49ers WR Thread (Shanny Offense)

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sounds like decker is gonna get cut...I'd rather have him than Maclin honestly

Same. Different dimension more useable for this offense. Bigger body that's a good route runner.

6'3 220. We badly need a bigger body at the ZWR (outside) to compliment all our micro WR's...although, it seems like we'll be tapping into the TE's and Juice more for that (at least this year).

Pierre is a good size at 6-0 and 211 LB's. Aaron Burbidge and Kendrick Bourne are over 200 lbs. DeAndre is 227 Lb's. I think we have some good sized WR's on the team already. Whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

Curious if they look into Eric Decker. Not sure if he fits the mold of what Shanahan is looking for, but from 2012 - 2015 he averaged 10+ TDs and about 1100 yards over that span.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sounds like decker is gonna get cut...I'd rather have him than Maclin honestly

Same. Different dimension more useable for this offense. Bigger body that's a good route runner.

6'3 220. We badly need a bigger body at the ZWR (outside) to compliment all our micro WR's...although, it seems like we'll be tapping into the TE's and Juice more for that (at least this year).

Pierre is a good size at 6-0 and 211 LB's. Aaron Burbidge and Kendrick Bourne are over 200 lbs. DeAndre is 227 Lb's. I think we have some good sized WR's on the team already. Whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

Yeah, Pierre will assume the Z for us most likely but IMHO, he's more ideal for the X opposite a Julio Jones-type. But he'll be fine though. It seems like, for now, Kyle really likes the smaller, shiftier receivers who can get instant separation right off the LOS (which is great when you're playing bigger DB's like Seattle who can't move laterally as well). Kyle will adjust to the personnel he does have but ideally, you'd like at least one bigger body outside at the Z with an excellent/huge catching radius, can high point, shield well, muscle through, take hits over the middle, etc. (i.e. Mike Williams to the Chargers / Kelvin Benjamin to the Panthers). Fans forget that both Jerry Rice and John Taylor were two of the biggest WR's in the game at that time and together, were unstoppable against the smaller DB's. But with a new era, and DB's not being able to touch WR's anymore (unless you're Seattle or Baltimore, of course), Kyle may be morphing to more micro-WR's (quickness and speed vs. size and strength).

Next off season should give us some insight into what his real ideals are...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sounds like decker is gonna get cut...I'd rather have him than Maclin honestly

Same. Different dimension more useable for this offense. Bigger body that's a good route runner.

6'3 220. We badly need a bigger body at the ZWR (outside) to compliment all our micro WR's...although, it seems like we'll be tapping into the TE's and Juice more for that (at least this year).

Pierre is a good size at 6-0 and 211 LB's. Aaron Burbidge and Kendrick Bourne are over 200 lbs. DeAndre is 227 Lb's. I think we have some good sized WR's on the team already. Whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

Yeah, Pierre will assume the Z for us most likely but IMHO, he's more ideal for the X opposite a Julio Jones-type. But he'll be fine though. It seems like, for now, Kyle really likes the smaller, shiftier receivers who can get instant separation right off the LOS (which is great when you're playing bigger DB's like Seattle who can't move laterally as well). Kyle will adjust to the personnel he does have but ideally, you'd like at least one bigger body outside at the Z with an excellent/huge catching radius, can high point, shield well, muscle through, take hits over the middle, etc. (i.e. Mike Williams to the Chargers / Kelvin Benjamin to the Panthers). Fans forget that both Jerry Rice and John Taylor were two of the biggest WR's in the game at that time and together, were unstoppable against the smaller DB's. But with a new era, and DB's not being able to touch WR's anymore (unless you're Seattle or Baltimore, of course), Kyle may be morphing to more micro-WR's (quickness and speed vs. size and strength).

Next off season should give us some insight into what his real ideals are...

Good point regarding these small shifty receivers and the new rules changes. I hadn't really thought about how those changes impact the WR - only thought about it regarding the TE's. I think that's what Thl408 was saying about the Z receiver being the new RB's in the modern age of football.

If our QB position is solid going into 2018, I wouldn't mind Kyle spending draft capital to add depth to the Z receiver position. That position take a beating in the WCO system. Clark and Terrell were proto-type receivers for us back in the day, and if we can get a freak 240 pound WR guy that can run like a gazelle, I don't think anybody can stop Kyle's offense.

