgotten at the start of each year.


This without mentioning the defense.
Originally posted by mayo63:
I think Hill should be the last resort. Smith has the better arm, mobility the only question is whether he can get over his accuracy, and long ball issues and move the club. If he can't then we've exhausted everything from Smith and Hill then should come in a finish off the season and we look foward to taking a Qb high in the first round in next's years draft.

If Smith wants to play then he better win the competition. He shouldn't be handed the starting job just so that we can see what he can do. And having a stronger arm and better mobility don't mean squat if he can't deliver the ball accurately on a consistent basis.

Besides, I think Smith will benefit sitting out the year and focusing on learning the playbook.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.


Exactly! We don't want to be caught being fully invested in Shaun Hill. Let's find out what our future QB situation is.

Who give's us the best chance to win NOW? That is who should play. When put like that it is obvious that Hill should start the season.

How do you explain to the players that we aren't going to give you the best chance to win now because we want to find out about the future of Alex Smith. HCMS wont do it. If he does he is going against everything he has said up to this point.

I could see your thinking if we were a Super Bowl contender and we just needed a Qb to complete the team, but we're not and finding out if Smith has what it takes after two seasons of being hurt, have you, must be the teams primary goal for the season. We must know by next year if we have to go in another direction in the Qb position. The season will play that out.

Were the Cardinals "super bowl contenders" last year? I know we've sucked for awhile but we have a talented roster finally that can go the distance. Not saying they will, but we can compete and beat any team out there now.

Furthermore, our primary goal has been and always will be: winning super bowls (years and years of losing does tend to make you lower standards)

I think Hill has proven that he should be the starter and if he isn't getting the job done i have no problem giving smith another chance.

Therein lies the problem. Contrary to ninertalk belief, we do not have a talented roster that can go the distance.

**Our WR's aren't good enough to bring out the best in Hill (or Smith).
**Our QB's aren't good enough to bring out the best in our WR's.
**Our oline still has ???. Whether the zone wants to believe it or not.
**We have a new OC and a new system. That always seems to be an excuse at the end of each year. Yet, forgotten at the start of each year.


This without mentioning the defense.

Man all this losing turns even our true fans to idiots. O-line and D-line are our only glaring issues. Hill has proven he can win and our WR corps are far above average. If we can pressure the QB and open up running lanes for gore/coffey we can be very dangerous. How can you doubt that we are good enough to go the distance when the Cardinals almost won the SB last year? You think they're better than us? I don't.
Like Matt Maiocco said, we have two QBs that can very likely get it done this season. Other areas must play well... we don't have a QB yet (that we know of) that can overcome massive flaws around him. So may the better man show himself this August. Simple as that... and all the whining and insults is not gonna change the plan of our F/O. Show the maturity needed... suck it up, and deal with it like a man.

[ Edited by oldman9er on Jul 27, 2009 at 08:26:52 ]
Originally posted by mayo63:
The guy has been on IR the last 2 seasons give him a break.

lol...I know.

"Anyone who has watched the past two years..."

The guy played in a handful of games the season before last, half of those he was badly hurt and shouldn't have played and didn't play AT ALL last year....

...jeez...I'm not trying to make excuses for Smith, he may yet suck, but if your going to say something like that on a national publication, at least do SOME research...lol.
Originally posted by 49erScott:
Because I actually agree with Peter King on a 49ers related post

King's take.

6. I think I can't believe the sentiment out there for Alex Smith to win the 49er quarterback job. Unless Smith has had an arm transplant with Jay Cutler, how can anyone who has watched the last two San Francisco seasons think he's better than Shaun Hill? I'm not saying he can't win the job. But the sentiment in the Bay Area is so strong that Smith enters camp with the edge. It's not based on what has happened on the field. At all.

One of the greatest mysteries of the WZ and beyond... has any player performed so poorly and accomplished so little yet has been so vigorously defended and supported? I have never seen anything like it.

49erScott: I'm with you and Peter!!

I think it will be best if Shaun Hill starts and Alex sits on the bench. Lets try out what his college coach would recommend. Sit and learn the offense ENTIRELY and then maybe Alex will be FUNCTIONAL!!!
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.

At the risk of being bashed by some here, the 49ers took a QB in this draft, which contrary to what some think, has a ton of talent. If Hill and/or Smith struggles this year, it is possible that Nate Davis could take over next year and be a productive QB after spending a year learning the system, while a QB taken in next year's draft will have to learn the system and get comfortable before he could be productive, and if Davis looks like he's progressing well, why take another QB next year? I've seen him play live and in person, a lot, and I think he could surprise a lot of niner fans. I know a lot of folks here think he's no better than a practice squad QB, and I'm not saying he is the answer if Smith and/or Hill don't pan out, just saying from what I saw of him in his 3 years in college, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to do it, and do it well.
Originally posted by swim4speed:
Originally posted by 49erScott:
Because I actually agree with Peter King on a 49ers related post

King's take.

6. I think I can't believe the sentiment out there for Alex Smith to win the 49er quarterback job. Unless Smith has had an arm transplant with Jay Cutler, how can anyone who has watched the last two San Francisco seasons think he's better than Shaun Hill? I'm not saying he can't win the job. But the sentiment in the Bay Area is so strong that Smith enters camp with the edge. It's not based on what has happened on the field. At all.

One of the greatest mysteries of the WZ and beyond... has any player performed so poorly and accomplished so little yet has been so vigorously defended and supported? I have never seen anything like it.

49erScott: I'm with you and Peter!!

