Week 2 2018 - Thoughts after rewatching the game... | Page 2

Marvin49 · 2018-09-18T09:15:40-07:00

So I waited a day on this one because I was at the game and didn't get a chance to re-watch it Sunday night. I wanted to make sure I saw what I thought I saw at the game. 1) Garoppolo: I THINK I know whats kinda going on with him. I'm not married to the theory but this is what I think. Last year he didn't know the offense really much at all and was just wingin it when he wasn't sure. Shanahan said as much about how often he goes off schedule when he isn't sure. He played several games that way and was impressive. Now, He's really trying to stay in the design of the play and he's still learning the offense. This isn't a negative BTW. ALL QBs struggle in their first year with Shanahan. Some called him the "QB KILLER" in the past. A good example is Matt Ryan. In year one with Shanahan, Ryan had 21 TDs, 16 INTs, a 7.48 Average per attempt, and a QB Rating of 89. In year TWO with Shanahan, he had 38 TDs, 7 INTs, a 9.26 Average per attempt, and a QB rating of 117.1. Yes, Jimmy came in last year and technically this is year 2 in SF, but he's only had one real offseason and 7 starts under Shanahan. This is all just a long way of saying I think Jimmys in his head just a bit. The combo of him trying to work through his reads, guys not getting open, and his desire not to throw INTs has frozen him a bit and is causing him to take sacks he shouldn't take and wouldn't have taken last year. It also means that once he's more comfortable I think he'll be a whole lot better. He had a rough week one and week 2 was good, but it just wasn't what our expectations are. Patience. 2) WRs: I also want to make this clear - It ain't all Jimmy. The guys running the routes are still making mistakes as well. Running wrong routes, dropping the ball, or simply not getting separation. This team is not a finished product. We'll get there. I never thought I'd say this before the season started last year, but Goodwin simply cannot come back fast enough. They need that speed out there. 3) Pettis: Dante Pettis to me is a bit of a conundrum. The way he runs is so unorthodox. I really like the guy but sometimes I can't really tell if he's not trying hard or if his style just makes it LOOK like he's not trying hard. He is so smooth and even when he jukes it isn't a quick twitch, jerky movement. I still think the way he runs routes sometimes throws off the QB and I think that's why on the air they spoke about Garoppolo running routes with him so that Pettis would know where the ball would be and when. Once they figure that out tho...wow. He could do real damage in space. 4) DeForest Buckner: Still a monster. 5) Breida: I have to admit, I've never really given Breida a chance. I've always doubted him. I've always wanted someone else to play ahead of him. Be it Joe Williams, or Jet, I've always hoped someone would beat him out...and I can't really even tell you why. That all stopped on Sunday. He got some great blocking so it wasn't all him, but that dude can play. He averaged 4.4 yards per carry LAST year to Hydes 3.9. This year (and yes its way early and the 66 yard run makes a big difference) he's averaging a whopping 8.4 yards per carry. Even if you remove the 66 yarder he's averaging 5.6 yards per carry. This is what the Shanahans do. They find guys seemingly from nowhere, they find specific traits they are looking for, they plug them in and BOOM, 1000 yard back. Terrell Davis. Olandis Gary. Mike Anderson. Arian Foster (Kubiak running Shanahan system and later having Kyle as OC). Alfred Morris. Its too early to say that's what Breida will be, but all my doubts on him have begun to dissipate. When it comes to the RB position, I trust in the Shanahan. 6) Pass Rush: This will be an issue all year, particularly from the outside. Solomon Thomas simply isn't that guy. He may end up being a very good player, but he's never going to be a premiere edge rusher. The 49ers won't be a REAL threat for a title until they find THAT guy. The 49ers in 1981 were good but it was the trade for Fred Dean that put them over the top. The Cowboys of the 90s were very good but it was the trade for Charles Haley that put THEM over the top. For me Khalil Mack could have been that guy but that option is gone. They need to find that guy. Teams these days put even more importance on that position than they did in the 80s or 90s so no sane team will give a good one up in trade. This will have to be a position they draft and I'd guess with an early pick next year. DeForest is a beast in the middle...now they need an outside rusher to compliment him. 7) Colbert: I was excited about his play late last year but i gotta say his star is falling dramatically for me. Bad angles, missed tackles, usually not in the picture in pass D and getting trucked by Blount (although admittedly he wasn't alone there). Hope he bounces back but so far color me unimpressed by his play. 8) Taylor: His lack of speed is beginning to show. Seems like he's having alot of trouble getting open this year. When the ball is thrown his way seems very often a safety is just waiting for it or a DB is draped all over him. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point this year we start seeing Ritchie James. I like Taylor and maybe he bounces back, but I have my doubts. 9) Kittle: Man that guy would be a monster if he'd hang onto the ball. Now the worst drop he had was admittedly a great play by the defender, but Kittle has a huge upside. No, he isn't Vernon Davis, but there has only ever been one Vernon Davis. Ever. What he can be though is a faster Jason Witten. I'll take that. 10) LB: WOW has the LB play sucked this year. Warner is out there playing very well (although makes a few mistakes and I still don't think he plays as physically as he should), but every other LB is just horrible. Lee was faster than Coyle (low bar to clear) but its no help to get to the spot of you can't make the play when you get there. Nzeocha was no better. There is some good news tho. For a long time I've been wanting to say this. There were some times that I thought it would never happen and that his time was done. His legal problems are behind him. His suspension is behind him. If he stays on the right path, its ALL behind him. Reuben. Is. Back.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:02 AM