Excluding Julio Jones because he's an absolute genetic outlier, I would venture to say that Kyle's "ideal" WR would look something like Amari Cooper. A WR with good size that explodes off the line, has controlled short-area quickness and is a legitimate vertical threat with, most importantly, precise route-running, excellent body control, and ability to make plays with the ball in his hands.

Amari is that classic JR/JT WCO archetype. His route running is surgical.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Excluding Julio Jones because he's an absolute genetic outlier, I would venture to say that Kyle's "ideal" WR would look something like Amari Cooper. A WR with good size that explodes off the line, has controlled short-area quickness and is a legitimate vertical threat with, most importantly, precise route-running, excellent body control, and ability to make plays with the ball in his hands.

Amari is that classic JR/JT WCO archetype.

That's a good one. Someone who can 'deliver' the blows over the middle on slant routes (or absorb them) and then take it to the house. Guys that are never really "covered" despite two DB's hanging all over them. Guys that can make a catch on a slant for a diving first down and then come right back and run a post pattern for a TD. Someone that commands double-teams.

Great point about routes...that's what separated JR. His ability to do the above and run his routes so precisely. He didn't have top end speed so that forced him to focused on his short area quickness and winning routes immediately off the LOS by making each route look the same to the DB.

In the WCO you win your routes at the LOS so often.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good point regarding these small shifty receivers and the new rules changes. I hadn't really thought about how those changes impact the WR - only thought about it regarding the TE's. I think that's what Thl408 was saying about the Z receiver being the new RB's in the modern age of football.

If our QB position is solid going into 2018, I wouldn't mind Kyle spending draft capital to add depth to the Z receiver position. That position take a beating in the WCO system. Clark and Terrell were proto-type receivers for us back in the day, and if we can get a freak 240 pound WR guy that can run like a gazelle, I don't think anybody can stop Kyle's offense.

Yeah, the slot WR (Y) really has taken the place of the RB's in the catching game so often now. Instead of Ricky Watters running out of the backfield it's now the slot WR doing a lot of that. It's no surprise Kyle resigned Kerley and drafted Taylor for this very reason. Granted, Kyle will still very much involve the backs in the passing game too but it's another tool to use.

I could see Kyle liking Calvin Ridley in this upcoming 2018 draft. He's made from that WCO mold and shares many similarities with his predecessor Amari.

However, if Kyle is a proponent of the Bill Walsh school of football philosophy, don't expect us to invest precious resources in WRs anytime soon. Bill Walsh believed in investing resources in the WR position last and only until everything else on the team was in place. Mike Lombardi talked about it a couple of weeks ago on 95.7.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I could see Kyle liking Calvin Ridley in this upcoming 2018 draft. He's made from that WCO mold and shares many similarities with his predecessor Amari.

However, if Kyle is a proponent of the Bill Walsh school of football philosophy, don't expect us to invest precious resources in WRs anytime soon. Bill Walsh believed in investing resources in the WR position last and only until everything else on the team was in place. Mike Lombardi talked about it a couple of weeks ago on 95.7.

Well, Walsh did invest in WR's and he used a number 1 for Jerry and a 3 for Taylor, I think he traded for Solomon who was a 2nd round pick for Miami. Point is that he knew the WR position so well that when he picked them, like Dwight, they fit and they were immediately productive and they lasted a long time in his offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, Walsh did invest in WR's and he used a number 1 for Jerry and a 3 for Taylor, I think he traded for Solomon who was a 2nd round pick for Miami. Point is that he knew the WR position so well that when he picked them, like Dwight, they fit and they were immediately productive and they lasted a long time in his offense.

Bill Walsh did not acquire Freddie Solomon, and you might want to re-read what I posted:

Bill Walsh believed in investing resources in the WR position last and only until everything else on the team was in place

And these are not my thoughts, they come directly from Mike Lombardi, who worked with Bill Walsh from 1984 to 1987.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good point regarding these small shifty receivers and the new rules changes. I hadn't really thought about how those changes impact the WR - only thought about it regarding the TE's. I think that's what Thl408 was saying about the Z receiver being the new RB's in the modern age of football.

If our QB position is solid going into 2018, I wouldn't mind Kyle spending draft capital to add depth to the Z receiver position. That position take a beating in the WCO system. Clark and Terrell were proto-type receivers for us back in the day, and if we can get a freak 240 pound WR guy that can run like a gazelle, I don't think anybody can stop Kyle's offense.

