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2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kujon11:
one thing that we didn't expect was the regression from adrian colbert and akhello witherspoon. colbert I kind of saw but akhello was unepxected on my part.

Just those two?

on the defensive side, those are the ones that stand out the most.
Originally posted by Ensatsu:
The onus is on John Lynch for letting go of Dumervil and not drafting or acquiring a pass rusher to replace him. This front office put this guy in a horrible position.

And I don't care how much Saleh loves his big ends. If Lynch is listening to him like a robot and acquiescing him on his demands without thinking about it, then he should take ownership and solve the problems himself.

Now it is too late. We will be the top 5 worst defense in the league this year because of foolishness. I'm not deflecting 100% of the criticism away from Saleh, but fans need stop giving him 100% of the blame. The talent level on this team should stop being overrated. It's terrible in many areas.

Agreed. 100%

Colbert, Ward, Witherspoon and Maybin have no buisness starting at DB

Nzeocha and Smith have no buisness starting at LB

Mitchell and Thomas have no buisness starting on the DL.

2019 D

5T- ?
NT- ?
3T- Buckner / Day
LEO- ?

WILL- Foster
MIKE- Warner
SAM- ?

CB1- Sherman
CB2- ?
Nickle- Williams
CB4- ?
FS- ?
SS- Tartt

This D has so many holes and very little depth
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
EXCELLLNT post!

By far & away the fairest yet.

Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words. This post is not meant in the least to invalidate the complaints of fans right now. There are plenty of legitimate concerns and Saleh should be held accountable just as anyone else, but it's important to consider all possibilities as to why something is happening and not be too quick to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

There's a lot of season left to be played and like it or not, I sincerely doubt Saleh goes anywhere after this year. For now, I'm staying hopeful we can address the assignment issue like we addressed the tackling, penalties, and third down issues so far this year.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 17, 2018 at 11:01 AM ]
Originally posted by kujon11:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kujon11:
one thing that we didn't expect was the regression from adrian colbert and akhello witherspoon. colbert I kind of saw but akhello was unepxected on my part.

Just those two?

on the defensive side, those are the ones that stand out the most.

Gotcha. Understood. It seems like a total team regression to me so was just asking.

It doesn't mean it can't turn around. It's just highly unlikely.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 53,770
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

as i have said,. we must have terrible position coaches. its their job to teach oh never mind
  • jcs
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 29,830
Diamond Formation....
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Agreed. 100%

Colbert, Ward, Witherspoon and Maybin have no buisness starting at DB

Nzeocha and Smith have no buisness starting at LB

Mitchell and Thomas have no buisness starting on the DL.

2019 D

5T- ?
NT- ?
3T- Buckner / Day
LEO- ?

WILL- Foster
MIKE- Warner
SAM- ?

CB1- Sherman
CB2- ?
Nickle- Williams
CB4- ?
FS- ?
SS- Tartt

This D has so many holes and very little depth

LOL...while talent is certainly an issue (for 32 teams), I highly doubt Saleh was just hiding off in a corner somewhere, returns from the dark and says, "This is what you've given me? Expect us to give up 30 PPG then."

The more we learn from Saleh in his pressers the more you get the feel these are his guys. His personnel choices back that up.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't want a Khalil Mack though but come on...
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 17, 2018 at 11:08 AM ]
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by cciowa:
did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

Then I ask why is Greg out there? If Jimmy Ward is your starter and has a injury history longer than the closing docs on a property sale, then you should spend more time preparing Greg what to do if Jimmy should come out of a game. If he's not able to function at a basic level, it's the coach's job to talk to the HC and say, "hey we need to bring in some guys because Maybin can't function at all." Reminder - we did this last year.

Buuuuut that didn't happen. What happened was we stuck with Maybin and Saleh (again) just watched him fail.

If Saleh had to tell Shanahan the talent in the secondary sucks then Shanahan should be fired.

Actually in real footall world, position coaches evaluate their players all the time and pass that along to the personnel staff.
Originally posted by jcs:
Diamond Formation....

Sherman said the other DBs are not playing their assignments how they should be. So I think you have to put some of that on Jeff Hafley the DB coach. The players also should take responsibility of course.So why are they confused about their assignments?Most of the DBs were here last year and there wasn't breakdowns like this in the secondary.

Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

as i have said,. we must have terrible position coaches. its their job to teach oh never mind

A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.
Originally posted by E-49er:
Sherman said the other DBs are not playing their assignments how they should be. So I think you have to put some of that on Jeff Hafley the DB coach. The players also should take responsibility of course.So why are they confused about their assignments? ALL of the DBs were here last year and there wasn't breakdowns like this in the secondary.

FTFY

Legit point...
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.

This is an extremely reasonable assessment.

At a micro level, yes there are a few players that consistently blow it.

At a macro level, the buck still stops with the DC because he owns the defense and if guys aren't repeatedly performing at a fundamental level, you have to really consider sending a message (like they did last year). Whether it's benching players or finding a street FA who can simply be in the right spot.

I can deal with a discrepancy in talent and accept that a reason why a defense can't complete, but that has to be IMHO evaluated when said player(s) are doing the fundamentals first.

Thoughts?
why do we need 3 saleh threads ?
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.

This is an extremely reasonable assessment.

At a micro level, yes there are a few players that consistently blow it.

At a macro level, the buck still stops with the DC because he owns the defense and if guys aren't repeatedly performing at a fundamental level, you have to really consider sending a message (like they did last year). Whether it's benching players or finding a street FA who can simply be in the right spot.

I can deal with a discrepancy in talent and accept that a reason why a defense can't complete, but that has to be IMHO evaluated when said player(s) are doing the fundamentals first.

Thoughts?

This is why I won't be shocked if the team ships off Witherspoon even though it's only his second year.

Also, let's look at the fact that it's specifically those players in the secondary, so maybe more people should be giving more flack to that position coach than Saleh himself. I have to believe Saleh has emphasized that Haftley has to figure out a way to get things through these boneheads' minds so they stop busting assignments.

They've tried shuffling players already, the next step is to send those guys packing.
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