OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY: Most Important

Originally posted by Joecool:
I have a feeling when we run the real offense in a game, there will be more thinking to do and Rachal's performance won't be as strong.

See, this I agree with. Iupati's been showing 2 issues that need some work. (1) so fast that he overruns proper angles to make a block whether on 2nd level or pulls and (2) knowing which defender to block when in zone

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Good news: Goodwin is now officially the top C on the depth chart:


http://www.csnbayarea.com/08/30/11/49ers-notes-Goodwin-atop-depth-chart-at-/l_49ers.html?full_args=08/30/11/49ers-notes-Goodwin-atop-depth-chart-at-/l_49ers&blockID=556500&feedID=5936

GOOD NEWS..THANK YOU BASED GOD

Goodwin hasn't been great, but this had to happen. Snyder's value is as an interior backup. I'm glad he got lots of practice snaps at C, but we need to get that line to gel fast, and Goodwin has to be the starter, just because of his experience.

It also allows for more competition at RG...

Which should take about a month to evaluate.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Good news: Goodwin is now officially the top C on the depth chart:


http://www.csnbayarea.com/08/30/11/49ers-notes-Goodwin-atop-depth-chart-at-/l_49ers.html?full_args=08/30/11/49ers-notes-Goodwin-atop-depth-chart-at-/l_49ers&blockID=556500&feedID=5936

GOOD NEWS..THANK YOU BASED GOD

Goodwin hasn't been great, but this had to happen. Snyder's value is as an interior backup. I'm glad he got lots of practice snaps at C, but we need to get that line to gel fast, and Goodwin has to be the starter, just because of his experience.

It also allows for more competition at RG...

yup. and as surprisingly adequate as Chilo has been so far this offseason, we all remember Snyders superior play there.

I'm all for competition. But I hope the competition at Center is over. Lets iron this s**t out.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Which should take about a month to evaluate.

Might...but I'm okay with that...as long as we're not making 4 roster changes on the line.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Which should take about a month to evaluate.

Might...but I'm okay with that...as long as we're not making 4 roster changes on the line.

Not if Rachal is giving up pressure. Snyder would be an immediate upgrade over him.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Not if Rachal is giving up pressure. Snyder would be an immediate upgrade over him.

True...but that is a supposition. IF Rachal is blowing it, Harbaugh needs to respond and plug the leak.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Not if Rachal is giving up pressure. Snyder would be an immediate upgrade over him.

True...but that is a supposition. IF Rachal is blowing it, Harbaugh needs to respond and plug the leak.

That's just dirty.

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Snyder or Kilgore at RG. No Rachal, please.

Funny, I forget who, but some beat writer mentioned that Rachal was the best at pass protecting on Saturday. Man, it's that bad.

And Hey, who changed my title of MY thread, damn it? I know it was you Kid...I know you're lurking behind the keystrokes, man.

I'm sure everyone knows at this point that I'm not a fan of Rachal at all. Could probably say I borderline can't stand him even being here. That said, I don't know if I'm seeing what these other people are seeing.

I have not witnessed anything from Rachal that leads me to be optimistic about him starting at RG, but if he does, I sure hope he greatly exceeds my expectations, for the sake of the team.

I'm just hoping that there is some semblance of an O-line on Thursday. I was pretty excited for the game Saturday and was thoroughly disappointed. I'm sure that we will do well in this game because the Chargers wont be trying. I have a feeling that this year will be a lot of ups and downs.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Not great? He was absolutely the worst lineman in all of football at RT and RG for three years. And worse by nearly another 50% based on QB pressures and sacks. That's what I'm talking about.

Again, he was our best RG last season. RT is where he was lacking...and even there he was better than Kwame. I'm sure you can find the run averages and QB averages when the line had Snyder in last season vs Rachal.

Baas was the one that sucked at guard. Amazingly he did well at center.

This is your assertion. Back it up.

I believe I replied to your unsupported assertion.

Or in other words, you first.

The article linked below states Snyder's holding the bottom rung in pass blocking in three years of play, 2008-1010. This includes his play at right guard last year. I understand why you might shy away from stating that Snyder was an improvement at RG over Rachal given that Snyder started just two games and didn't finish the second game after suffering an ankle sprain. Also, since Rachal has been at least minimally better than Snyder this preseason . . . good luck.

First of the worst
Adam Snyder Pass Blocking Snaps: 1129; Total pressures: 103.

Snyder is worst

By the way, Rachal did not appear on either the top 20 or bottom 20 in pass blocking for guards in 2010. David Baas rated as the fifth worst center in pass blocking in 2010.

The starting OL should play at least the first half, no shifting positions, no substitutions. Keep them working, keep them repeating, keep moving the ball.
Let them get a sense that they are the starting five and let that be the way they take it to the start of the season. I like Boone as much as anyone, he's got a world of talent and more upside than Davis, but he has to be in the lineup a while to earn the job.

Basically, Harbaugh, probably well intentioned, monkeyed too much with the OL and they lack cohesion as a result. Once you get a set group, they tend to bond and work hard together. Has anyone seen that? They are also behind the 8-ball due to the lockout and the new offense. There's nothing that can undo that, but working the starting five will go a long way towards putting a better line on the field when the season opens.