Yeah, the slot WR (Y) really has taken the place of the RB's in the catching game so often now. Instead of Ricky Watters running out of the backfield it's now the slot WR doing a lot of that. It's no surprise Kyle resigned Kerley and drafted Taylor for this very reason. Granted, Kyle will still very much involve the backs in the passing game too but it's another tool to use.

I don't know much about Taylor, but if he bolsters depth at that critical position, Kyle is ahead of the game in my opinion. Again, that possession receiver role take a big beating. And if Taylor can add depth at those positions, that will go a long way to making our QB's and RB's productive throughout the whole season.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sounds like decker is gonna get cut...I'd rather have him than Maclin honestly

Same. Different dimension more useable for this offense. Bigger body that's a good route runner.

6'3 220. We badly need a bigger body at the ZWR (outside) to compliment all our micro WR's...although, it seems like we'll be tapping into the TE's and Juice more for that (at least this year).

Pierre is a good size at 6-0 and 211 LB's. Aaron Burbidge and Kendrick Bourne are over 200 lbs. DeAndre is 227 Lb's. I think we have some good sized WR's on the team already. Whether they are good or not remains to be seen.

size isn't the problem with us, we need height. We haven't had a true redzone target (i.e. Fitz, Calvin, Mike Williams, etc) type receiver since when? T.O.? and he wasn't really a "go up there and get it" type of receiver, but his big body frame and height allowed him to dominate DBs.

hands + size is one thing when it comes to catching footballs. Height + size + hands is a whole different story. We need that.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Good point regarding these small shifty receivers and the new rules changes. I hadn't really thought about how those changes impact the WR - only thought about it regarding the TE's. I think that's what Thl408 was saying about the Z receiver being the new RB's in the modern age of football.

If our QB position is solid going into 2018, I wouldn't mind Kyle spending draft capital to add depth to the Z receiver position. That position take a beating in the WCO system. Clark and Terrell were proto-type receivers for us back in the day, and if we can get a freak 240 pound WR guy that can run like a gazelle, I don't think anybody can stop Kyle's offense.

Yeah, the slot WR (Y) really has taken the place of the RB's in the catching game so often now. Instead of Ricky Watters running out of the backfield it's now the slot WR doing a lot of that. It's no surprise Kyle resigned Kerley and drafted Taylor for this very reason. Granted, Kyle will still very much involve the backs in the passing game too but it's another tool to use.

I don't know much about Taylor, but if he bolsters depth at that critical position, Kyle is ahead of the game in my opinion. Again, that possession receiver role take a big beating. And if Taylor can add depth at those positions, that will go a long way to making our QB's and RB's productive throughout the whole season.

Think of Kerley and Taylor being used or looked at as being a way to beat Seattle like NE did VS SEA&ATL with Edelman and Amendola.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Excluding Julio Jones because he's an absolute genetic outlier, I would venture to say that Kyle's "ideal" WR would look something like Amari Cooper. A WR with good size that explodes off the line, has controlled short-area quickness and is a legitimate vertical threat with, most importantly, precise route-running, excellent body control, and ability to make plays with the ball in his hands.

Amari is that classic JR/JT WCO archetype. His route running is surgical.

he is only 6'1'' height wise, we have too many of those types of receivers. We need a big guy that is also fast and can catch. Someone else mentioned it, "240 pound WR that can run like a gazelle"

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Excluding Julio Jones because he's an absolute genetic outlier, I would venture to say that Kyle's "ideal" WR would look something like Amari Cooper. A WR with good size that explodes off the line, has controlled short-area quickness and is a legitimate vertical threat with, most importantly, precise route-running, excellent body control, and ability to make plays with the ball in his hands.

Amari is that classic JR/JT WCO archetype.

That's a good one. Someone who can 'deliver' the blows over the middle on slant routes (or absorb them) and then take it to the house. Guys that are never really "covered" despite two DB's hanging all over them. Guys that can make a catch on a slant for a diving first down and then come right back and run a post pattern for a TD. Someone that commands double-teams.

Great point about routes...that's what separated JR. His ability to do the above and run his routes so precisely. He didn't have top end speed so that forced him to focused on his short area quickness and winning routes immediately off the LOS by making each route look the same to the DB.

In the WCO you win your routes at the LOS so often.

I'd take michael crabtree over Cooper any day (including route running, hands, etc)

Easily.