#16

951NINER
Veteran
Posts: 2,906

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
Great post. I agree with you about Colbert, I was so high on him going into year 2 but he has played very poorly the first two games

AC‏Verified account @AdrianColbert27 Sep 16More
I'll always be my biggest critic, I don't need "so called" fans DMing me about stuff I know that needs to be fixed. Period.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:28 AM

#17

LifelongNiner
Veteran
Posts: 24,758

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
receivers were overhyped in the off season. The national media perspective was that we had a bunch of nobodies, and Niner fans along with the local media got upset at them because they kept talking about Dez Bryant and this and that.

Well guess what. They were right.

I think it's the other way around. National media was overhyping the team + maybe 2/3 of the fans here. But there were some sensible ones who kept the predictions to 6 to 10 wins. I will say that I don't think Dez Bryant would be the answer. We need some speed.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by lamontb:
Yea Colbert isn't making any plays, and Tartt looks even worse. They need to step it up. The linebacker play has been god awful. Really nothing to say or that we can do about the pass rush. We just don't have the players

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. To me its the biggest goal out of the offseason next year. They gotta get some guys there. Not one, but several. Marsh isn't the guy. Marsh is a guy you replace.
I'd say a free agent and two draft picks

Best way to go. Triple dip. I want two guys that have the potential to start. I don't even mind a Jeremiah Attaochu type of signing (meaning taking a veteran) AS LONG as that player is not being depended on to be the answer at pass rush, but rather just another guy who has a chance to earn a roster spot. But you cannot depend on the Attaochu's and Marsh's of the world to be your main guys at the position. Same with Solomon Thomas. His game has been hurt so much by this neglect of that position. It's getting to be Tank Carradine-like mismanagement.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:29 AM

#18

LifelongNiner
Veteran
Posts: 24,758

Originally posted by 951NINER:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
Great post. I agree with you about Colbert, I was so high on him going into year 2 but he has played very poorly the first two games
AC‏Verified account @AdrianColbert27 Sep 16More
I'll always be my biggest critic, I don't need "so called" fans DMing me about stuff I know that needs to be fixed. Period.

I'll be honest, I never liked that - fans speaking personally to a player about their job performance. I wouldn't do that to any other person about their job, short of elected officials. But football players? Let them be.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:35 AM

#19

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,130

So basically kyle is destroying a perfectly coached up qb. Got it

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:35 AM

#20

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 951NINER:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
Great post. I agree with you about Colbert, I was so high on him going into year 2 but he has played very poorly the first two games
AC‏Verified account @AdrianColbert27 Sep 16More
I'll always be my biggest critic, I don't need "so called" fans DMing me about stuff I know that needs to be fixed. Period.

