Originally posted by strickac:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by strickac:
He's definitely worth a look. His size alone will cause him to drop, but he's a talented guy that makes great decisions in the pocket. I'm just not sure he's a much better option than Tolzein though. He reminds me of Andy Dalton.
Dalton has a MUCH stronger arm.
Meh, neither are overly impressive physically. They're just smart players that don't get rattled easily. They had great composure and just win games.
What are you talking about? Dalton was a pretty good physical prospect. Dalton didn't show a cannon, but in college he proved he could make all the NFL throws, if you watched the guy play he showed plenty of arm strength to gun it to the tough out routes, which is generally the best way to see if a QB has NFL arm strength (on those 10-15 yard outs to the sidelines, how quick they can get the ball there on a quick release).
Heres from a draft website that I think gives a fair assessment of his arm strength:
"Although I wouldn't exactly classify his arm as a cannon, he definitely has the arm strength to make just about every NFL throw. Whether he's throwing short passes or deep routes down the sideline, he typical does a good job of gauging the strength he needs and adjusting according to the route. He possesses the arm strength to dart the ball to the sideline, squeeze it into a tight window, or heave it 40 yards downfield. Much like his accuracy, he has a tendency to misjudge the amount of strength needed behind his throws when the play breaks down or he starts to feel pressure. He will miss crossing routes on occasion, due in large part to unnecessarily trying to bullet the ball into the receiver. He also can miss on deep routes from time to time, not putting enough strength behind the pass and allowing the defender to make a play on the sailing ball."
There was a reason Dalton went at the top of the 2nd, and it wasn't because in college he was a winner or showed he was a smart player who could read defenses. There are plenty of those QBs in college that end up falling in the draft and quickly booted from the league.
I'd be willing to bet that Kellen Moore is not taken at the top of the 2nd. Care to make a wager and back up your comparison?
I don't think Kellen Moore even resembles Dalton in their play style or mechanics. The only similarity is they won games in the mid-majors. Dalton is 30lbs heavier and uses the bullet pass far more, Moore relies on floaters who keeps his balls high and uses play action a lot more. Moore has one of the best touches on his balls on the league, but the problem is in the NFL that can become a weakness because the windows are so much smaller you can't give defenders time to make a play. Dalton played as though he would rather gun the pall in there and miss than make the completion which is actually a positive in the NFL for a QB to prefer to use his strength to make it into the window rather then hope to float a high one against a defender with his back turned. I think Moore has better pocket presence and looks great on the scramble with keeping his eyes down field. But there will be a red flag on his size, he looks only 6 foot and 190 lbs. Before you compare him to Drew Brees for his small size, keep in mind Brees is about 210 lbs and has a much thicker frame.
And look at the trajectory of Brees passes in college:
Look at how low that arc is and he doesn't rely on a high arc to deliver the ball on mid-range routes.
When looking at QBs, you HAVE to look at the arc they rely on to deliver passes. If its too much, its a red flag their arm strength is pretty weak. I see that in Kellen Moore's throws. On Dalton? Nope.
Keep in mind NOT ONE QB in the NFL is under 200 lbs. The closes QB to 200 lbs is Moore at Miami. Doug Flutie is really the only QB that jumps into mind that could play with such a small frame. Garcia was pretty small as well, but remember it took him YEARS to get his start in the NFL (4 or 5?) and he really worked over that time to develop his technique of bulleting the ball into windows on the mid range routes.
[ Edited by SunDevilNiner79 on Dec 29, 2011 at 21:04:59 ]