If he stays out of trouble will the 49ers pay to keep Aldon Smith?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Harold was judged up and down by a lot of people some had him as a late first others had him as a 3rd....pass rush is one of the most important spots in football and if he does have the best first step in the draft, why did he go in the 3rd? He's pretty raw and needs a lot of work, solid depth this year NOT even close to a replacement for Smith (who was the 7th pick in the draft for a reason).

Heck if they resign him in the off-season I'm all for it ... I did post this article earlier in the thread, which stated how Smith's goal is to stay with the Niners long-term.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476845/article/aldon-smith-restructures-2015-contract-with-niners

Teams never let top pass rushers leave, it just doesn't happen. That's like Rogers/Brady/Brees all leaving in their prime. Pass rushers are the equivalent of that on defense. Saying Harold is a negotiating piece is like telling Rogers (in his prime) that we drafted a 3rd round QB so you need to take a deal lol.

Any real football fan knows Justin's worth for this squad. He's position isn't supposed to generate big numbers. No doubt he helped Lynch/Brooks/Smith the past couple seasons, man I hope he comes back!

We resigned Bowman, extended Willis and we paid Brooks a ton of money. This team is willing to invest in the LB position. JJ Watt deal is for a DL not a LB. Clay Matthews is the deal we will work from and likely surpass is Aldon is graded out where we think he will be. We can afford to pay him and I see no reason we won't so long as his grade remains high. He is the pass rusher we've longed for more than a decade so we ain't letting him leave. Brooks will before Aldon does and I think we make this happen

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Harold was judged up and down by a lot of people some had him as a late first others had him as a 3rd....pass rush is one of the most important spots in football and if he does have the best first step in the draft, why did he go in the 3rd? He's pretty raw and needs a lot of work, solid depth this year NOT even close to a replacement for Smith (who was the 7th pick in the draft for a reason).

Heck if they resign him in the off-season I'm all for it ... I did post this article earlier in the thread, which stated how Smith's goal is to stay with the Niners long-term.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476845/article/aldon-smith-restructures-2015-contract-with-niners

Teams never let top pass rushers leave, it just doesn't happen. That's like Rogers/Brady/Brees all leaving in their prime. Pass rushers are the equivalent of that on defense. Saying Harold is a negotiating piece is like telling Rogers (in his prime) that we drafted a 3rd round QB so you need to take a deal lol.

Any real football fan knows Justin's worth for this squad. He's position isn't supposed to generate big numbers. No doubt he helped Lynch/Brooks/Smith the past couple seasons, man I hope he comes back!

We resigned Bowman, extended Willis and we paid Brooks a ton of money. This team is willing to invest in the LB position. JJ Watt deal is for a DL not a LB. Clay Matthews is the deal we will work from and likely surpass is Aldon is graded out where we think he will be. We can afford to pay him and I see no reason we won't so long as his grade remains high. He is the pass rusher we've longed for more than a decade so we ain't letting him leave. Brooks will before Aldon does and I think we make this happen

totally agree...not sure why JJ watt's deal keeps getting thrown out here. If he continues on the right path and plays like he has, I see a mid-season extension happening

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Harold was judged up and down by a lot of people some had him as a late first others had him as a 3rd....pass rush is one of the most important spots in football and if he does have the best first step in the draft, why did he go in the 3rd? He's pretty raw and needs a lot of work, solid depth this year NOT even close to a replacement for Smith (who was the 7th pick in the draft for a reason).

Heck if they resign him in the off-season I'm all for it ... I did post this article earlier in the thread, which stated how Smith's goal is to stay with the Niners long-term.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476845/article/aldon-smith-restructures-2015-contract-with-niners

Teams never let top pass rushers leave, it just doesn't happen. That's like Rogers/Brady/Brees all leaving in their prime. Pass rushers are the equivalent of that on defense. Saying Harold is a negotiating piece is like telling Rogers (in his prime) that we drafted a 3rd round QB so you need to take a deal lol.

Any real football fan knows Justin's worth for this squad. He's position isn't supposed to generate big numbers. No doubt he helped Lynch/Brooks/Smith the past couple seasons, man I hope he comes back!

Teams do let top pass rushers leave, but your point is taken. You can never count on signing a guy. A lot of people seem to believe it's easy...just give him what he's asking for. That's not the way it works...when you have teams like Miami or Cleveland...or Washington who make incredibly dumb moves every year. It would be easy to see a team outbid the niners for Aldon, forcing the 9ers to decide if they want to franchise him or not.

