FCUK Robert Quinn

Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

No what i meant by it was he had the potential to be something special, and while that potential is still there I haven't seen him do it enough consistently to risk such a high pick.

Originally posted by deep2crab:

No what i meant by it was he had the potential to be something special, and while that potential is still there I haven't seen him do it enough consistently to risk such a high pick.

The potential is still there based on his first 2 seasons. It didn't go away. What his suspension did is keep him in place so it casts some doubt. IMO that doubt is the only reason he MAY be there at #7. I'm not even sure if he'll drop to us at this point.

It's not all about stats when figuring out how players will look in the NFL. How many times have we seen guy put up big numbers only to do nothing in the NFL?

Quinn is well rounded and has great physical abilities with coaching and experience someone with a strong work ethic should only get better. He is a natural pass rusher but he has size and speed at his disposal. If anything guys who are one dimensional tend to flake out when they get into the NFL because suddenly they're playing against guys who are the strongest and fastest around.

Things they could get away with in college now aren't as easy.

I can understand why people are concerned about him because of the suspension and issues with the brain tumor in the past but saying he looks like a bust based on his play is just silly.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

So you don't want to compare him to Gholdton, but you want to compare him to Ware though? Why? Cause Ware is way better? He's not DeMarcus and he's not Vernon. Basing him off another players success or failure isn't a good argument. If you look back a couple pages to why the Gholston/Quinn comparision started. Someone asked if anyone thinks Quinn reminds them of Gholston, another poster said not even close, or something to that extent. And I gave my opinion of Goholston when he enter the draft and now that Quinn is, and Gholston outranked him in everything.
Any his "great" Soph. is being overblown. He was considered a Top-10 pick if he followed his good Soph. year with another good Jr. year. Quinn is solely ranked high off potential and to me he doesn't merit being ranked higher then more productive players who's play is visually evident, unlike Quinn's.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

Going from team statistics from the NFL's website, the rankings of the Cowboy's and Niners defense are very similar:

Cowboys had 35 sacks, 9'ers had 36.
Cowboys pass defense ranked 26th and gave up 243.4 yards per game.
9'ers pass defense ranked 24th and gave up 231.1 yards per game.

Doesn't support the notion that a "stud" pass rusher (Ware) made much of a difference as far as statistics go.

I think that a good pass rush and good coverage go hand-in-hand. Just having one or the other, and you will get burned.

Originally posted by socal9er42:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

Going from team statistics from the NFL's website, the rankings of the Cowboy's and Niners defense are very similar:

Cowboys had 35 sacks, 9'ers had 36.
Cowboys pass defense ranked 26th and gave up 243.4 yards per game.
9'ers pass defense ranked 24th and gave up 231.1 yards per game.

Doesn't support the notion that a "stud" pass rusher (Ware) made much of a difference as far as statistics go.

I think that a good pass rush and good coverage go hand-in-hand. Just having one or the other, and you will get burned.

Exactly, and everyone agrees their biggest needs this draft is help in the secondary.

Originally posted by socal9er42:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

Going from team statistics from the NFL's website, the rankings of the Cowboy's and Niners defense are very similar:

Cowboys had 35 sacks, 9'ers had 36.
Cowboys pass defense ranked 26th and gave up 243.4 yards per game.
9'ers pass defense ranked 24th and gave up 231.1 yards per game.

Doesn't support the notion that a "stud" pass rusher (Ware) made much of a difference as far as statistics go.

I think that a good pass rush and good coverage go hand-in-hand. Just having one or the other, and you will get burned.

of course they go hand in hand. But a pass rusher is going to be more valuable, that's just football. The other team would have to adjust their protections schemes, use double teams, and the QB would never be comfortable throwing anywhere on the field. The Odds are stacked against DBs, they can only do so much given the current rules.

Bottom line: Agree or disagree, WE CAN'T GIVE AN OPPOSING QB ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL!! A CB (no matter how good) can only cover for so long before things begin to break down. We haven't had a consistant pass rush in years. Our last player to record double digit sacks was Andre Carter, who had 12.5 sacks in 2002!

Originally posted by PTulini:
Bottom line: Agree or disagree, WE CAN'T GIVE AN OPPOSING QB ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL!! A CB (no matter how good) can only cover for so long before things begin to break down. We haven't had a consistant pass rush in years. Our last player to record double digit sacks was Andre Carter, who had 12.5 sacks in 2002!

Agree. But if you don't have good cover corners, the QB can have the ball out in no time therefore making the good pass-rush ineffective. We can all agree we need both CBs and OLBs. Manny Lawsonwas supposed to become our rush OLB. Saying Quinn will or will not be better then Lawson isn't the question. We won't know til later. I'm saying Quinn hasn't shown me enough to merit everyones claim he's an "elite" pass rusher.

Originally posted by PTulini:
Bottom line: Agree or disagree, WE CAN'T GIVE AN OPPOSING QB ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL!! A CB (no matter how good) can only cover for so long before things begin to break down. We haven't had a consistant pass rush in years. Our last player to record double digit sacks was Andre Carter, who had 12.5 sacks in 2002!

Absolutely.

It's just a wuestion of how to apply that pressure. There is no doubt that a very talented rusher, be he from the defensive line or linebacker corp, makes it exciting and a challenge for the other team to plan for.


but....

A good OC can usually figure out a way to defend, or even exploit the weaknesses of, a good rusher (e.g. run directly at an agressive player).

