Defensive Line Thread

Originally posted by Heroism:

It only takes a few minutes of the video above to see that majority of AA's production wasn't vs double teams.

So what you really saying is DJJ about to get 10 sacks this year

Originally posted by evil:
So what you really saying is DJJ about to get 10 sacks this year

I think he will have the opportunity to do so with AA getting most of the attention inside.

Will he put up 10 sacks? Nope. But I think he can surprise people.

Originally posted by Heroism:
PFF also hires people who have absolutely no clue what they're seeing.

It only takes a few minutes of the video above to see that majority of AA's production wasn't vs double teams.

hey that's all fair I'm just telling ya where the numbers came from

I'm pissed the moved Buck just as well...they spent over a yr trying to get a deal done and Buck wasn't gonna help the team out in any way (which is totally fine). s**tty but at least they were able to get some great value in return vs letting him walk in a yr.

Here's to hoping DJ can stay healthy.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Say what you want about this clown, but he's 100% accurate in this situation. Buckner almost always got the center sliding in his direction. Next year that will be AA, which means his production will likely drop. Someone will need to step up.

Just shows what a lot of people have been saying. The double teams he commanded helped free up others. I just hope Lynch knows what he's doing here because this could easily backfire on us.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by evil:

So what you really saying is DJJ about to get 10 sacks this year

I think he will have the opportunity to do so with AA getting most of the attention inside.

Will he put up 10 sacks? Nope. But I think he can surprise people.

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Say what you want about this clown, but he's 100% accurate in this situation. Buckner almost always got the center sliding in his direction. Next year that will be AA, which means his production will likely drop. Someone will need to step up.

Just shows what a lot of people have been saying. The double teams he commanded helped free up others. I just hope Lynch knows what he's doing here because this could easily backfire on us.

This is going to suck.

Bosa, Armstead, Jones, Ford

Backup DE is Blair and ?

Backup DT are Thomas, Street, Taylor?

I think we are more liable to draft Edge than DT the more i think about it (especially with Fords glass knee).

We will feel Bucks loss, but it seems paying him what we wanted would have really hurt our ability to build around him and keep other guys a few years from now.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

I think we are more liable to draft Edge than DT the more i think about it (especially with Fords glass knee).

Agreed.

I think that would be a better choice than a DT.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Say what you want about this clown, but he's 100% accurate in this situation. Buckner almost always got the center sliding in his direction. Next year that will be AA, which means his production will likely drop. Someone will need to step up.

Just shows what a lot of people have been saying. The double teams he commanded helped free up others. I just hope Lynch knows what he's doing here because this could easily backfire on us.

This is going to suck.

I hate that I agree with Grant Cohn.

The year we were historically bad in run defense:

2,654 yards allowed and 4.8 yards per carry

The last two years with Buckner:

1,800 yards allowed and 4.5 yards per carry

Where do you think we end up this year without Buckner?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Say what you want about this clown, but he's 100% accurate in this situation. Buckner almost always got the center sliding in his direction. Next year that will be AA, which means his production will likely drop. Someone will need to step up.

With Bosa and AA most likely commanding extra attention, could be a big year inside for Jones and...wait for it...Solomon Thomas.

Losing Buck hurts, but some fans are acting like it's the end of the world. The 49ers are still blessed with a defensive line that is very talented. Even without Buckner, I still think our defensive line is top 5 in the league.

Can anyone name 5 better defensive lines?

Bears?
Chiefs?
Rams?
Steelers?
Vikings?

On paper we are as good, if not better than these teams up front.

I think everyone got really comfortable having 4 amazing starters last year. Having 3 on our line this year is still better than 90-95% of the league.

I consider us extremely lucky even without Buckner!

Originally posted by Heroism:
Say what you want about this clown, but he's 100% accurate in this situation. Buckner almost always got the center sliding in his direction. Next year that will be AA, which means his production will likely drop. Someone will need to step up.

It has been years since I last posted but I'm calling you out Hero for tricking me into watching a Cohn video! I feel so dirty!

Anyway, my comment is that we can all sleep well tonight knowing that Grant is still an idiot.

He isn't necessarily wrong that losing Buckner will be a potential problem, but he is mostly wrong about what his five clips are showing.

To me, the clips seem to show that offensive lines were primarily concerned with their left side (Bosa anyone?), and the offensive line doubled whichever inside defender was on that side.

In the first clip, Sheldon Day gets doubled initially instead of Buckner because he is on Bosa's side. The center was looking over to Buckner the whole time, but if someone a bit better than Day was in there, the center wouldn't have been able to disengage and try to help out with Buckner. The guard focuses entirely on Day because the the tight end is crossing the formation to chip Bosa.

In the second clip, the focus is again more on Bosa IMO. The center takes on Buckner and stays with him. The guard aggressively chips Buckner, but when Buckner turns back inside, the guard turns to find Bosa, and the tight end helps seal the tackle's other side.

In the third clip, the center again takes on Buckner and stays with him. The guard stays in front of Buckner at first, but is looking at Bosa the whole time, and doesn't fully engage because he is focused on helping with Bosa.

Clip 4 is just silly analysis. The center had to take whoever was in Buckner's position because the linebacker was up on the line and with the tackle having to take Bosa, the guard had to take the linebacker, leaving the center to take Buckner. The linebacker backed out after the ball was snapped, so the center didn't have time to change his block, and still had to be wary of a stunt. It was the product of the scheme and the linebacker hanging at the line until the last second. The idea that the center might have blocked the defender to his right if Buckner hadn't been in is just silly. I'm betting the center would have taken Buckner (or whoever was there) even if the linebacker hadn't been up there. It would have looked a lot like clip #2 and Clip #3.

Clip 5 is just as silly. Again you have the linebacker up on the line on Buckner's side. The tackle has Blair? on the end, which means the guard has to watch for the linebacker and the center takes Buckner. Again, does Cohn think the center would move to his right if someone other than Buckner was lined up?

So rest easy, and please don't link to any Cohn nonsense. He still doesn't know anything.

Been trying to think this out so I'll just put it here--And I always forget if the NT is next to the LEO -- I think that's what it is.

So Base might be
Armstead(5t/BE) -- Thomas(3t) -- Jones(NT) -- Bosa(LEO/W9)
(Armstead would probably be better than Thomas at 3T but it's also probably Thomas' best shot at being useful)

Nickel:
Ford -- Thomas (or Jones?) -- Armstead -- Bosa

Who can play where: (there's probably a better way of listing this)
5T (run stopping DE)
Armstead
Thomas
Blair(?)
Street(?)

3T (penetrating DT)
Armstead
Thomas
Jones
Taylor
Street

NT (two gap space eater)
Jones
(who's his primary backup? Day was OK but I'd look to improve or go younger here)
Armstead
Taylor

LEO (rush end)
Bosa
Ford
Blair
D Moore (hoping we resign him at least for camp)
need a player here

IDK, just how it roughly looks in my head right now. Basically, our our depth is good, but not great--we could definitely use another LEO as Ford insurance/possible future replacement (and to give Bosa some snaps off here and there), and a DT, either one who can play 5T/Big End and 3T like Armstead, or a pure DT who can play 3t and NT. I'd imagine the FO has these needs pretty high up based on what they've said about prioritizing D-Line (and the fact that our DL was a major reason we were so good last year).

The 49ers don't use a 5T anymore and do zero two-gapping.

9t--3t--2it--9t