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Kiper's grades are in

  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I have no problem with Kiper's grade. This is what I posted last night a few hours after the draft:

Davis- "A-" grade. Best available OT in the draft when the team was on the board. Has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. I think he's a huge upgrade, and will easily start from Day One. Completely engulfs rushers, and looks smooth in the process. The only downgrade for me was losing the 4th rounder in the trade up, but I can understand the paranoia the team had about being leapfrogged.

Iupati- "A" grade. One of the best OG prospects in the last decade. He should easily bench Baas at LG. Just like Davis, completely engulfs defenders. Still learning the game, and will only get a ton better. Think about how good he is already, with Idaho coaching, weight room facilities, strength coaches, etc.

Mays- "D" grade. Good value spot for a team looking for a safety who is not going to cover anyone. That is not us.

Think about his athleticism, speed, jumping ability. Off the charts. Why was he bypassed by all of these teams in the first round, and more than half of the second round? And, nobody lower than 49 wanted to move up to secure his services. He is simply not a coverage safety. Mays was exposed badly in Senior Bowl practices as someone who is incredibly stiff and cannot change directions. Many scouts believed, and stated, that he will need to transition to OLB in the NFL. The team needed a centerfielder who can cover a lot of ground, and put Goldson into the SS role. Now, we have two guys with coverage limitations. Not a smart move. Many other better coverage safeties on the board at the time. I could not have blamed the team if they sacrificed both the second and third rounder to jump up and grab Nate Allen, some who clearly has the ability to patrol the back end of the secondary, cover speedy receivers in a big play league, and make plays.

Bowman- "D-" grade- I have no idea what the Niners are thinking here. I'm not sure they do as well. Bowman is strictly a 4-3 defender in the NFL. He cannot rush the passer effectively, and is not the best at taking on blockers. To blow a third rounder (which is a common issue with the team the past few years) on a backup to Willis is not a good investment. In the first presser, Singletary did not seem to know where they would play him as well. Welcome to the "We Don't Know where they are going to Play" club of Balmer, R. Smith, and others.

Ginn- "A" grade in trade. Ginn has to be included in the draft, since this is the value we receive for our fifth rounder. Ginn's best football is in front of him. He instantly eliminates our second most glaring need this offseason, and becomes our first deep threat at WR in a LONG time. I believe he assumes the number three WR role, and could even push Morgan (depending on Morgan's development).

Dixon- "A-" grade- The Niners did not appear to have any confidence in Coffee last year, so they better pick up someone they can hand the rock to when Gore is on the bench, or injured. Dixon was second in the SEC in rushing (behind Ingram), with a brutal OL in front of him. Wes Bunting said this about Dixon, "Becomes a starter in his rookie season...Becomes a solid NFL player with no real weakness". Now, I'm not going to go as far as Bunting, but this is a guy really liked in NFL scouting circles.

Byham- "B-" grade- I know this is a head scratcher for many fans, but this team did not execute well on third and short last year. Byham is a stud blocker, better than Bajema and better than Bear. So, while he is not going to catch more than 5 balls this season, he will probably make this team with ease, and have a chance to play on Sunday in situational roles.

Kyle Williams- "A-" grade- The team needs an insurance policy for Ginn, who has had some health problems in the past. So, why not select another lightning rod who can run like the wind. Williams has a terrific shot at making the team as the team's fifth receiver, and a guy who can play in the slot in 4 WR sets. He needs to work on route running (few rookies don't have issues). A guy to stretch the field.

Philip Adams- "D" grade- Better CB's were on the board, including McClain (the Niners plucked Patrick Stoudamire off the priority free agent market), but the team could use a developmental CB on the practice squad, so I understand the positional selection. Might have to move Adams to FS down the road, but I honestly don't give the kid much of a chance to make the team.

A more interesting option would have been to select one of the small school 3-4 DE's on the board (Lissemore or Howard), a big school 3-4 DE who I think is going to make an NFL roster in Doug Worthington, or go complete off the chart and select Jameson Konz, a freak athlete the Seahawks selected later, who might be able to play at numerous positions on the field.

That is the short answer to the best and worst picks. I give the Niners a final grade of 82.5% in the B/B- range.


Cheers.

