Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by thl408:

Well the one thing with this defense is that division rivals get to play it 4 times a season (SEAx2, SFx2) so they are going to have ways to beat it, and more importantly, they will get reps to practice beating it. The 49ers seemed to want to take away the intermediate routes, so they would have the LBs gain depth to defend the intermediate, but then ARI would throw a short pass to the RBs.

As an underneath zone defender, there's a feeling of timing to how route combinations develop. Zone defenders are always taught to take away the High read first then go to the Low read when defending a vertical stretch. There's a sense of timing that has to become instinctual as he gains depth to take away the High read, then instinctually know when the QB is progressing to the Low read, and get a head start on breaking towards that route.

SEA LBs do this well. Partly because they know they have a good pass rush to support them. Take away the High read, know that the QB is running out of time in the pocket and will be progressing to his Low read. Break towards the Low route, just before the QB starts his throwing motion and limit RAC. I'll post a few plays of how simple it was for ARI to attack the 49er LBs in the short passing game.

Terrific...thanks for the education!

Originally posted by thl408:

Well the one thing with this defense is that division rivals get to play it 4 times a season (SEAx2, SFx2) so they are going to have ways to beat it, and more importantly, they will get reps to practice beating it. The 49ers seemed to want to take away the intermediate routes, so they would have the LBs gain depth to defend the intermediate, but then ARI would throw a short pass to the RBs.

As an underneath zone defender, there's a feeling of timing to how route combinations develop. Zone defenders are always taught to take away the High read first then go to the Low read when defending a vertical stretch. There's a sense of timing that has to become instinctual as he gains depth to take away the High read, then instinctually know when the QB is progressing to the Low read, and get a head start on breaking towards that route.

SEA LBs do this well. Partly because they know they have a good pass rush to support them. Take away the High read, know that the QB is running out of time in the pocket and will be progressing to his Low read. Break towards the Low route, just before the QB starts his throwing motion and limit RAC. I'll post a few plays of how simple it was for ARI to attack the 49er LBs in the short passing game.

Limit RAC is exactly what Kyle said in his pressers about the passes to the backs. He mentioned specifically that the goal is to rally up and make those 5 Yard gains as opposed to 10-12 yard checks.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here was, IMO the biggest missed opportunity in the game. It's so crucial because it was in OT, down in the red zone.

He ends up finding Hyde for 7 yards. But....it coulda been game over...

Truly heartbreaking. And maddening at the same time. He had an amazing pocket with tons of time. We need to look at this on film and run this concept again with Hoyer hitting the guy at the Pylon next time.

oh no doubt they looked at it alright.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:
Well the one thing with this defense is that division rivals get to play it 4 times a season (SEAx2, SFx2) so they are going to have ways to beat it, and more importantly, they will get reps to practice beating it. The 49ers seemed to want to take away the intermediate routes, so they would have the LBs gain depth to defend the intermediate, but then ARI would throw a short pass to the RBs.

As an underneath zone defender, there's a feeling of timing to how route combinations develop. Zone defenders are always taught to take away the High read first then go to the Low read when defending a vertical stretch. There's a sense of timing that has to become instinctual as he gains depth to take away the High read, then instinctually know when the QB is progressing to the Low read, and get a head start on breaking towards that route.

SEA LBs do this well. Partly because they know they have a good pass rush to support them. Take away the High read, know that the QB is running out of time in the pocket and will be progressing to his Low read. Break towards the Low route, just before the QB starts his throwing motion and limit RAC. I'll post a few plays of how simple it was for ARI to attack the 49er LBs in the short passing game.

Limit RAC is exactly what Kyle said in his pressers about the passes to the backs. He mentioned specifically that the goal is to rally up and make those 5 Yard gains as opposed to 10-12 yard checks.

I think, and hope, that Foster will plug that. He showed that intuition in pre season and those few snaps vs Carolina.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Limit RAC is exactly what Kyle said in his pressers about the passes to the backs. He mentioned specifically that the goal is to rally up and make those 5 Yard gains as opposed to 10-12 yard checks.

It's what Kyle has said from the start since he hired Saleh isn't it? He likes this style of D because it forces you to have to work your way down the field and earn the points you put up.

At the end of the day we held the Cardinals to 12 points in regulation, with a D they've seen plenty of times before. Yeah, they weren't at full strength, but neither were we.

Originally posted by Buchy:

I think, and hope, that Foster will plug that. He showed that intuition in pre season and those few snaps vs Carolina.

I agree.....he's got that special look. Again it's way earlier but he looks freakish.

Originally posted by WolfTotem:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Limit RAC is exactly what Kyle said in his pressers about the passes to the backs. He mentioned specifically that the goal is to rally up and make those 5 Yard gains as opposed to 10-12 yard checks.

It's what Kyle has said from the start since he hired Saleh isn't it? He likes this style of D because it forces you to have to work your way down the field and earn the points you put up.

At the end of the day we held the Cardinals to 12 points in regulation, with a D they've seen plenty of times before. Yeah, they weren't at full strength, but neither were we.

It's a sound scheme. When you couple with pass rush it's deadly. Normally it's only really good QBs that are gonna consistently dink an dunk you down the field flawlessly.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here was, IMO the biggest missed opportunity in the game. It's so crucial because it was in OT, down in the red zone.