I'll be honest, I never liked that - fans speaking personally to a player about their job performance. I wouldn't do that to any other person about their job, short of elected officials. But football players? Let them be.

Agreed.

I have an opinion of his play that I'll express here, but telling him is kinda out of bounds. He know more than any of us what he's done wrong.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:36 AM

#21

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by susweel:
So basically kyle is destroying a perfectly coached up qb. Got it

Same ol' Sus.

Yes, Kyle is ruining him in the same way that he "ruined" Matt Ryan in 2015. Its to bad that Ryan was ruined for the rest of his career...what? Huh? Whats that you say? League MVP in 2016?

Oh. Nevermind. :D

[ Edited by Marvin49 on Sep 18, 2018 at 10:38 AM ]

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:45 AM

#22

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

everything about this team was over hyped in my opinion in the off season by the media and a whole bunch of fans on this web site and 99 per cent of the mods

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:45 AM

#23

gold49digger
Veteran
Posts: 17,719

I completely agree with your theory on Jimmy. Shanahans offense is known to be tough on QBs and having to wing it last year simplified it a lot for him. Right now he has a million thoughts going on in his head, from the scheme to game planning to figuring out his receivers cause besides Bourne, Kittle, and Celek,(hopefully a healthy goodiwn from here on out) he's pretty unfamiliar with a lot of his targets. Of course this does not excuse him from some bonehead throws that he made from the first 2 games but I think he will be fine. We will be able to tell once he gets the offense clicking cause this offense will flow beautifully when the potential is realized. Does Jimmy have things in his game that warrants criticism? Definitely. He gets lazy on his mechanics, which is evident by some inaccurate throws he has from time to time and he has a little hero ball in him where he forces unwarranted throws that are costly.

Breida will be fun to watch and hoping he gets better as the season goes on!

Once again great post Marvin these threads are why you are one of my favorite posters on this site

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:45 AM

#24

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,479

Great Stuff Marvin, and the .Nut boards are imploding!

Agree on Garoppolo, he's struggling with the full playbook. And so is the rookies and 2nd year players too. Keep in mind the WR's and Arby's have to handle the full playbook too now above and beyond what they were doing in that 5-0 run. Getting the OLine and WR's healthy is going to be big going into KC. Brieda developing as a pass receiver gives Garoppolo another option similar to McKinnon and I'm pretty sure Kyle can get *another* Brieda (an undrafted RB) next year to back up Brieda if McKinnon can't make it back 100% from injury. Back to Jimmy, I think the way he's such a fast learner and his incredible off schedule talent, I would say give him till mid season to master this offense to the 80% level.

Agree on the WR's. We need more speed, and we do have it. Pettis is one of the faster receivers in the draft. I don't think he'll be trying out for the Olympics in Tokyo in 2020 but he has the speed to scare DB's enough to give him a cushion and break man to man coverage, it's just that he needs to run the correct routs and get acclimated to the NFL level of speed and competition.

Pass rush, agree. Deforest will be our designated pass rusher (either rushing from the inside or at LEO) we got nobody else. If they can just get a guy that can be a credible pass rusher - this defense will be formidable. *IF* Blair, Day, and Pita develop - conceivably they can move Buckner back inside where he's - as you said - a monster. Otherwise, unfortunately you are right - we won't get one via trade and will have to wait till the draft.

Linebackers, with Reuben back, that should improve. There were a couple of 3rd and mid range where the pass rush forced Stafford to dump off and if the LB's could have tackled the pass receiver prior to the first down marker, it would have been a 3 and out. The west coast offense has always had problems with teams that have excellent linebackers. Who can forget the New York Giants eliminating us from a 3 peat because of their excellent linebackers. With Reuben and Fred, we have the linebackers to slow down Fat Andy's offense. (which is a more stone age version of Kyle Shanahan's offense)

Taylor and Kittle - they are going to be a good combo. Focus on Taylor, Kittle will kill you. Focus on Kittle, Taylor/Goodwin/Garcon will score on you. In other words, I'm not worried about Taylor. He's healthy and his back surgery shouldn't have affected his speed and agility. If defenses are clumping around the middle of the field and smothering the in-between the hashmark routes, that opens the outside zone run to the edges and also misdirection play-passes. Kyle will adjust his offense to counter the counters of the defensive coordinators.

