2019 Defensive Progress & Robert Saleh Hot-seat Tracker | Page 3

OnTheClock · 2018-10-17T06:09:24-07:00

10/17/18 - In defense of Robert Saleh.. (no pun intended).. Look, I am not thrilled with the big mistakes and I have been very critical of him at times this year myself, but at the same time I can't ignore that he adjusts well and does some other good things. Statistically we are better than last season and if you thoroughly evaluate the unit, you'd start to realize maybe it's not as bad as some think. Indications are that players may be more to blame so I'm trying not to be too emotional about how I assess him. Indications are that while it was a rough start and there's still room for improvement, we actually have improved from last season in a lot of areas, especially third down defense. Our tackling has gotten better recently as well. I think maybe they put too much faith in Warner to relay information as a rookie, but they probably expected him to get through those growing pains quicker. I see them trying to address issues like penalties by pulling Witherspoon off the field. I see them playing the more effective guys (Day, Blair) more often now even though they aren't making the most money. People are quick to point out the points per game allowed while completely ignoring the fact that our offense is the worst in the league at turning it over, and not just turning it over, but turning it over in scoring position for the opponent. On top of that, we've played four top ten offenses so far and face the #1 offense in the league this week. Yet, currently, this is where we rank statistically right now: Total Yards/Game: 19th Passing Yards/Game: 25th Rushing Yards/Game: 13th Yards/play: 16th Passing yards/play: 13th Rushing yards/play: 10th 3rd down defense: 12th Considering the units we've faced and the fact that we have no legitimate pass rusher, #2 corner, or the single high safety this defense needs, evidence points to this being a defense that is better than people think. Evidence shows that we've steadily worked to address problems we had early on in the season (tackling, penalties, third downs), and with that being true, it's reasonable to expect we are going to correct the missed assignments as well. Evidence indicates that perhaps we're jumping the gun in roasting Saleh and calling for him to be fired. Final thoughts: There are.. As odd as it is to say.. A lot of positive things we've got going. This doesn't mean Saleh has been perfect and can't be better in some ways, but this defense had a lot of issues to fix and maybe we need to be less emotional and recognize it takes time to fix that many problems -- problems which largely appear to be due to lack of experience and a lack of difference-making talent at a few key positions in this scheme. 10/19/18 - After days of discussion and the case made to assess levels of responsibility for the problems we've had on defense, it's now time to let the season play out and give Saleh a chance over the remaining games to show if he truly deserves to stay. It's simply too early to make that call. If we're still having issues by the final game, obviously one could make a much stronger case that there is a major coaching issue. I see zero chance we replace him mid-season, so let's see what happens. Outside of statistical tracking methods, we obviously want to take a look at some issues that can have a direct effect on those stats, including: * Blown assignments/communication * Situational awareness/coaching * Reasonable use of timeouts when defense appears confused

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:41 AM

#31

TheWooLick
Veteran
Posts: 44,694

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Kyle's offense is atop the NFL for turnovers. Magic?

Yes, despite the TO's. Imagine what he could do if he didn't have to deal with poor TO's.

Imagine if Saleh didn't have to deal with a lack of TOs and an abundance of missed tackles.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:43 AM

#32

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Kyle's offense is atop the NFL for turnovers. Magic?

Yes, despite the TO's. Imagine what he could do if he didn't have to deal with poor TO's.

Imagine if Saleh didn't have to deal with a lack of TOs and an abundance of missed tackles.

Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:46 AM

#33

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Kyle's offense is atop the NFL for turnovers. Magic?

Yes, despite the TO's. Imagine what he could do if he didn't have to deal with poor TO's.

Imagine if Saleh didn't have to deal with a lack of TOs and an abundance of missed tackles.

Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

even though he or cj or all of the above are still finding ways to lose winnable games. funny to see people still trying to lamely defend the alleged dc

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:50 AM

#34

SteveYoung
Member
Posts: 3,697

Originally posted by cciowa:
did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:50 AM

#35

SteveYoung
Member
Posts: 3,697

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

You can scheme offense. But defense needs talent.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:52 AM

#36

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by cciowa:
did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

its his job to teach and motivate players. but of course i am talking to the guy who thought the o line last year was just fine

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:53 AM

#37

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

You can scheme offense. But defense needs talent.

by talent do you mean thomas. ward aa marsh? pretty sure you like all those guys i am happy you have faith but i have no faith even if you upgraded the talent. this guy would know what to do with it

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM

#38

TheWooLick
Veteran
Posts: 44,694

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Kyle's offense is atop the NFL for turnovers. Magic?

Yes, despite the TO's. Imagine what he could do if he didn't have to deal with poor TO's.

Imagine if Saleh didn't have to deal with a lack of TOs and an abundance of missed tackles.

Kyle is still producing. Saleh is not.