P.S. With the solid FA pickups, I'd move the grade to 84%. One more note of correction for MM and MB: Both have reported that Dixon led the SEC in rushing. I think both probably received an inaccurate wire statement. The leading rusher in the SEC last year was Mark Ingram.
I'll combine two responses in one post.

It is entirely appropriate that NFL pundits post their overall assessments of the draft AT THIS POINT. Some will disagree with them, others agree but that is what they do to attract viewers. Yes, all the media has an East Coast bias right now, but they didn't in the '80s & '90s when the franchise was winning and well run/coached. Therefore, it is appropriate that they not show a lot of love right now. Afterall, how often does a quality organization shed their GM three weeks before the draft?

MD, I agree with your overall grade of B though I get at it a bit different. I am not as down on the Mays pick as you. Here's why: Goldson is too small to absorb 16 games of pounding as SS. Though he made too many mistakes last year in coverage and angles, he did show ability to ballhawk and cover. His mistakes were more mistakes of overaggressiveness and inexperience. With Mays coming on to play SS, Goldson will be able to concentrate on coverage and play calling. If my assessment is correct, the 49ers get their FS by drafting a solid SS that allows Goldson to be the guy they would otherwise have drafted. So, though it would have been nice to have Nate Allen, I don't see Goldson as the long-term answer at SS. I just can't see him staying healthy under that load. You?

I too question the Bowman pick. All I can say is that Singletary knows more than I but I thought there were other guys that would have been more help.

I love the Byham pick. His blocking ability will free VD to spend more time in pass patterns. Also, he will be a big help in the areas you note. In the end, he may be the third most valuable pick in the draft in terms of what he allows the TEAM to do. IOW, his contribution will be overlooked by many but critical nonetheless.

I love the combo of Ginn and Williams. Those two guys should have a huge impact on field position. Both of these guys are A picks.

You have summed up my feelings on the rest of them pretty well although I don't know anything about Adams.

So, yes, a B grade OVERALL is where I see it. If the combo of Mays & Goldson work out, it could be an A.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I have no problem with Kiper's grade. This is what I posted last night a few hours after the draft:

Davis- "A-" grade. Best available OT in the draft when the team was on the board. Has the highest upside of any OT in the draft. I think he's a huge upgrade, and will easily start from Day One. Completely engulfs rushers, and looks smooth in the process. The only downgrade for me was losing the 4th rounder in the trade up, but I can understand the paranoia the team had about being leapfrogged.

Iupati- "A" grade. One of the best OG prospects in the last decade. He should easily bench Baas at LG. Just like Davis, completely engulfs defenders. Still learning the game, and will only get a ton better. Think about how good he is already, with Idaho coaching, weight room facilities, strength coaches, etc.

Mays- "D" grade. Good value spot for a team looking for a safety who is not going to cover anyone. That is not us.

Think about his athleticism, speed, jumping ability. Off the charts. Why was he bypassed by all of these teams in the first round, and more than half of the second round? And, nobody lower than 49 wanted to move up to secure his services. He is simply not a coverage safety. Mays was exposed badly in Senior Bowl practices as someone who is incredibly stiff and cannot change directions. Many scouts believed, and stated, that he will need to transition to OLB in the NFL. The team needed a centerfielder who can cover a lot of ground, and put Goldson into the SS role. Now, we have two guys with coverage limitations. Not a smart move. Many other better coverage safeties on the board at the time. I could not have blamed the team if they sacrificed both the second and third rounder to jump up and grab Nate Allen, some who clearly has the ability to patrol the back end of the secondary, cover speedy receivers in a big play league, and make plays.

Bowman- "D-" grade- I have no idea what the Niners are thinking here. I'm not sure they do as well. Bowman is strictly a 4-3 defender in the NFL. He cannot rush the passer effectively, and is not the best at taking on blockers. To blow a third rounder (which is a common issue with the team the past few years) on a backup to Willis is not a good investment. In the first presser, Singletary did not seem to know where they would play him as well. Welcome to the "We Don't Know where they are going to Play" club of Balmer, R. Smith, and others.

Ginn- "A" grade in trade. Ginn has to be included in the draft, since this is the value we receive for our fifth rounder. Ginn's best football is in front of him. He instantly eliminates our second most glaring need this offseason, and becomes our first deep threat at WR in a LONG time. I believe he assumes the number three WR role, and could even push Morgan (depending on Morgan's development).