I think it will be best if Shaun Hill starts and Alex sits on the bench. Lets try out what his college coach would recommend. Sit and learn the offense ENTIRELY and then maybe Alex will be FUNCTIONAL!!!
This works for me if need be. I suspect, however, that Alex will have entirely learned this familiar offense. Maybe that's far from likely, not sure. Guess we will find out soon just how far along Alex is.
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.

At the risk of being bashed by some here, the 49ers took a QB in this draft, which contrary to what some think, has a ton of talent. If Hill and/or Smith struggles this year, it is possible that Nate Davis could take over next year and be a productive QB after spending a year learning the system, while a QB taken in next year's draft will have to learn the system and get comfortable before he could be productive, and if Davis looks like he's progressing well, why take another QB next year? I've seen him play live and in person, a lot, and I think he could surprise a lot of niner fans. I know a lot of folks here think he's no better than a practice squad QB, and I'm not saying he is the answer if Smith and/or Hill don't pan out, just saying from what I saw of him in his 3 years in college, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to do it, and do it well.

Nate will have to learn the Niners offense with a big learning disability. He did it at the lower levels, but will he be able to do it at the highest level? Will it translate to the field? And on game days?
Smith is on the roster and I'm willing to give him a shot eventhough I think Hill is going to win in the end. The problem I have with Smith is that he just doesn't seem to have that special thing to be a winner and I doubt that he ever will, but I hope I'm wrong.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.

Think of the implications to letting him get "one last chance". This team is ready to win now and we should put in the QB that gives us the best shot. We shouldn't join the McCloughan bandwagon who wants Smith to succeed and any cost cause he f**ked up and drafted him at #1.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,925
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by mayo63:
Originally posted by cooljon16:
Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.


Exactly! We don't want to be caught being fully invested in Shaun Hill. Let's find out what our future QB situation is.

Who give's us the best chance to win NOW? That is who should play. When put like that it is obvious that Hill should start the season.

How do you explain to the players that we aren't going to give you the best chance to win now because we want to find out about the future of Alex Smith. HCMS wont do it. If he does he is going against everything he has said up to this point.

I could see your thinking if we were a Super Bowl contender and we just needed a Qb to complete the team, but we're not and finding out if Smith has what it takes after two seasons of being hurt, have you, must be the teams primary goal for the season. We must know by next year if we have to go in another direction in the Qb position. The season will play that out.

Were the Cardinals "super bowl contenders" last year? I know we've sucked for awhile but we have a talented roster finally that can go the distance. Not saying they will, but we can compete and beat any team out there now.

Furthermore, our primary goal has been and always will be: winning super bowls (years and years of losing does tend to make you lower standards)

I think Hill has proven that he should be the starter and if he isn't getting the job done i have no problem giving smith another chance.

Therein lies the problem. Contrary to ninertalk belief, we do not have a talented roster that can go the distance.

**Our WR's aren't good enough to bring out the best in Hill (or Smith).
**Our QB's aren't good enough to bring out the best in our WR's.
**Our oline still has ???. Whether the zone wants to believe it or not.
**We have a new OC and a new system. That always seems to be an excuse at the end of each year. Yet, forgotten at the start of each year.


This without mentioning the defense.

Man all this losing turns even our true fans to idiots. O-line and D-line are our only glaring issues. Hill has proven he can win and our WR corps are far above average. If we can pressure the QB and open up running lanes for gore/coffey we can be very dangerous. How can you doubt that we are good enough to go the distance when the Cardinals almost won the SB last year? You think they're better than us? I don't.


Your constant mentioning of the Cardinals as to why we can go to the superbowl proves your 1st sentence.

To get to the superbowl you either need a great offense or a great defense. Arizona had a great offense.

We don't have either!
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,925
Originally posted by Norcal9erfan:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.

Think of the implications to letting him get "one last chance". This team is ready to win now and we should put in the QB that gives us the best shot. We shouldn't join the McCloughan bandwagon who wants Smith to succeed and any cost cause he f**ked up and drafted him at #1.

I honestly don't see us winning this year regardless of the QB. I don't see us winning a superbowl with Shaun Hill. I think Shun Hill has already reached his ceiling. What you see is what you get. So why stagger around the .500 mark and hope to sneak into the playoffs? I rather actually try and build a team that can win it all. Even If it means "throwing away" a year or 2.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,925
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by mayo63:
It's obvious this is his last chance so let's see what the guy can do. If he does good than we don't have to worry about taking a Qb in next years draft.

In all honesty I think it boils down to that. Hill certainly isn't our long term answer. Why not give Smith one last chance. If Smith shows something, we may not need to take a QB next year. If Smith struggles or if Hill starts in my opinion we do need to take a QB next year.

At the risk of being bashed by some here, the 49ers took a QB in this draft, which contrary to what some think, has a ton of talent. If Hill and/or Smith struggles this year, it is possible that Nate Davis could take over next year and be a productive QB after spending a year learning the system, while a QB taken in next year's draft will have to learn the system and get comfortable before he could be productive, and if Davis looks like he's progressing well, why take another QB next year? I've seen him play live and in person, a lot, and I think he could surprise a lot of niner fans. I know a lot of folks here think he's no better than a practice squad QB, and I'm not saying he is the answer if Smith and/or Hill don't pan out, just saying from what I saw of him in his 3 years in college, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to do it, and do it well.

I think this scenario was the reason Davis was a wasted pick. If Hill and Smith struggle we are going to draft a guy high next year. Meaning they are going to be getting paid too much to let Davis play. If Hill or Smith plays good. Davis still won't get to play. So he's in a no win situation.