If I wanted to put pressure on Rodgers I'd pick up a QB in the first or second round...or a third round guy who everyone thought would go earlier. Is it real pressure? Ask Joe Montana--who believed he'd be gone every training camp. These guys aren't sitting back assuming they have a job...most are very insecure...the "not for long" league is a rough place.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Harold was judged up and down by a lot of people some had him as a late first others had him as a 3rd....pass rush is one of the most important spots in football and if he does have the best first step in the draft, why did he go in the 3rd? He's pretty raw and needs a lot of work, solid depth this year NOT even close to a replacement for Smith (who was the 7th pick in the draft for a reason).

Heck if they resign him in the off-season I'm all for it ... I did post this article earlier in the thread, which stated how Smith's goal is to stay with the Niners long-term.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000476845/article/aldon-smith-restructures-2015-contract-with-niners

Teams never let top pass rushers leave, it just doesn't happen. That's like Rogers/Brady/Brees all leaving in their prime. Pass rushers are the equivalent of that on defense. Saying Harold is a negotiating piece is like telling Rogers (in his prime) that we drafted a 3rd round QB so you need to take a deal lol.

Any real football fan knows Justin's worth for this squad. He's position isn't supposed to generate big numbers. No doubt he helped Lynch/Brooks/Smith the past couple seasons, man I hope he comes back!

Teams do let top pass rushers leave, but your point is taken. You can never count on signing a guy. A lot of people seem to believe it's easy...just give him what he's asking for. That's not the way it works...when you have teams like Miami or Cleveland...or Washington who make incredibly dumb moves every year. It would be easy to see a team outbid the niners for Aldon, forcing the 9ers to decide if they want to franchise him or not.

If I wanted to put pressure on Rodgers I'd pick up a QB in the first or second round...or a third round guy who everyone thought would go earlier. Is it real pressure? Ask Joe Montana--who believed he'd be gone every training camp. These guys aren't sitting back assuming they have a job...most are very insecure...the "not for long" league is a rough place.

Throw out some names of top pass rushers that have left in their prime? I haven't seen anything that shows that Aldon even wants to make it to FA. He knows he's gonna get paid here or somewhere else. I'll I've seen/read is he wants to show his worth (based on the restructure) and he wants to sign long-term with SF.

I understand how it works as far as what goes into signing a player. Maybe a player doesn't want to play for Miami or Cleveland. How many players have signed with teams like that then went downhill because there isn't talent around them...two years later they are cut. Players also factor in when a team supports them and that couldn't be more true than what SF has done for this kid.

and yes every play including Montana/Rogers factors in who teams draft and have to stay on their toes....but to throw in a unproven 3rd round pick as a bargaining chp is kinda silly IMO. Players like Lemonier/Brooks are the ones that have to focus more on Harold not Smith.

There is no reason to think Baalke won't try to sign Smith at some point in the season as long as he is on the field. There's mutual interest and players what that guaranteed cash ASAP.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Teams do let top pass rushers leave, but your point is taken. You can never count on signing a guy. A lot of people seem to believe it's easy...just give him what he's asking for. That's not the way it works...when you have teams like Miami or Cleveland...or Washington who make incredibly dumb moves every year. It would be easy to see a team outbid the niners for Aldon, forcing the 9ers to decide if they want to franchise him or not.

If I wanted to put pressure on Rodgers I'd pick up a QB in the first or second round...or a third round guy who everyone thought would go earlier. Is it real pressure? Ask Joe Montana--who believed he'd be gone every training camp. These guys aren't sitting back assuming they have a job...most are very insecure...the "not for long" league is a rough place.

I think TB knows what we have in Aldon. Heck, I am sure of it and we won't let him see FA where we will surely be outbid. That won't happen! That's why more than a year ago we picked up his option. We didn't want Aldon seeing FA this summer so we locked him up for another season. I have full confidence we do what it takes to secure Aldon's services longterm before the 2016 offseason

I guess I'm not as forgiving as most. Aldon has severely tested his team and teammates by his behavior the past couple of years. They simply couldn't count on him. He hasn't had their backs and shouldn't expect the admin. to have his. His play, upon his return, has been subpar (for him) and it remains to be seen whether he's the same guy without Justin Smith alongside him. Lots of question marks going into this season, and he's got a lot to prove before even considering a big money contract. JMO

Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not as forgiving as most. Aldon has severely tested his team and teammates by his behavior the past couple of years. They simply couldn't count on him. He hasn't had their backs and shouldn't expect the admin. to have his. His play, upon his return, has been subpar (for him) and it remains to be seen whether he's the same guy without Justin Smith alongside him. Lots of question marks going into this season, and he's got a lot to prove before even considering a big money contract. JMO

I think the whole thought that aldon cant perform without justin is silly. If that was the case skuta and lemonier would have been in the probowl last year. I agree though his behavior is a huge question mark. Id roll the dice and sign him though cause there isnt many guys who can do what he does. Aldon is not a bad guy, he is just immature.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Throw out some names of top pass rushers that have left in their prime? I haven't seen anything that shows that Aldon even wants to make it to FA. He knows he's gonna get paid here or somewhere else. I'll I've seen/read is he wants to show his worth (based on the restructure) and he wants to sign long-term with SF.

I understand how it works as far as what goes into signing a player. Maybe a player doesn't want to play for Miami or Cleveland. How many players have signed with teams like that then went downhill because there isn't talent around them...two years later they are cut. Players also factor in when a team supports them and that couldn't be more true than what SF has done for this kid.

and yes every play including Montana/Rogers factors in who teams draft and have to stay on their toes....but to throw in a unproven 3rd round pick as a bargaining chp is kinda silly IMO. Players like Lemonier/Brooks are the ones that have to focus more on Harold not Smith.

There is no reason to think Baalke won't try to sign Smith at some point in the season as long as he is on the field. There's mutual interest and players what that guaranteed cash ASAP.

Off the top of my head...Ware, 11th overall pick in 2005.

You are putting too much on the leverage or pressure I'm talking about. If Harold looks good in training camp that will tell Baalke he can let Smith go and sitll have a decent OLB on the right side, along with Lynch and Brooks (if they keep him). He'll use that during negotiations and his history will tell Smith and his agent, "This guy isn't joking, he might just let you go if you are unreasonable."

I've repeatedly said Baalke will try to sign him, but you keep bringing it up as if I'm advocating they cut him...not sure what the problems is. Are you saying they should pay him whatever he asks? Should they outbid a crazed Dan Snyder? If they have to cut half their veterans to balance signing him should they do it? That's what I'm hearing with some posts. Just advocating a voice of reason and reality.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I think TB knows what we have in Aldon. Heck, I am sure of it and we won't let him see FA where we will surely be outbid. That won't happen! That's why more than a year ago we picked up his option. We didn't want Aldon seeing FA this summer so we locked him up for another season. I have full confidence we do what it takes to secure Aldon's services longterm before the 2016 offseason

And that's why I think TB will try and work out a deal this summer before the season starts. During the season they don't need the distractions. If they are close but just have some i's to dot, then maybe they wait till midseason. Just my observation as to how Baalke likes to work.

Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not as forgiving as most. Aldon has severely tested his team and teammates by his behavior the past couple of years. They simply couldn't count on him. He hasn't had their backs and shouldn't expect the admin. to have his. His play, upon his return, has been subpar (for him) and it remains to be seen whether he's the same guy without Justin Smith alongside him. Lots of question marks going into this season, and he's got a lot to prove before even considering a big money contract. JMO

No doubt he was a dummy, but I think he's more than paid his dues. From what I've gathered he basically owed SF money at the end of last season and now he's basically on a week to week deal for this upcoming season.

I wouldn't say he played sub par for only being in 7 games last season...if you watched film he was constantly getting pressure on the QB, sacks aren't the only stats.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Throw out some names of top pass rushers that have left in their prime? I haven't seen anything that shows that Aldon even wants to make it to FA. He knows he's gonna get paid here or somewhere else. I'll I've seen/read is he wants to show his worth (based on the restructure) and he wants to sign long-term with SF.

I understand how it works as far as what goes into signing a player. Maybe a player doesn't want to play for Miami or Cleveland. How many players have signed with teams like that then went downhill because there isn't talent around them...two years later they are cut. Players also factor in when a team supports them and that couldn't be more true than what SF has done for this kid.

and yes every play including Montana/Rogers factors in who teams draft and have to stay on their toes....but to throw in a unproven 3rd round pick as a bargaining chp is kinda silly IMO. Players like Lemonier/Brooks are the ones that have to focus more on Harold not Smith.

There is no reason to think Baalke won't try to sign Smith at some point in the season as long as he is on the field. There's mutual interest and players what that guaranteed cash ASAP.