He ends up finding Hyde for 7 yards. But....it coulda been game over...

Truly heartbreaking. And maddening at the same time. He had an amazing pocket with tons of time. We need to look at this on film and run this concept again with Hoyer hitting the guy at the Pylon next time.

oh no doubt they looked at it alright.

Put yourself in Hoyer's shoes here. He actually made the correct play based on his read.

The motion shows ARI in man coverage. Single high FS. Hoyer does the right thing in reading the FS helping over the 3 trips side. Because Hoyer is to freeze the FS, he's not looking at the bunch routes and is already assuming the corner route has man coverage. He sees the FS shifting over to help double the corner route. Now he knows Hyde is running a flat circle route right to to the spot vacated by the FS. One would think Hyde would have an easy cut inside towards the TD but it was a great tackle/coverage by the SS on Hyde.

Yes, it was blown coverage and Hoyer could have looked at the corner route but what if ARI didn't blow coverage? Then Hoyer would have to look at the TE first, see it could be covered and then look at the FS to see where he's at and then move to the right side.

I think his progression and read was right but a QB can't expect that coverage to be blown. If he stared at the TE the entire way (like a bad QB), then he would have made the play...by accident.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Put yourself in Hoyer's shoes here. He actually made the correct play based on his read.

The motion shows ARI in man coverage. Single high FS. Hoyer does the right thing in reading the FS helping over the 3 trips side. Because Hoyer is to freeze the FS, he's not looking at the bunch routes and is already assuming the corner route has man coverage. He sees the FS shifting over to help double the corner route. Now he knows Hyde is running a flat circle route right to to the spot vacated by the FS. One would think Hyde would have an easy cut inside towards the TD but it was a great tackle/coverage by the SS on Hyde.

Yes, it was blown coverage and Hoyer could have looked at the corner route but what if ARI didn't blow coverage? Then Hoyer would have to look at the TE first, see it could be covered and then look at the FS to see where he's at and then move to the right side.

I think his progression and read was right but a QB can't expect that coverage to be blown. If he stared at the TE the entire way (like a bad QB), then he would have made the play...by accident.

What? A QB isn't expected to take advantage of a blown coverage?

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Here was, IMO the biggest missed opportunity in the game. It's so crucial because it was in OT, down in the red zone.

He ends up finding Hyde for 7 yards. But....it coulda been game over...

Truly heartbreaking. And maddening at the same time. He had an amazing pocket with tons of time. We need to look at this on film and run this concept again with Hoyer hitting the guy at the Pylon next time.

oh no doubt they looked at it alright.

there's another play the pass he threw away had Taylor open at the corner of the endzone

see it on the first page now

nice two easy shots to win the game and nope lol

Originally posted by thl408:

I posted this in the other post game thread, but it should go in here too. This is later in that OT drive, the 3rd down play.

This play I had to see on all22 to see why Hoyer threw it away with a chance to win it in OT.


3rd & 5
Snag vs Cover 1. The progression on the combination could be Corner-Snag-Flat, but because on this play the Flat route is coming from the slot (and not the backfield), the progression on this play is Corner-Flat-Snag. Making the Flat third in the progression would lead to him running out of bounds by the time it's the third read.


ARI will pattern match. Garcon starts his crosser. Red CB makes the 'Under' call and puts Yellow on alert to pick up Garcon, then Red sags to find work.


Read 1: the Corner. Red has outside leverage, will match and defeat the Corner route.


Read 2:The Flat route has no separation.


Hoyer throws it away without giving Garcon a try - with open space to work a Pivot route. It would have taken an anticipation throw.


And he didn't take the sack. Needed to run clock.


Garcon pushing off to get separation on the LB.


They put a TE to 1v1 a DE. That DE ended up pressuring.

I know I've posted this before but Mike Shanahan was doing some different stuff on snag/spot concepts in 1994. I wonder if Kyle uses any of this. Flat was primary for us in 1994.

This is 1994 niners Spot/snag

Originally posted by SoCold:
there's another play the pass he threw away had Taylor open at the corner of the endzone

see it on the first page now

nice two easy shots to win the game and nope lol

I don't think Taylor was open. The CB peeled off once Hoyer threw the ball away. On the radio broadcast, the 49ers play by play said Taylor was wide open. No way.

Originally posted by SoCold:
there's another play the pass he threw away had Taylor open at the corner of the endzone

see it on the first page now

nice two easy shots to win the game and nope lol

Taylor was definitely not open on that throw away. He might have had a chance with Garcon if he didn't give up so fast.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by SoCold:
there's another play the pass he threw away had Taylor open at the corner of the endzone

see it on the first page now

nice two easy shots to win the game and nope lol

I don't think Taylor was open. The CB peeled off once Hoyer threw the ball away. On the radio broadcast, the 49ers play by play said Taylor was wide open. No way.

It's an easy throw to the front corner of the endzone. No he's not wide open. You just put the ball on the pylon. Either Taylor makes a great catch or it's incomplete.

Originally posted by SoCold:
It's an easy throw to the front corner of the endzone. No he's not wide open. You just put the ball on the pylon. Either Taylor makes a great catch or it's incomplete.

Kyle said Garcon was the 2nd read on this play in the post game conference, I'm pretty sure he was talking about this play...

Not sure why Hoyer didn't pull the trigger.