2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

as i have said,. we must have terrible position coaches. its their job to teach oh never mind

Diamond Formation....

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Agreed. 100%

Colbert, Ward, Witherspoon and Maybin have no buisness starting at DB

Nzeocha and Smith have no buisness starting at LB

Mitchell and Thomas have no buisness starting on the DL.

2019 D

5T- ?
NT- ?
3T- Buckner / Day
LEO- ?

WILL- Foster
MIKE- Warner
SAM- ?

CB1- Sherman
CB2- ?
Nickle- Williams
CB4- ?
FS- ?
SS- Tartt

This D has so many holes and very little depth

LOL...while talent is certainly an issue (for 32 teams), I highly doubt Saleh was just hiding off in a corner somewhere, returns from the dark and says, "This is what you've given me? Expect us to give up 30 PPG then."

The more we learn from Saleh in his pressers the more you get the feel these are his guys. His personnel choices back that up.

That doesn't mean he wouldn't want a Khalil Mack though but come on...

Originally posted by jcs:

Diamond Formation....

Sherman said the other DBs are not playing their assignments how they should be. So I think you have to put some of that on Jeff Hafley the DB coach. The players also should take responsibility of course.So why are they confused about their assignments?Most of the DBs were here last year and there wasn't breakdowns like this in the secondary.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

as i have said,. we must have terrible position coaches. its their job to teach oh never mind

A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.

Originally posted by E-49er:

Sherman said the other DBs are not playing their assignments how they should be. So I think you have to put some of that on Jeff Hafley the DB coach. The players also should take responsibility of course.So why are they confused about their assignments? ALL of the DBs were here last year and there wasn't breakdowns like this in the secondary.

FTFY

Legit point...

why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

A lot of fans pretend to hold players accountable while simultaneously calling for Saleh to be fired. Let's be honest and clear who we really believe is mostly at fault.

My opinion right now is it seems to be isolated to individual players the most so that's why I'm backing off Saleh recently. While the group has improved at tackling and avoiding penalties, there are a few guys who we see blow it weekly.

Other players on the team seem to know how to do their job, but it's the same individual players screwing up their assignments every week: Colbert and the collection of bums at LCB.. Ward, Witherspoon, and Mabin.

Witherspoon: burnt toast and penalty machine
Ward: injury prone, mistake prone
Mabin: Just plain sucks at coverage.

At this point they might as well try Reed or Moore and see if they have any better luck but as raw as they are it would likely be just another series of growing pains. So I look at that and see that it has to feel like an impossible situation for the coaches on defense having to choose between the dumb, the penalty machine, or the least talented.

This is an extremely reasonable assessment.

At a micro level, yes there are a few players that consistently blow it.

At a macro level, the buck still stops with the DC because he owns the defense and if guys aren't repeatedly performing at a fundamental level, you have to really consider sending a message (like they did last year). Whether it's benching players or finding a street FA who can simply be in the right spot.

I can deal with a discrepancy in talent and accept that a reason why a defense can't complete, but that has to be IMHO evaluated when said player(s) are doing the fundamentals first.

Thoughts?

This is why I won't be shocked if the team ships off Witherspoon even though it's only his second year.

Also, let's look at the fact that it's specifically those players in the secondary, so maybe more people should be giving more flack to that position coach than Saleh himself. I have to believe Saleh has emphasized that Haftley has to figure out a way to get things through these boneheads' minds so they stop busting assignments.

They've tried shuffling players already, the next step is to send those guys packing.

Originally posted by susweel:
why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

We don't. Odd the mods are allowing it.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by susweel:
why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

We don't. Odd the mods are allowing it.

favoritism

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by susweel:

why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

We don't. Odd the mods are allowing it.

favoritism

Allowing it for now, eventually in due time it will be merged.

But for now, personally I want to let the OP stand out as it was a well written and well thought out post. It has produced some well thought out and written responses and rebuttals furthering healthy discussion and debates with regards to a hot topic in Niner land.

It is not hurting anything and is instead creating good back and forth.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by susweel:
why do we need 3 saleh threads ?

We don't. Odd the mods are allowing it.

favoritism

Allowing it for now, eventually in due time it will be merged.

But for now, personally I want to let the OP stand out as it was a well written and well thought out post. It has produced some well thought out and written responses and rebuttals furthering healthy discussion and debates with regards to a hot topic in Niner land.

It is not hurting anything and is instead creating good back and forth.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by cciowa:

did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

Then I ask why is Greg out there? If Jimmy Ward is your starter and has a injury history longer than the closing docs on a property sale, then you should spend more time preparing Greg what to do if Jimmy should come out of a game. If he's not able to function at a basic level, it's the coach's job to talk to the HC and say, "hey we need to bring in some guys because Maybin can't function at all." Reminder - we did this last year.

Buuuuut that didn't happen. What happened was we stuck with Maybin and Saleh (again) just watched him fail.

Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

How much are those guys contributing?
Please explain the value of Moore as a resource for Saleh.

Didn't feel that this warranted going in another thread as this was a multidimensional topic that, while it involves Saleh, expands much further beyond him into what the real issue is.

The point here is to make the case that perhaps we should focus on a more detailed level at what really is the problem instead of blanket blaming Saleh because he's the DC.

In a nutshell, so far we've pointed out the following.

1.The team has improved statistically from last year and they have steadily addressed many of the early season issues that had been happening. Have to give some credit for that.

2. The mental errors are almost always coming from Colbert or the player at the LCB position. Tartt and Sherman know their assignments, why doesn't the other side? Beyond Saleh, who is responsible for the secondary? Think about that too.

3. We know we lack talent at edge which makes the secondary look even worse than it already is.

Like I said on the other page, we already tried changing players at left CB, and it hasn't worked. Our options are limited but at this point, players need to start getting shipped off so the message is loud and clear that basic mistakes are unacceptable and their jobs are on the line if they continue to fail to execute.