Off the top of my head...Ware, 11th overall pick in 2005.

You are putting too much on the leverage or pressure I'm talking about. If Harold looks good in training camp that will tell Baalke he can let Smith go and sitll have a decent OLB on the right side, along with Lynch and Brooks (if they keep him). He'll use that during negotiations and his history will tell Smith and his agent, "This guy isn't joking, he might just let you go if you are unreasonable."

I've repeatedly said Baalke will try to sign him, but you keep bringing it up as if I'm advocating they cut him...not sure what the problems is. Are you saying they should pay him whatever he asks? Should they outbid a crazed Dan Snyder? If they have to cut half their veterans to balance signing him should they do it? That's what I'm hearing with some posts. Just advocating a voice of reason and reality.

Ware did not leave in his prime, the year before he left he had 6 sacks i believe. I totally get your point though, if he is asking for 7-8 year 100 mill contract then i may hesitate. But if its in the 60-80 million range then DO IT. 10-15 Million a year is worth it, 15-20 million would make me hesitate and would only do with incentives.

watt(Top 10)

quinn(Top 10)

houston(2nd Round)

hardy(round 6)

Matthews(Late first)

Von Miller(2nd Overall)

dumervil(4th round)

wake(undrafted)

Mario Williams(1st overall)

Aldon(7th overall)


Ware(Top 10)

May have missed a guy, but you get my point most of these guys are high first rounders and very difficult to replace. A few of these guys are on their last legs as well or getting close to it. To expect Harold to replace Aldon is crazy, he is truly in a rare class.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Ware did not leave in his prime, the year before he left he had 6 sacks i believe. I totally get your point though, if he is asking for 7-8 year 100 mill contract then i may hesitate. But if its in the 60-80 million range then DO IT. 10-15 Million a year is worth it, 15-20 million would make me hesitate and would only do with incentives.

Baalke will get a deal done if it is reasonable. If Smith has a chance to cash in with a team like Washington Baalke will likely let him go and put the money elsewhere. Ware had a down year due to being dinged up but he signed a contract that gauranteed him 20 million...with another 10 million he could earn.

I do agree that, after QB, passrushing is usually the key to success.


Edit: Denver has either done a great job with the salary cap or the bill will come due. They have signed some great FAs over the years.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Throw out some names of top pass rushers that have left in their prime? I haven't seen anything that shows that Aldon even wants to make it to FA. He knows he's gonna get paid here or somewhere else. I'll I've seen/read is he wants to show his worth (based on the restructure) and he wants to sign long-term with SF.

I understand how it works as far as what goes into signing a player. Maybe a player doesn't want to play for Miami or Cleveland. How many players have signed with teams like that then went downhill because there isn't talent around them...two years later they are cut. Players also factor in when a team supports them and that couldn't be more true than what SF has done for this kid.

and yes every play including Montana/Rogers factors in who teams draft and have to stay on their toes....but to throw in a unproven 3rd round pick as a bargaining chp is kinda silly IMO. Players like Lemonier/Brooks are the ones that have to focus more on Harold not Smith.

There is no reason to think Baalke won't try to sign Smith at some point in the season as long as he is on the field. There's mutual interest and players what that guaranteed cash ASAP.

Off the top of my head...Ware, 11th overall pick in 2005.

You are putting too much on the leverage or pressure I'm talking about. If Harold looks good in training camp that will tell Baalke he can let Smith go and sitll have a decent OLB on the right side, along with Lynch and Brooks (if they keep him). He'll use that during negotiations and his history will tell Smith and his agent, "This guy isn't joking, he might just let you go if you are unreasonable."

I've repeatedly said Baalke will try to sign him, but you keep bringing it up as if I'm advocating they cut him...not sure what the problems is. Are you saying they should pay him whatever he asks? Should they outbid a crazed Dan Snyder? If they have to cut half their veterans to balance signing him should they do it? That's what I'm hearing with some posts. Just advocating a voice of reason and reality.

Ware left Dallas when he was 31 Smith is 25 big difference...

I never said anything about you thinking he should be cut, not sure where that's coming from. All I'm saying is there has been nothing but mutual interest from both parties to make Smith a Niner for a while. They won't have to cut half their vets to get a deal down....why would you think that? They have $34 million in cap space for 2016 and They could save a extra $7 million but letting Brooks go (which makes sense with Harold).