Dixon- "A-" grade- The Niners did not appear to have any confidence in Coffee last year, so they better pick up someone they can hand the rock to when Gore is on the bench, or injured. Dixon was second in the SEC in rushing (behind Ingram), with a brutal OL in front of him. Wes Bunting said this about Dixon, "Becomes a starter in his rookie season...Becomes a solid NFL player with no real weakness". Now, I'm not going to go as far as Bunting, but this is a guy really liked in NFL scouting circles.

Byham- "B-" grade- I know this is a head scratcher for many fans, but this team did not execute well on third and short last year. Byham is a stud blocker, better than Bajema and better than Bear. So, while he is not going to catch more than 5 balls this season, he will probably make this team with ease, and have a chance to play on Sunday in situational roles.

Kyle Williams- "A-" grade- The team needs an insurance policy for Ginn, who has had some health problems in the past. So, why not select another lightning rod who can run like the wind. Williams has a terrific shot at making the team as the team's fifth receiver, and a guy who can play in the slot in 4 WR sets. He needs to work on route running (few rookies don't have issues). A guy to stretch the field.

Philip Adams- "D" grade- Better CB's were on the board, including McClain (the Niners plucked Patrick Stoudamire off the priority free agent market), but the team could use a developmental CB on the practice squad, so I understand the positional selection. Might have to move Adams to FS down the road, but I honestly don't give the kid much of a chance to make the team.

A more interesting option would have been to select one of the small school 3-4 DE's on the board (Lissemore or Howard), a big school 3-4 DE who I think is going to make an NFL roster in Doug Worthington, or go complete off the chart and select Jameson Konz, a freak athlete the Seahawks selected later, who might be able to play at numerous positions on the field.

That is the short answer to the best and worst picks. I give the Niners a final grade of 82.5% in the B/B- range.


Cheers.

P.S. With the solid FA pickups, I'd move the grade to 84%. One more note of correction for MM and MB: Both have reported that Dixon led the SEC in rushing. I think both probably received an inaccurate wire statement. The leading rusher in the SEC last year was Mark Ingram.
I'll combine two responses in one post.

It is entirely appropriate that NFL pundits post their overall assessments of the draft AT THIS POINT. Some will disagree with them, others agree but that is what they do to attract viewers. Yes, all the media has an East Coast bias right now, but they didn't in the '80s & '90s when the franchise was winning and well run/coached. Therefore, it is appropriate that they not show a lot of love right now. Afterall, how often does a quality organization shed their GM three weeks before the draft?

MD, I agree with your overall grade of B though I get at it a bit different. I am not as down on the Mays pick as you. Here's why: Goldson is too small to absorb 16 games of pounding as SS. Though he made too many mistakes last year in coverage and angles, he did show ability to ballhawk and cover. His mistakes were more mistakes of overaggressiveness and inexperience. With Mays coming on to play SS, Goldson will be able to concentrate on coverage and play calling. If my assessment is correct, the 49ers get their FS by drafting a solid SS that allows Goldson to be the guy they would otherwise have drafted. So, though it would have been nice to have Nate Allen, I don't see Goldson as the long-term answer at SS. I just can't see him staying healthy under that load. You?

I too question the Bowman pick. All I can say is that Singletary knows more than I but I thought there were other guys that would have been more help.

I love the Byham pick. His blocking ability will free VD to spend more time in pass patterns. Also, he will be a big help in the areas you note. In the end, he may be the third most valuable pick in the draft in terms of what he allows the TEAM to do. IOW, his contribution will be overlooked by many but critical nonetheless.

I love the combo of Ginn and Williams. Those two guys should have a huge impact on field position. Both of these guys are A picks.

You have summed up my feelings on the rest of them pretty well although I don't know anything about Adams.

So, yes, a B grade OVERALL is where I see it. If the combo of Mays & Goldson work out, it could be an A.

Thats what I have been saying about Goldson, WE LEAVE HIM THERE!!!!!!!!!! Thank You!!!!!!!!!! Makes the Mays pick that more smarter!!!!!!!
Originally posted by HessianDud:
what an asshat

Is that why his hair is like that? lol
Originally posted by AC49er:
I dont care what all these "experts" say cant truly evaluate a draft class at least for 3 years

or in the case of vd alex and manny 4-5 years it what it takes.
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by FnkyPhantom:
If Kiper (and others) have the right to "rate/grade" a teams draft picks, don't we as fans have the right to grade their performances during the draft?

