Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
I think the fact nobody around him improved actually illustrates a very specific point against him. Great QB's make the people around them better. They elevate their play. Brady throws to garbage besides Gronk and puts up good stats and wins games, Everyone Manning has ever thrown too was worse away from him, Even in bad seasons this year for Rogers, James Jones experienced a mini career resurgence just being in his presence and Crabtree is looking pretty dang good playing with Carr.
Now to be clear this doesn't make him a bad QB, but it is a pretty big mark against calling him a great one and unfortunately he wants to be paid like a great one. How this year went brought his salary down enough that he will and should get another year to prove it, but it seems like he is a guy more like Stafford or Dalton that has to have an elite receiver, great protection and a good running game around him to be a winner and without all that he has slowly eroded to the point that this year when we were at our worst he became completely non functional.

Very good post.

Brady throws to Gronk, Edelman, Amendola and previously Welker, in a very good offensive scheme with intelligent play calling. Brady has also had Moss at the height of his career.

At the beginning of last season the Patriots were struggling, as was Brady, and the media was suggesting he retire. The Patriots benched Jordan Devey and changed the line then went on to win the Superbowl. The 49ers played Devey, Martin and Pears during all of Kap's starts this season.

If one of those guys is bad enough to spark talk of Brady retiring (with Pats fans suggesting that he would possibly get Brady killed) how on earth can you claim Kap should do better?? For that matter, if great QB's make the players around them special, how the hell did Brady not make Jordan Devey elite??

This is why I am so exasperated with as segment of the fan base.

I'd rather have Kirk Cousins than Kap.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
I think the fact nobody around him improved actually illustrates a very specific point against him. Great QB's make the people around them better. They elevate their play. Brady throws to garbage besides Gronk and puts up good stats and wins games, Everyone Manning has ever thrown too was worse away from him, Even in bad seasons this year for Rogers, James Jones experienced a mini career resurgence just being in his presence and Crabtree is looking pretty dang good playing with Carr.
Now to be clear this doesn't make him a bad QB, but it is a pretty big mark against calling him a great one and unfortunately he wants to be paid like a great one. How this year went brought his salary down enough that he will and should get another year to prove it, but it seems like he is a guy more like Stafford or Dalton that has to have an elite receiver, great protection and a good running game around him to be a winner and without all that he has slowly eroded to the point that this year when we were at our worst he became completely non functional.

Very good post.

Brady throws to Gronk, Edelman, Amendola and previously Welker, in a very good offensive scheme with intelligent play calling. Brady has also had Moss at the height of his career.

At the beginning of last season the Patriots were struggling, as was Brady, and the media was suggesting he retire. The Patriots benched Jordan Devey and changed the line then went on to win the Superbowl. The 49ers played Devey, Martin and Pears during all of Kap's starts this season.

If one of those guys is bad enough to spark talk of Brady retiring (with Pats fans suggesting that he would possibly get Brady killed) how on earth can you claim Kap should do better?? For that matter, if great QB's make the players around them special, how the hell did Brady not make Jordan Devey elite??

This is why I am so exasperated with as segment of the fan base.

Edelman and Amendola would do next to nothing away from Brady, and one of them has...Welker went straight to Peyton and then out of the league. I sighted Gronk as obviously he is a difference maker and would be good anywhere. The year people questioned Brady retiring, he still managed to win games... and after the sat Devey he did even better. Look I am not saying a QB can fix everything...but in all these seasons NOONE has looked better than they were before playing with Kap and none of them have looks dramatically worse after leaving, one recently has looked much better in fact... Seriously you are why we are all so exasperated...In your world anybody who says he anything but he is the best QB ever to play and should already be in Canton is a hater. Being average is OK...it just isn't ok if your contract inflates to where we cant put superior talent around you. Right now he is cheap enough for next year and he gets another chance to prove he is worth the money. His contract is doing exactly what it is designed to.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Your wrong in that he is only getting paid less because we smartly structured a contract that saved our ass after the season he had for starters...You are also wrong in that there are hordes of people here who have defended him being elite until they were blue in the face and hurl insults at anyone who doesn't buy that line or thinks that he is merely good or ok. You are wrong in that you pick out elite players that would succeed anywhere and say that QB's don't help all the others around them. I sighted players who have looked better since leaving and you even added one yourself, I showed examples of specific guys who were made better by playing with elite QB's....can you name me one who looked better after coming here? Cause I can name a ton more for all the other guys I listed.