I believe having 4-5 players who each have 6-10 or so sacks, makes it tougher to plan for.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

So you don't want to compare him to Gholdton, but you want to compare him to Ware though? Why? Cause Ware is way better? He's not DeMarcus and he's not Vernon. Basing him off another players success or failure isn't a good argument. If you look back a couple pages to why the Gholston/Quinn comparision started. Someone asked if anyone thinks Quinn reminds them of Gholston, another poster said not even close, or something to that extent. And I gave my opinion of Goholston when he enter the draft and now that Quinn is, and Gholston outranked him in everything.
Any his "great" Soph. is being overblown. He was considered a Top-10 pick if he followed his good Soph. year with another good Jr. year. Quinn is solely ranked high off potential and to me he doesn't merit being ranked higher then more productive players who's play is visually evident, unlike Quinn's.

Did I compare him with Ware? I pointed out Ware - who is a very good 3-4 OLB didn't put up monster numbers against top competition but it didn't stop him from being a good NFL player. That's not saying Robert Quinn reminds me of Ware.

I already went over the difference between Gholston and Quinn. You don't want to agree that's your opinion just don't try to throw out blanket statements and judging a guy from a season that never was.

And his year isn't being overblown. He had a great year while being double teamed as a young and inexperienced player aka he got by with his physical abilities. Common logic would say with NFL level coaching and playing experience he would get better. That's why he's ranked so high. It's not blind potential just based of his measurables.

Originally posted by socal9er42:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by deep2crab:
Quinn's potential was to be a top 3 pick, IF he had a strong junior year. Well he didn't play his junior year so how can he be thought of in the same light as if he did? The argument that Quinn would have been a top 3 pick if he came out last year is not valid because the top 3 grade was given expecting him to impress in his junior year. He imo has bust written all over him because he simply hasn't produced against strong competition consistently. Not that he wont be good, just not worth the risk. We should target someone like Prince, a solid player who has proven himself against good competition

Let me get this straight...you don't want to give him credit for a season he couldn't play but you want to judge him and knock him down for the same reason?

And he's not being graded on possibly having a big season this past year. He's being graded based on what he's shown so far in his career.

Demarcus Ware didn't put up huge numbers against top teams either playing at Troy. If you can play, you can play. His pass rush abilities are clear as day experience and NFL coaching will only make him better.

Prince won't do much when the other teams QB has all day to throw the ball.

Going from team statistics from the NFL's website, the rankings of the Cowboy's and Niners defense are very similar:

Cowboys had 35 sacks, 9'ers had 36.
Cowboys pass defense ranked 26th and gave up 243.4 yards per game.
9'ers pass defense ranked 24th and gave up 231.1 yards per game.

Doesn't support the notion that a "stud" pass rusher (Ware) made much of a difference as far as statistics go.

I think that a good pass rush and good coverage go hand-in-hand. Just having one or the other, and you will get burned.

Ugh...this again?

Fine,

They also have 2 first round corners.

So what do we do now?

They had Demarcus Ware put up a monster season and still suck. We didn't have anyone and still sucked. Maybe if we had a guy who could actually rush the passer consistently we'd improve in other areas?

I've had this discussion with people way too many times to do it again but you get to the qb and it doesn't matter what the coverage looks like. 1 corner only does so much. 1 pass rusher can kill a whole play no matter how many receivers are open.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by PTulini:
Bottom line: Agree or disagree, WE CAN'T GIVE AN OPPOSING QB ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL!! A CB (no matter how good) can only cover for so long before things begin to break down. We haven't had a consistant pass rush in years. Our last player to record double digit sacks was Andre Carter, who had 12.5 sacks in 2002!

Agree. But if you don't have good cover corners, the QB can have the ball out in no time therefore making the good pass-rush ineffective. We can all agree we need both CBs and OLBs. Manny Lawsonwas supposed to become our rush OLB. Saying Quinn will or will not be better then Lawson isn't the question. We won't know til later. I'm saying Quinn hasn't shown me enough to merit everyones claim he's an "elite" pass rusher.

Shown you enough? Who are you? Did you actually watch the games or you just scout from youtube like most people? Maybe that's why he hasn't shown you enough. Only 2 years worth of highlights.

You make it sound like a qb snaps the ball and it's right into the receivers hands. The qb still has to drop back and receivers still have to run their routes. Hell the pass rusher doesn't even have to actually hit the qb to screw up a play.

As has been pointed out we haven't had a pass rusher in years. We've had good corner play. Obviously something needs to be fixed.

Whether it's Quinn or someone else.

Just curious who in your opinion has proven enough to be a good pass rusher?

Other than Von Miller since that's the easy answer.

Originally posted by Travisty13:

Originally posted by PTulini:
Bottom line: Agree or disagree, WE CAN'T GIVE AN OPPOSING QB ALL DAY TO THROW THE BALL!! A CB (no matter how good) can only cover for so long before things begin to break down. We haven't had a consistant pass rush in years. Our last player to record double digit sacks was Andre Carter, who had 12.5 sacks in 2002!

Agree. But if you don't have good cover corners, the QB can have the ball out in no time therefore making the good pass-rush ineffective. We can all agree we need both CBs and OLBs. Manny Lawsonwas supposed to become our rush OLB. Saying Quinn will or will not be better then Lawson isn't the question. We won't know til later. I'm saying Quinn hasn't shown me enough to merit everyones claim he's an "elite" pass rusher.

What you havent seen the you tubeclips of Austin making it easy for him to get sacks?