IF Baalke didn't think Smith was a legit top 5 pass rusher or they had a shot to resign him, you think he would still be on the team right now? I think he would have been sent packing awhile ago.

I'd rather resign Smith over VD and or Boone....pass rush is by far more important and what makes SF's defense go.

FYI probably a reason we didn't resign Cox,Culliver, or Iupati is because they plan on extending Smith...but that's just my two cents.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Throw out some names of top pass rushers that have left in their prime? I haven't seen anything that shows that Aldon even wants to make it to FA. He knows he's gonna get paid here or somewhere else. I'll I've seen/read is he wants to show his worth (based on the restructure) and he wants to sign long-term with SF.

I understand how it works as far as what goes into signing a player. Maybe a player doesn't want to play for Miami or Cleveland. How many players have signed with teams like that then went downhill because there isn't talent around them...two years later they are cut. Players also factor in when a team supports them and that couldn't be more true than what SF has done for this kid.

and yes every play including Montana/Rogers factors in who teams draft and have to stay on their toes....but to throw in a unproven 3rd round pick as a bargaining chp is kinda silly IMO. Players like Lemonier/Brooks are the ones that have to focus more on Harold not Smith.

There is no reason to think Baalke won't try to sign Smith at some point in the season as long as he is on the field. There's mutual interest and players what that guaranteed cash ASAP.

Off the top of my head...Ware, 11th overall pick in 2005.

You are putting too much on the leverage or pressure I'm talking about. If Harold looks good in training camp that will tell Baalke he can let Smith go and sitll have a decent OLB on the right side, along with Lynch and Brooks (if they keep him). He'll use that during negotiations and his history will tell Smith and his agent, "This guy isn't joking, he might just let you go if you are unreasonable."

I've repeatedly said Baalke will try to sign him, but you keep bringing it up as if I'm advocating they cut him...not sure what the problems is. Are you saying they should pay him whatever he asks? Should they outbid a crazed Dan Snyder? If they have to cut half their veterans to balance signing him should they do it? That's what I'm hearing with some posts. Just advocating a voice of reason and reality.

Ware left Dallas when he was 31 Smith is 25 big difference...

I never said anything about you thinking he should be cut, not sure where that's coming from. All I'm saying is there has been nothing but mutual interest from both parties to make Smith a Niner for a while. They won't have to cut half their vets to get a deal down....why would you think that? They have $34 million in cap space for 2016 and They could save a extra $7 million but letting Brooks go (which makes sense with Harold).

IF Baalke didn't think Smith was a legit top 5 pass rusher or they had a shot to resign him, you think he would still be on the team right now? I think he would have been sent packing awhile ago.

I'd rather resign Smith over VD and or Boone....pass rush is by far more important and what makes SF's defense go.

FYI probably a reason we didn't resign Cox,Culliver, or Iupati is because they plan on extending Smith...but that's just my two cents.

I agree with the post 1000% we have the money, he is elite. It just makes way to much sense. VD and boone both play relatively replaceable positions and wont be worth the money.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Ware left Dallas when he was 31 Smith is 25 big difference...

I never said anything about you thinking he should be cut, not sure where that's coming from. All I'm saying is there has been nothing but mutual interest from both parties to make Smith a Niner for a while. They won't have to cut half their vets to get a deal down....why would you think that? They have $34 million in cap space for 2016 and They could save a extra $7 million but letting Brooks go (which makes sense with Harold).

IF Baalke didn't think Smith was a legit top 5 pass rusher or they had a shot to resign him, you think he would still be on the team right now? I think he would have been sent packing awhile ago.

I'd rather resign Smith over VD and or Boone....pass rush is by far more important and what makes SF's defense go.

FYI probably a reason we didn't resign Cox,Culliver, or Iupati is because they plan on extending Smith...but that's just my two cents.

Ware didn't have the baggage that Aldon has, but your point is taken. Once again...it takes two to sign and Baalke isn't going to skew his salary schedule for one guy. Will he try to sign him? Sure.

They didn't sign Cox, Culliver or Iupati because all were over valued. The team felt they had players who could be equally effective for less. Now if the OL looks ever worse next year and they can't run at all...everyone will be bashing Baalke for letting Iupati and Gore go. Just part of the deal with being a GM...everyone thinks they could do it better.

I'll end this here because evidently we both believe Baalke will try to sign Smith and the only disagreement might be about just how reasonable everyone might be in negotiations. I hope you are correct that it's a done deal but I like to let the ink dry.