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OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY: Most Important

Believe all are over-analyzing the problems. It could be as simple as being slow due to the natural learning curve. The mistakes Iupati is making in recognition is natural when switching to a zone scheme. The question then becomes how many games will it take to master these new techniques? I would guess that they will have difficulty for at least the first four or five games of the season but then begin to develop chemistry together. Just hope Smith is still standing by that time!

Harbaugh said there are six or seven players capable of being NFL linemen. That leaves Wragge out (I had hoped he could compete at C) and it means that the guys they are starting and Snyder are the 6 keys to the season. If Kilgore was ready that would have made eight...assuming Boone is in the top seven. So, perhaps all is not lost and the line will reach their considerable potential.
Damn, anybody watch that Colts/Packers game? -Green Bay's starting o-line was getting torched (against Indy's starters) almost worse than ours had been against the Texans (and Indy's pass-rush is almost half of what it used to be 3 years ago).

Our o-line might be bad, but I think it's a 50/50 deal; Houston is going to destroy the NFL with that defense this year (even their second stringers were mangling other teams up; Wade's scheme is solid).
[ Edited by SnakePlissken on Aug 30, 2011 at 9:30 PM ]
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Not great? He was absolutely the worst lineman in all of football at RT and RG for three years. And worse by nearly another 50% based on QB pressures and sacks. That's what I'm talking about.

Again, he was our best RG last season. RT is where he was lacking...and even there he was better than Kwame. I'm sure you can find the run averages and QB averages when the line had Snyder in last season vs Rachal.

Baas was the one that sucked at guard. Amazingly he did well at center.

This is your assertion. Back it up.

I believe I replied to your unsupported assertion.

Or in other words, you first.


The article linked below states Snyder's holding the bottom rung in pass blocking in three years of play, 2008-1010. This includes his play at right guard last year. I understand why you might shy away from stating that Snyder was an improvement at RG over Rachal given that Snyder started just two games and didn't finish the second game after suffering an ankle sprain. Also, since Rachal has been at least minimally better than Snyder this preseason . . . good luck.



First of the worst

Adam Snyder Pass Blocking Snaps: 1129; Total pressures: 103.



Snyder is worst



By the way, Rachal did not appear on either the top 20 or bottom 20 in pass blocking for guards in 2010. David Baas rated as the fifth worst center in pass blocking in 2010.

Hofer, you just provided no proof to support your argument. We're talking about right now, Snyder is the best option, and with our own eyes we noticed a positive difference when he played last year instead of Rachal. We're not concerned with 2008 and 2009, where he was a younger player and playing at T where we all agree he is not good at all. The point people are making is you're trying to support the argument with a three-year average. That three year average is irrelevant to the present. It doesn't compare Rachal and Snyder on the same level.

If you could show us a straight up comparison of Rachal vs. Snyder 2010, that would be PERFECT in supporting the discussion, but I haven't seen that.

Snyder did not appear in the bottom 20 either, according to this site, so he could've been better than Rachal last year.

Edit: By the way, an interesting stat - Davis Baas was the 6th worst pass-blocking center according to this site.

Clock,
And my point is that the only objective evidence that anyone has produced states that Snyder has been the worst offensive lineman over a three-year timeframe, not just one game last year. Yours and others' claims that Snyder is better than Rachal right now is based on no objective evidence. The subjective and anecdotal observations of several here in this thread note that Rachal has been the best Olinemen in preseason. With this as your evidence Snyder should replace Iupati.

Snyder didn't appear in the bottom 20 last season as a guard because he didn't play enough snaps to qualify. One game. One game. He played one game. The only other game Snyder started at guard he couldn't finish due to spraining his ankle. If that's the track record you wish to stake your claim on, I believe you could make almost any claim about any two players.
Word is that Snyder has been replaced with Goodwin as the starting center. Maybe now we can put Snyder at RG to get Chilo on the bench.
Originally posted by backontop:
Word is that Snyder has been replaced with Goodwin as the starting center. Maybe now we can put Snyder at RG to get Chilo on the bench.

Hopefully that would improve us at 2 positions. Now what to do with the other 3?.....
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Word is that Snyder has been replaced with Goodwin as the starting center. Maybe now we can put Snyder at RG to get Chilo on the bench.

Hopefully that would improve us at 2 positions. Now what to do with the other 3?.....

Other 3? Iyoupotty isn't a problem though. Boone needs to replace either Davis or Staley.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Word is that Snyder has been replaced with Goodwin as the starting center. Maybe now we can put Snyder at RG to get Chilo on the bench.

Hopefully that would improve us at 2 positions. Now what to do with the other 3?.....

Other 3? Iyoupotty isn't a problem though. Boone needs to replace either Davis or Staley.

We need to replace both Davis and Staley...
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
The subjective and anecdotal observations of several here in this thread note that Rachal has been the best Olinemen in preseason. With this as your evidence Snyder should replace Iupati.

I am certainly one that feels Rachal has been our best OL in this pre-season. I of course do not want Snyder to replace Rachal at this time... but I want him ready to if Rachal regresses... because Snyder did a solid job there at RG last season. I don't yet want him replacing Iupati either. I want Iupati to improve awareness on who to block in zone... and to not over-run block assignments when pulling or going 2nd level. Iupati is generally good though, and I would hesitate long before yanking him out just yet. If he needs extra coaching, they should provide that to him... if he needs to stay after practice, his arse better do so to pick up extra reps.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Damn, anybody watch that Colts/Packers game? -Green Bay's starting o-line was getting torched (against Indy's starters) almost worse than ours had been against the Texans (and Indy's pass-rush is almost half of what it used to be 3 years ago).