Seriously him being merely good and a guy who needs help isn't the end of the world here people...it just might mean we over pay for him some years when his deal hits escalators on the backs of some of the talent around him. I would still take him over a whole lot of other guys in the league.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Your wrong in that he is only getting paid less because we smartly structured a contract that saved our ass after the season he had for starters...You are also wrong in that there are hordes of people here who have defended him being elite until they were blue in the face and hurl insults at anyone who doesn't buy that line or thinks that he is merely good or ok. You are wrong in that you pick out elite players that would succeed anywhere and say that QB's don't help all the others around them. I sighted players who have looked better since leaving and you even added one yourself, I showed examples of specific guys who were made better by playing with elite QB's....can you name me one who looked better after coming here? Cause I can name a ton more for all the other guys I listed.

Seriously him being merely good and a guy who needs help isn't the end of the world here people...it just might mean we over pay for him some years when his deal hits escalators on the backs of some of the talent around him. I would still take him over a whole lot of other guys in the league.

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.


You cited one person that has "looked better" crabtree. Just looked at his stats and he actually didn't do as well as I thought. His best year is still with Kap. So your point doesnt even have any merit. The one person I cited to have gone off and done better only had half a season to play with Kap and went from being the #2 TE to the #1. It's not like he was going to take Vernons spot and Vernon did great the next year after Delanie left. Who knows what he could have been with Kap.

I'm not even going to address the rest because you clearly didn't understand my message.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Your wrong in that he is only getting paid less because we smartly structured a contract that saved our ass after the season he had for starters...You are also wrong in that there are hordes of people here who have defended him being elite until they were blue in the face and hurl insults at anyone who doesn't buy that line or thinks that he is merely good or ok. You are wrong in that you pick out elite players that would succeed anywhere and say that QB's don't help all the others around them. I sighted players who have looked better since leaving and you even added one yourself, I showed examples of specific guys who were made better by playing with elite QB's....can you name me one who looked better after coming here? Cause I can name a ton more for all the other guys I listed.

Seriously him being merely good and a guy who needs help isn't the end of the world here people...it just might mean we over pay for him some years when his deal hits escalators on the backs of some of the talent around him. I would still take him over a whole lot of other guys in the league.

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.


You cited one person that has "looked better" crabtree. Just looked at his stats and he actually didn't do as well as I thought. His best year is still with Kap. So your point doesnt even have any merit. The one person I cited to have gone off and done better only had half a season to play with Kap and went from being the #2 TE to the #1. It's not like he was going to take Vernons spot and Vernon did great the next year after Delanie left. Who knows what he could have been with Kap.

I'm not even going to address the rest because you clearly didn't understand my message.

I addressed every point you brought up rather than reply with a pithy one sentence reply...but I digress.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Your wrong in that he is only getting paid less because we smartly structured a contract that saved our ass after the season he had for starters...You are also wrong in that there are hordes of people here who have defended him being elite until they were blue in the face and hurl insults at anyone who doesn't buy that line or thinks that he is merely good or ok. You are wrong in that you pick out elite players that would succeed anywhere and say that QB's don't help all the others around them. I sighted players who have looked better since leaving and you even added one yourself, I showed examples of specific guys who were made better by playing with elite QB's....can you name me one who looked better after coming here? Cause I can name a ton more for all the other guys I listed.

Seriously him being merely good and a guy who needs help isn't the end of the world here people...it just might mean we over pay for him some years when his deal hits escalators on the backs of some of the talent around him. I would still take him over a whole lot of other guys in the league.

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.


You cited one person that has "looked better" crabtree. Just looked at his stats and he actually didn't do as well as I thought. His best year is still with Kap. So your point doesnt even have any merit. The one person I cited to have gone off and done better only had half a season to play with Kap and went from being the #2 TE to the #1. It's not like he was going to take Vernons spot and Vernon did great the next year after Delanie left. Who knows what he could have been with Kap.

I'm not even going to address the rest because you clearly didn't understand my message.

I addressed every point you brought up rather than reply with a pithy one sentence reply...but I digress.

So are you going to tell me who besides Delanie (who left to become a #1 TE after half a season with Kap) has gone off to another team and became better?