I say wait about another two games before the offense hits it's cruising speed. 49er are averaging almost 20 points a game, and they are still in the takeoff stage, wait till they hit cruising speed - assuming everybody gets healthy on offense - Kyle will blow Fat Andy's offense out of the water.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:51 AM

#25

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
I'm hoping the kids in the secondary read too many press clippings about the end of last season. Last season Tartt, Colbert and Witherspoon were trying to prove themselves. They need to realize that they should still be proving themselves. Having Eric Reid on the team would send a signal to Tartt and Colbert.

My own theory. Guys like Thomas, Colbert, Tartt and Witherspoon were GRINDING all off season and all seem to be hitting a mid-season like wall at the same exact time. Coincidence?

Like a rookie who has to learn how to play through a longer NFL season vs. college, they'll adjust and push through it.

Hopefully within a few more games they get their 2nd wind and get back to form.

[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 18, 2018 at 10:52 AM ]

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM

#26

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,130

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by susweel:
So basically kyle is destroying a perfectly coached up qb. Got it

Same ol' Sus.

Yes, Kyle is ruining him in the same way that he "ruined" Matt Ryan in 2015. Its to bad that Ryan was ruined for the rest of his career...what? Huh? Whats that you say? League MVP in 2016?

Oh. Nevermind. :D

What's your opinion on the worst player in the secondary akello wisherspoon ?

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:58 AM

#27

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,479

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
I'm hoping the kids in the secondary read too many press clippings about the end of last season. Last season Tartt, Colbert and Witherspoon were trying to prove themselves. They need to realize that they should still be proving themselves. Having Eric Reid on the team would send a signal to Tartt and Colbert.

My own theory. Guys like Thomas, Colbert, Tartt and Witherspoon were GRINDING all off season and all seem to be hitting a mid-season like wall at the same exact time. Coincidence?

Like a rookie who has to learn how to play through a longer NFL season vs. college, they'll adjust and push through it.

Hopefully within a few more games they get their 2nd wind and get back to form.

Good point, and I'll just add that the young DB's have faced some good QB's. Cousins and Stafford are not Hoyer and Kaepernick. These guys can pass. So they will suffer some setbacks. The only thing you can do against good QB's in this day of the NFL pass happy rules is to have a pass rush. Picks, rubs, play action passes just put a DB in such a difficult and disadvantageous situation that allowing a QB 4+ seconds in the pocket will turn an all pro secondary to average faster than Brieda can run 5 yards.

Sep 18, 2018 at 10:58 AM

#28

Ensatsu
Veteran
Posts: 9,417

It will take Kyle Shanahan like 5 years to get Jimmy G to that Matt Ryan MVP level, and that's only if we luck out on a Julio Jones in the draft.

I don't want to hear these excuses that he's still learning the scheme. We will probably say that next year too unless these receivers step up.

Sep 18, 2018 at 11:02 AM

#29

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,130

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
It will take Kyle Shanahan like 5 years to get Jimmy G to that Matt Ryan MVP level, and that's only if we luck out on a Julio Jones in the draft.

I don't want to hear these excuses that he's still learning the scheme. We will probably say that next year too unless these receivers step up.

Yeah that excuse aint gonna fly when you pay that much money to a player. He's gotta perform now or its a disaster.

Sep 18, 2018 at 11:02 AM

#30

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,479

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
It will take Kyle Shanahan like 5 years to get Jimmy G to that Matt Ryan MVP level, and that's only if we luck out on a Julio Jones in the draft.

I don't want to hear these excuses that he's still learning the scheme. We will probably say that next year too unless these receivers step up.

At one point the offense was +17 ahead. It wasn't the offense that let the Lions back into the game.