Kiper: Whiney when his boyfriend Clausen didn't get drafted until late. Arrogant and Ignorant.......F

McShay: Probably will get better after he reaches puberty.....C-

Steve Young: Didn't do his homework and it showed. Love the guy, but was out of his element.......D

Boomer: Always good for a laugh.......B+

Deion: Deadbeat loser who jeopardizes NFL prospects......Fail Minus

Mayock: No voice come Saturday, but I think he's a good prognosticator.....B

(feel free to add on to other draft experts that covered the event for ESPN or NFL Network).

Rich Eisen: Funny as usual and did will moderating for 3 days.... A-

Corey Chavous: Still getting used to him as analyst, but he did a good job for a 1st draft and shows strong upside. However, he did say that the guy that Blount punched deserved it, so he gets a lower grade... B-

Michael Irvin: Just can't take the guy seriously... he was almost as bad as Steve Young on ESPN.... D

Mack Brown: It did a decent job on day 3 evaluating some of the more obscure picks.... C

Marshall Faulk: I enjoyed his commentary while he was actually there... B

Jamie Dukes: Always opinionated... however sometimes his opinions aren't that great... C+

Jim Mora Jr.: Came off as a bitter ex-coach the whole time... D-

Charlie Casserly: Always fun to watch him talk.. He had a lot of good things to say... A-

Really? I didn't get that from him. I thought he was solid, plus he gave the niners some love.
  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 26,943
Originally posted by Kalen49ers:
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Quote:
San Francisco 49ers
Summary: Give San Francisco credit. Early on in the draft it had a chance to get better in a couple of places and decided to get a lot better in one. But consider the trickle-down effect: By taking Anthony Davis, the left tackle with the highest upside in the draft -- emphasis on "upside" -- and then a lock to be a good NFL guard in Mike Iupati, the Niners are a better running team right now. The passing game suddenly seems better as well. Taylor Mays at No. 49 is a good value selection, and the kid will be motivated, but I think we're past pretending he was a steal because of his size-speed combination. His tape fell really flat. Navorro Bowman has size questions, but he's better than No. 91 overall.
Draft grade: B

Seattle got an A by the way, Arizona B+ and STL C+


I understand the Seattle lovefest, but how does Arizona get rated higher than us?


Must've been the Day 3 picks since we didn't have that many

How doesn't AZ get a B+ ? Best NT prospect in this class, a great ILB prospect to develop as Dansby's replacement, a good WR prospect to battle for the 3rd/4th spot, a good DE/OLB prospect, and a great QB prospect to develop over the next couple years.

Here's my counter: Great OT prospect, best OG prospect, Great Safety prospect, Great ILB prospect, trade for a good return man in Ted Ginn, great value RB prospects, best NCAA returner.



We weren't talking about the 9ers ?
  • SoCold
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 48,684
I happened to turn on espn yesterday afternoon and they had Kiper and some other dude breaking down the NFL West draft.

Kiper had a different tone to his breakdown saying eh Mays was ok where they got him but there’s a huge question if he can make plays at the next level.

The other dude was saying how the 9ers reached to go up and get Davis and he didn’t like the pick but doesn’t explain why. Where they get these random dudes to talk crap is beyond me.
  • KRS-1
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 26,943
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by FnkyPhantom:
If Kiper (and others) have the right to "rate/grade" a teams draft picks, don't we as fans have the right to grade their performances during the draft?

Kiper: Whiney when his boyfriend Clausen didn't get drafted until late. Arrogant and Ignorant.......F

McShay: Probably will get better after he reaches puberty.....C-

Steve Young: Didn't do his homework and it showed. Love the guy, but was out of his element.......D

Boomer: Always good for a laugh.......B+

Deion: Deadbeat loser who jeopardizes NFL prospects......Fail Minus

Mayock: No voice come Saturday, but I think he's a good prognosticator.....B

(feel free to add on to other draft experts that covered the event for ESPN or NFL Network).