Who do you think should be the starting five?

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Not great? He was absolutely the worst lineman in all of football at RT and RG for three years. And worse by nearly another 50% based on QB pressures and sacks. That's what I'm talking about.

Again, he was our best RG last season. RT is where he was lacking...and even there he was better than Kwame. I'm sure you can find the run averages and QB averages when the line had Snyder in last season vs Rachal.

Baas was the one that sucked at guard. Amazingly he did well at center.

This is your assertion. Back it up.

I believe I replied to your unsupported assertion.

Or in other words, you first.

The article linked below states Snyder's holding the bottom rung in pass blocking in three years of play, 2008-1010. This includes his play at right guard last year. I understand why you might shy away from stating that Snyder was an improvement at RG over Rachal given that Snyder started just two games and didn't finish the second game after suffering an ankle sprain. Also, since Rachal has been at least minimally better than Snyder this preseason . . . good luck.



First of the worst

Adam Snyder Pass Blocking Snaps: 1129; Total pressures: 103.



Snyder is worst



By the way, Rachal did not appear on either the top 20 or bottom 20 in pass blocking for guards in 2010. David Baas rated as the fifth worst center in pass blocking in 2010.

Hofer, you just provided no proof to support your argument. We're talking about right now, Snyder is the best option, and with our own eyes we noticed a positive difference when he played last year instead of Rachal. We're not concerned with 2008 and 2009, where he was a younger player and playing at T where we all agree he is not good at all. The point people are making is you're trying to support the argument with a three-year average. That three year average is irrelevant to the present. It doesn't compare Rachal and Snyder on the same level.

If you could show us a straight up comparison of Rachal vs. Snyder 2010, that would be PERFECT in supporting the discussion, but I haven't seen that.

Snyder did not appear in the bottom 20 either, according to this site, so he could've been better than Rachal last year.

Edit: By the way, an interesting stat - Davis Baas was the 6th worst pass-blocking center according to this site.

Originally posted by JW40NINER:
The starting OL should play at least the first half, no shifting positions, no substitutions. Keep them working, keep them repeating, keep moving the ball.
Let them get a sense that they are the starting five and let that be the way they take it to the start of the season. I like Boone as much as anyone, he's got a world of talent and more upside than Davis, but he has to be in the lineup a while to earn the job.

Basically, Harbaugh, probably well intentioned, monkeyed too much with the OL and they lack cohesion as a result. Once you get a set group, they tend to bond and work hard together. Has anyone seen that? They are also behind the 8-ball due to the lockout and the new offense. There's nothing that can undo that, but working the starting five will go a long way towards putting a better line on the field when the season opens.

Who do you think should be the starting five?

Welcome!

Anthony Davis has more upside than Boone (which is why he was a 1st round pick). Boone has played more consistently (against #2s) and hasn't been exposed yet. He is a perfect fit for a swing/back up tackle.

Starting Five (Backup):

Staley (Boone) - Iupati (Kilgore/Wragge) - Goodwin (Snyder/Wragge) - Snyder (Kilgore/Wragge) - Davis (Boone)

Cut: Rachal

PS: Person, Beeler

I'm hoping by the end of the year Kilgore can unseat Snyder for the RG spot. Then we can have some continuity and depth for awhile. But unless we see some serious improvement from this group, it's hard to assume anything from them.

We go as they do, if they can play effectively (up to their potential), we have a legit shot at the playoffs. If not, I would not like to be Alex Smith's shoulders

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Snyder or Kilgore at RG. No Rachal, please.

Funny, I forget who, but some beat writer mentioned that Rachal was the best at pass protecting on Saturday. Man, it's that bad.

And Hey, who changed my title of MY thread, damn it? I know it was you Kid...I know you're lurking behind the keystrokes, man.

I'm sure everyone knows at this point that I'm not a fan of Rachal at all. Could probably say I borderline can't stand him even being here. That said, I don't know if I'm seeing what these other people are seeing.

I have not witnessed anything from Rachal that leads me to be optimistic about him starting at RG, but if he does, I sure hope he greatly exceeds my expectations, for the sake of the team.

We have seen it about the same in the past on Rachal, however, he played very well against Houston. I was surprised when I went back and looked at the game again. Though he did give up a sack on what was more of a communication issue than anything else, if he played as well all season I would be OK with him starting.

Believe all are over-analyzing the problems. It could be as simple as being slow due to the natural learning curve. The mistakes Iupati is making in recognition is natural when switching to a zone scheme. The question then becomes how many games will it take to master these new techniques? I would guess that they will have difficulty for at least the first four or five games of the season but then begin to develop chemistry together. Just hope Smith is still standing by that time!

Harbaugh said there are six or seven players capable of being NFL linemen. That leaves Wragge out (I had hoped he could compete at C) and it means that the guys they are starting and Snyder are the 6 keys to the season. If Kilgore was ready that would have made eight...assuming Boone is in the top seven. So, perhaps all is not lost and the line will reach their considerable potential.