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

I think the fact nobody around him improved actually illustrates a very specific point against him. Great QB's make the people around them better. They elevate their play. Brady throws to garbage besides Gronk and puts up good stats and wins games, Everyone Manning has ever thrown too was worse away from him, Even in bad seasons this year for Rogers, James Jones experienced a mini career resurgence just being in his presence and Crabtree is looking pretty dang good playing with Carr.
Now to be clear this doesn't make him a bad QB, but it is a pretty big mark against calling him a great one and unfortunately he wants to be paid like a great one. How this year went brought his salary down enough that he will and should get another year to prove it, but it seems like he is a guy more like Stafford or Dalton that has to have an elite receiver, great protection and a good running game around him to be a winner and without all that he has slowly eroded to the point that this year when we were at our worst he became completely non functional.

Very good post.

Brady throws to Gronk, Edelman, Amendola and previously Welker, in a very good offensive scheme with intelligent play calling. Brady has also had Moss at the height of his career.

At the beginning of last season the Patriots were struggling, as was Brady, and the media was suggesting he retire. The Patriots benched Jordan Devey and changed the line then went on to win the Superbowl. The 49ers played Devey, Martin and Pears during all of Kap's starts this season.

If one of those guys is bad enough to spark talk of Brady retiring (with Pats fans suggesting that he would possibly get Brady killed) how on earth can you claim Kap should do better?? For that matter, if great QB's make the players around them special, how the hell did Brady not make Jordan Devey elite??

This is why I am so exasperated with as segment of the fan base.

You take little periods of time when their team struggles and use it as some type of fact. The point remains over time Brady makes nobody's look like super stars.

And why talk only about Brady to prove a point when there was numerous other qbs mentioned. What about James jones? Got cut from NYG, Green Bay picks him up, hes now dam near their go to guy.

Ted ginn on our team? Jack sh*t. Cam newton throws to him he's throwing up 10td plus this year.

The point remains, good quarterbacks make the wide receiver in most cases

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

You take little periods of time when their team struggles and use it as some type of fact. The point remains over time Brady makes nobody's look like super stars.

And why talk only about Brady to prove a point when there was numerous other qbs mentioned. What about James jones? Got cut from NYG, Green Bay picks him up, hes now dam near their go to guy.

Ted ginn on our team? Jack sh*t. Cam newton throws to him he's throwing up 10td plus this year.

The point remains, good quarterbacks make the wide receiver in most cases

Ginn is a terrible example. He only had half a season with Kap. A season where he was playing behind Crabtree who was having a career year, Manningham, and Moss. He then went on to put up 556 yards and then 190 before having a career year this year. A year in which he became the #1 receiver by default due to injuries and still hit less then 800 yards.

So if you're trying to imply that Ginn has been a good receiver but was hindered by Kap then you're completely utterly wrong.

And why are we comparing Kap to Brady? Kap is not elite nor is he getting paid like he is.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Dsoto87:
18th highest salary next year is being paid like a great one?

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.

Yes I did but didn't feel the need to respond to the rest. I'm at work so I can't be writing up these lengthy posts.

Crabtree looks good with Carr just as he looked good with 2012 Kap. What's the difference between the years in between? The fact the he is/was healthy. 2013 when coming back early after injury he still looked pretty good with Kap. Boldin put up more yards in the 2012 and 2013 season then he has since 2006. Is that not elevating play? 2013 Vernon put up his 3rd highest career yardage and caught enough TDs to tie his career high.

I can only think of one pass catcher that has gone off to do better and that's Delanie Walker. Who else has gotten better since leaving the niners?

You're the only one in the past few pages to have mentioned him being "great". I certainly don't believe he's at that level and I think most would agree. So when you say he wants to be paid like a great one, and I respond with, he's actually getting paid way less... Where was I wrong?

And your post about needing an elite receiver and good line applies to those same great QBs you mentioned. Does Brady not have an elite pass catcher in Gronk? How is Aaron looking this year? Not like the Aaron of previous. You're way overstating how much elite QBs can overcome.

With that said who else is out there, that we can actually get, that will give us a better chance at winning next year?

Your wrong in that he is only getting paid less because we smartly structured a contract that saved our ass after the season he had for starters...You are also wrong in that there are hordes of people here who have defended him being elite until they were blue in the face and hurl insults at anyone who doesn't buy that line or thinks that he is merely good or ok. You are wrong in that you pick out elite players that would succeed anywhere and say that QB's don't help all the others around them. I sighted players who have looked better since leaving and you even added one yourself, I showed examples of specific guys who were made better by playing with elite QB's....can you name me one who looked better after coming here? Cause I can name a ton more for all the other guys I listed.

Seriously him being merely good and a guy who needs help isn't the end of the world here people...it just might mean we over pay for him some years when his deal hits escalators on the backs of some of the talent around him. I would still take him over a whole lot of other guys in the league.