Our o-line might be bad, but I think it's a 50/50 deal; Houston is going to destroy the NFL with that defense this year (even their second stringers were mangling other teams up; Wade's scheme is solid).

I agree that Houston will be a very strong team. Their greatest need was improving the secondary and they did that by getting Joseph. Also, the pass rush schemes that Phillips brings will but enough pressure on the opposing offense to make the secondary look even better. I like Houston to win their division and get to the AFC Championship game. Their offense has more than enough fire power and with the improved defense they will shut down a lot of teams.
Chilo is a disgrace to #62




Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Clock,
And my point is that the only objective evidence that anyone has produced states that Snyder has been the worst offensive lineman over a three-year timeframe, not just one game last year. Yours and others' claims that Snyder is better than Rachal right now is based on no objective evidence. The subjective and anecdotal observations of several here in this thread note that Rachal has been the best Olinemen in preseason. With this as your evidence Snyder should replace Iupati.

Snyder didn't appear in the bottom 20 last season as a guard because he didn't play enough snaps to qualify. One game. One game. He played one game. The only other game Snyder started at guard he couldn't finish due to spraining his ankle. If that's the track record you wish to stake your claim on, I believe you could make almost any claim about any two players.

How do you figure the argument we're making would dictate that we'd prefer Snyder over Iupati? That is a bit of a leap. Especially when you take into account that we are saying that Snyder was our best RG last year...not best LG. Is it anecdotal? Is it based on the parts of games and one whole game that Adam was in the line up? Sure..that doesn't make it wrong.

Yes, Rachal has looked better this pre-season than he did last year...but he also has been facing pre-season teams. Further, I'm simply calling for the competition of the two..not the immediate replacement of Rachal. Although, I do think Snyder would win the contest as Sing is not here anymore.

At the end of the day, I want the best player at each position. I don't care what their upside is unless it's a draw in the current time. Chilo has MUCH more upside than Snyder...I just don't think he played as well last year.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Clock,
And my point is that the only objective evidence that anyone has produced states that Snyder has been the worst offensive lineman over a three-year timeframe, not just one game last year. Yours and others' claims that Snyder is better than Rachal right now is based on no objective evidence. The subjective and anecdotal observations of several here in this thread note that Rachal has been the best Olinemen in preseason. With this as your evidence Snyder should replace Iupati.

Snyder didn't appear in the bottom 20 last season as a guard because he didn't play enough snaps to qualify. One game. One game. He played one game. The only other game Snyder started at guard he couldn't finish due to spraining his ankle. If that's the track record you wish to stake your claim on, I believe you could make almost any claim about any two players.

How do you figure the argument we're making would dictate that we'd prefer Snyder over Iupati? That is a bit of a leap. Especially when you take into account that we are saying that Snyder was our best RG last year...not best LG. Is it anecdotal? Is it based on the parts of games and one whole game that Adam was in the line up? Sure..that doesn't make it wrong.

Yes, Rachal has looked better this pre-season than he did last year...but he also has been facing pre-season teams. Further, I'm simply calling for the competition of the two..not the immediate replacement of Rachal. Although, I do think Snyder would win the contest as Sing is not here anymore.

At the end of the day, I want the best player at each position. I don't care what their upside is unless it's a draw in the current time. Chilo has MUCH more upside than Snyder...I just don't think he played as well last year.

Rachal has arguably been the best OL through PS to date. He lost a lot of weight and has been moving much better. He no longer looks like a ponderous bull dozer, and he has done it largely against the opponents #1s.
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Damn, anybody watch that Colts/Packers game? -Green Bay's starting o-line was getting torched (against Indy's starters) almost worse than ours had been against the Texans (and Indy's pass-rush is almost half of what it used to be 3 years ago).

Our o-line might be bad, but I think it's a 50/50 deal; Houston is going to destroy the NFL with that defense this year (even their second stringers were mangling other teams up; Wade's scheme is solid).

Suh is going to kill Rogers this year, literally.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:
Damn, anybody watch that Colts/Packers game? -Green Bay's starting o-line was getting torched (against Indy's starters) almost worse than ours had been against the Texans (and Indy's pass-rush is almost half of what it used to be 3 years ago).

Our o-line might be bad, but I think it's a 50/50 deal; Houston is going to destroy the NFL with that defense this year (even their second stringers were mangling other teams up; Wade's scheme is solid).

I agree that Houston will be a very strong team. Their greatest need was improving the secondary and they did that by getting Joseph. Also, the pass rush schemes that Phillips brings will but enough pressure on the opposing offense to make the secondary look even better. I like Houston to win their division and get to the AFC Championship game. Their offense has more than enough fire power and with the improved defense they will shut down a lot of teams.

I was suprised how well they ran on us in the beginning of the game. Not sure when the 2s went in, but our Dline was getting moved. Foster may end up being the real deal.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Suh is going to kill Rogers this year, literally.

Good, one less obstacle in our way, lol.