Rich Eisen: Funny as usual and did will moderating for 3 days.... A-

Corey Chavous: Still getting used to him as analyst, but he did a good job for a 1st draft and shows strong upside. However, he did say that the guy that Blount punched deserved it, so he gets a lower grade... B-

Michael Irvin: Just can't take the guy seriously... he was almost as bad as Steve Young on ESPN.... D

Mack Brown: It did a decent job on day 3 evaluating some of the more obscure picks.... C

Marshall Faulk: I enjoyed his commentary while he was actually there... B

Jamie Dukes: Always opinionated... however sometimes his opinions aren't that great... C+

Jim Mora Jr.: Came off as a bitter ex-coach the whole time... D-

Charlie Casserly: Always fun to watch him talk.. He had a lot of good things to say... A-

Really? I didn't get that from him. I thought he was solid, plus he gave the niners some love.

No love for Chucky ?
What I don't get is that prior to the draft Kiper and many other draft pundits had Mays going in the later part of the 1st round in their mock drafts, and none of them said he shouldn't go there. Then, when the Niners get him in the middle of the 2nd, all of a sudden it is a "reach." Give me a break.
Originally posted by KRS-1:
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by FnkyPhantom:
If Kiper (and others) have the right to "rate/grade" a teams draft picks, don't we as fans have the right to grade their performances during the draft?

Kiper: Whiney when his boyfriend Clausen didn't get drafted until late. Arrogant and Ignorant.......F

McShay: Probably will get better after he reaches puberty.....C-

Steve Young: Didn't do his homework and it showed. Love the guy, but was out of his element.......D

Boomer: Always good for a laugh.......B+

Deion: Deadbeat loser who jeopardizes NFL prospects......Fail Minus

Mayock: No voice come Saturday, but I think he's a good prognosticator.....B

(feel free to add on to other draft experts that covered the event for ESPN or NFL Network).

Rich Eisen: Funny as usual and did will moderating for 3 days.... A-

Corey Chavous: Still getting used to him as analyst, but he did a good job for a 1st draft and shows strong upside. However, he did say that the guy that Blount punched deserved it, so he gets a lower grade... B-

Michael Irvin: Just can't take the guy seriously... he was almost as bad as Steve Young on ESPN.... D

Mack Brown: It did a decent job on day 3 evaluating some of the more obscure picks.... C

Marshall Faulk: I enjoyed his commentary while he was actually there... B

Jamie Dukes: Always opinionated... however sometimes his opinions aren't that great... C+

Jim Mora Jr.: Came off as a bitter ex-coach the whole time... D-

Charlie Casserly: Always fun to watch him talk.. He had a lot of good things to say... A-

Really? I didn't get that from him. I thought he was solid, plus he gave the niners some love.

No love for Chucky ?

I didn't watch ESPN's coverage, so I can't comment on him. However, I found it disappointing he dropped out of the day 3 coverage after last year on the NFLN, where he kept going on and on about how much he loved the draft, especially the later parts.
  • SoCold
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 48,684
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
What I don't get is that prior to the draft Kiper and many other draft pundits had Mays going in the later part of the 1st round in their mock drafts, and none of them said he shouldn't go there. Then, when the Niners get him in the middle of the 2nd, all of a sudden it is a "reach." Give me a break.

all of them are just talking out of their asses to fill air time and probably don't remember half of what they spew

kiper knows game tape he can name all the players and say what he saw on tape but he has no clue about judging talent and how a player will transition into the nfl game

and you can't tell me that jimmy clausens agent being one of his butt buddies didn't have anything to do will all his jimmy boy love
I think it's a pretty fair grade, although I'd say it could be argued we did as well as Arizona get Williams that late in the 1st was robbery.
Grades seem about right to me. both channels really sucked balls this year with there coverage NFLN was always on commercial break with the early niner picks. I like Chavous on NFLN the rest of them were worthless once Mayock lost his voice. ESPN problem was besides Kiper nobody else seemed to informed about the players. The funniest part was watching how upset Steve young and TJ were over the Broncos taking Tebow that was classic. And please get rid of Jim Mora Jr he was horrible. Both channels could do a lot better
Kiper wasn't too high on Iupati or Taylor Mays going into the draft.
  • cgida
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 295
When he can figure out a better look for his hair he can give his opinion on our outstanding draft!!!