Did you read the post? Because this response really doesn't seem like you did.


You cited one person that has "looked better" crabtree. Just looked at his stats and he actually didn't do as well as I thought. His best year is still with Kap. So your point doesnt even have any merit. The one person I cited to have gone off and done better only had half a season to play with Kap and went from being the #2 TE to the #1. It's not like he was going to take Vernons spot and Vernon did great the next year after Delanie left. Who knows what he could have been with Kap.

I'm not even going to address the rest because you clearly didn't understand my message.

I addressed every point you brought up rather than reply with a pithy one sentence reply...but I digress.

So are you going to tell me who besides Delanie (who left to become a #1 TE after half a season with Kap) has gone off to another team and became better?

The point is that there were at least few that left and either had a resurgence (Crabtree) or improved (Delanie) or held their own (Gore, Iupati) and more importantly nobody came here from elsewhere and got better on the offensive side of the ball, some even got much worse and even more importantly than that...there are cases all over the league like Sunday mentioned above where guys getting better happens on the regular.

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by SundayTicket:
You take little periods of time when their team struggles and use it as some type of fact. The point remains over time Brady makes nobody's look like super stars.

And why talk only about Brady to prove a point when there was numerous other qbs mentioned. What about James jones? Got cut from NYG, Green Bay picks him up, hes now dam near their go to guy.

Ted ginn on our team? Jack sh*t. Cam newton throws to him he's throwing up 10td plus this year.

The point remains, good quarterbacks make the wide receiver in most cases

Ginn is a terrible example. He only had half a season with Kap. A season where he was playing behind Crabtree who was having a career year, Manningham, and Moss. He then went on to put up 556 yards and then 190 before having a career year this year. A year in which he became the #1 receiver by default due to injuries and still hit less then 800 yards.

So if you're trying to imply that Ginn has been a good receiver but was hindered by Kap then you're completely utterly wrong.

And why are we comparing Kap to Brady? Kap is not elite nor is he getting paid like he is.

He is implying that Cam is capable of making a guy like Ginn look like a good receiver for a period of time....a skill you very much want the guy who leads your entire team to have if you can get it. It is honestly what separates the men from the boys at the QB position, and I hope Kap gets there but right now he has never really turned that corner save for that playoff run in his first full season and I don't really feel comfortable making the guy a cornerstone of your franchise without at least flashes of that sort of ability. It is fine if you want to build around hard nose defense and a stellar run game...but if you want to be an aerial show, we need better.

Hey D., or anyone for that matter. Take other players out of the equation and name me 2 areas in which Kaep has improved the last two seasons. Statistically he has regressed in every category.

I'm not asking for reasons like oline, wrs, or coaching I'm asking about Kaep and only Kaep. What has he personally done that has made him a better QB than he was during our playoff run?

Not saying there isn't any, but as far as statistics,(YPG, comp%, rating, tds/int ratio, wins, sacks taken, avg per attempt) he has regressed. That's just statistics though. Outside of regressing statistically every season, what areas has he IMPROVED upon?

Originally posted by Dsoto87:

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

You take little periods of time when their team struggles and use it as some type of fact. The point remains over time Brady makes nobody's look like super stars.

And why talk only about Brady to prove a point when there was numerous other qbs mentioned. What about James jones? Got cut from NYG, Green Bay picks him up, hes now dam near their go to guy.

Ted ginn on our team? Jack sh*t. Cam newton throws to him he's throwing up 10td plus this year.

The point remains, good quarterbacks make the wide receiver in most cases

Ginn is a terrible example. He only had half a season with Kap. A season where he was playing behind Crabtree who was having a career year, Manningham, and Moss. He then went on to put up 556 yards and then 190 before having a career year this year. A year in which he became the #1 receiver by default due to injuries and still hit less then 800 yards.

So if you're trying to imply that Ginn has been a good receiver but was hindered by Kap then you're completely utterly wrong.

And why are we comparing Kap to Brady? Kap is not elite nor is he getting paid like he is.

Coulda woulda shoulda. This is the bull sh*t I'm talking about. Your making up well if this didnt happen he woulda done this etc, but if anyone does that about your boy kap but talking negatively about him you go a-wall and freak out saying the same sh*t I'm saying. Being a hypocrite is contagious in this thread. I'm 100%real about any quarterback that is quarterbacking my favorite team.

Lets stick to the facts and not well If he had this OC or this guy instead or if he woulda had this instead. It's getting played out