Producing turnovers and short fields for the opposition.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM

#39

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Then I ask why is Greg out there? If Jimmy Ward is your starter and has a injury history longer than the closing docs on a property sale, then you should spend more time preparing Greg what to do if Jimmy should come out of a game. If he's not able to function at a basic level, it's the coach's job to talk to the HC and say, "hey we need to bring in some guys because Maybin can't function at all." Reminder - we did this last year.

Buuuuut that didn't happen. What happened was we stuck with Maybin and Saleh (again) just watched him fail.

sorry but the philosophy . aside from you just do not take the job of marsh and aa.. is to keep trash.. obtain more trash. extend trash and then HOPE said trash somehow gets better

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM

#40

TheWooLick
Veteran
Posts: 44,694

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by cciowa:
did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

Then I ask why is Greg out there? If Jimmy Ward is your starter and has a injury history longer than the closing docs on a property sale, then you should spend more time preparing Greg what to do if Jimmy should come out of a game. If he's not able to function at a basic level, it's the coach's job to talk to the HC and say, "hey we need to bring in some guys because Maybin can't function at all." Reminder - we did this last year.

Buuuuut that didn't happen. What happened was we stuck with Maybin and Saleh (again) just watched him fail.

If Saleh had to tell Shanahan the talent in the secondary sucks then Shanahan should be fired.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:57 AM

#41

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by cciowa:
did you see the game. it turned out bad.. and tell me please why we allowed the packer wide outs to work the sidelines late knowing they had no time outs left???? that is basic football and even espn people were saying.. i have no clue what the niners are doing. but of course we skip over that stuff

Because Greg Maybin sucks and has no idea what he is doing? Yep. That's Saleh's fault.

Stick to complaining about our Oline. You were on a roll.

Then I ask why is Greg out there? If Jimmy Ward is your starter and has a injury history longer than the closing docs on a property sale, then you should spend more time preparing Greg what to do if Jimmy should come out of a game. If he's not able to function at a basic level, it's the coach's job to talk to the HC and say, "hey we need to bring in some guys because Maybin can't function at all." Reminder - we did this last year.

Buuuuut that didn't happen. What happened was we stuck with Maybin and Saleh (again) just watched him fail.

Yup...finally rid ourselves on Donte Johnson. Focused on Witherspoon. Stayed with Mabin. Drafted Tarvarius Moore and D.J. Reed. Brought in Sherman. What other unit has been given more resources over the past two off seasons?

At some point, you need to teach these players and develop them.

[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM ]

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM

#42

kujon11
Veteran
Posts: 6,065

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by kujon11:
one thing that we didn't expect was the regression from adrian colbert and akhello witherspoon. colbert I kind of saw but akhello was unepxected on my part.

Just those two?

on the defensive side, those are the ones that stand out the most.

Oct 17, 2018 at 10:59 AM

#43

SteveYoung
Member
Posts: 3,697

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
The onus is on John Lynch for letting go of Dumervil and not drafting or acquiring a pass rusher to replace him. This front office put this guy in a horrible position.

And I don't care how much Saleh loves his big ends. If Lynch is listening to him like a robot and acquiescing him on his demands without thinking about it, then he should take ownership and solve the problems himself.

Now it is too late. We will be the top 5 worst defense in the league this year because of foolishness. I'm not deflecting 100% of the criticism away from Saleh, but fans need stop giving him 100% of the blame. The talent level on this team should stop being overrated. It's terrible in many areas.

Agreed. 100%

Colbert, Ward, Witherspoon and Maybin have no buisness starting at DB

Nzeocha and Smith have no buisness starting at LB

Mitchell and Thomas have no buisness starting on the DL.

2019 D

5T- ?
NT- ?
3T- Buckner / Day
LEO- ?

WILL- Foster
MIKE- Warner
SAM- ?

CB1- Sherman
CB2- ?
Nickle- Williams
CB4- ?
FS- ?
SS- Tartt

This D has so many holes and very little depth

Oct 17, 2018 at 11:00 AM

#44

OnTheClock
Hall of Fame
Posts: 38,537

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
EXCELLLNT post!

By far & away the fairest yet.

Thanks.

Thanks for the kind words. This post is not meant in the least to invalidate the complaints of fans right now. There are plenty of legitimate concerns and Saleh should be held accountable just as anyone else, but it's important to consider all possibilities as to why something is happening and not be too quick to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

There's a lot of season left to be played and like it or not, I sincerely doubt Saleh goes anywhere after this year. For now, I'm staying hopeful we can address the assignment issue like we addressed the tackling, penalties, and third down issues so far this year.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 17, 2018 at 11:01 AM ]

Oct 17, 2018 at 11:02 AM

#45

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by kujon11:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by kujon11:
one thing that we didn't expect was the regression from adrian colbert and akhello witherspoon. colbert I kind of saw but akhello was unepxected on my part.

Just those two?

on the defensive side, those are the ones that stand out the most.

Gotcha. Understood. It seems like a total team regression to me so was just asking.

It doesn't mean it can't turn around. It's just highly unlikely.