Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by jedediahyork:
Huh. Same can be said about Kap. What a surprise.

Really? Was our defense playing at a top 5 level during the playoff run that Kap carried us to the SB?

so for 3 games they didnt play at a top 5 level....out of how many since he's started?

Refer to one of my earlier posts. In the last 6 games (including last 3 regular season games and 3 play-off wins) the defense allowed 28.5 points per game. In the 7 regular season games only they conceded an average of 20 points per game (this includes the last 3 from the Pats to end of regular season).

For the first 4 games of Kap as starter the defence was conceding an average of 14.25 points per game. In the play-offs they conceded 27.33 points per game.

So once Justin and Aldon got injured vs the Pats, there was a real drop off on the defensive side which got worse during the play-offs by circa 13ppg - almost two TDs a game differential.

You do realize that harbs and co ran the D ragged with no substitutions right? After months of going non stop they will start to break down. That's not a hit on anybody but Harbs, a point many fail to remember.

Yes I do, I don't fault the defense at all they were one of the best we had, but they were beat up and injured. Had Harbs rotated players more in that season, especially in some of our blow out wins, I think we'd have won the Superbowl simply because Justin and Aldon would have been less likely to get injured.

Edit: but that is not the argument presented, the argument made by his detractors is that Kap was carried by the defense or that Alex or Blaine could have been QB and gone to the Superbowl. I just looked at the numbers to demonstrate that is not correct; that based on the offense's average points per game while Alex was QB compared against the defence was conceding, it is unlikely that our offense would have scored enough points to beat the Packers or the Falcons.

what a surprise alex is being brought up aboust something 5 years ago when he makes the playoffs and were picking in the top 10

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by jreff22:
The D held on enough. Without that ST TD we have enough points to win.

And an LMJ fumble in the redzone on top of that was a killer. So, I'm unsure what the criticism of Kaep was in that SB. It's silly and everyone I watched that game with marvelled at how well Kaep played and talked about our D and the refs letting us down.

I don't have a problem with the SB aside from locking onto Crabs and forcing the ball. Its the regular season failures that bother me. You cant get to the post season if you cant win the regular season.

and one more thing

Originally posted by harryj:
what a surprise alex is being brought up aboust something 5 years ago when he makes the playoffs and were picking in the top 10

id also like to add

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by mojave45:
I get that people are either in Kaeps corner or not. I look at his play and it keeps going down hill. Some on here keep making excuses for that, but he hasn't gotten better, he has gotten worse. Yes he has shown he can have a couple of flashes of stellar moments, but the body of his work indicates that those were the exception rather than the rule. There are some who don't like him for his off field persona. I, personally, wouldn't care if he was secretly working as hit man for a drug cartel, as long he didn't get caught and get the team in trouble. I only care about how he is playing now, and how he has played consistently over the course of his time here.

There are times in every athletes career when thinks just aren't working for them. There are times in every organization where a particular athlete is not put into the position to maximize their potential, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that he isn't gong to get better here.

He hasn't shown the ability to bring his game up, even though some say there is potential for that. His numbers went down three years straight under Harbaugh. He struggled mightily this year. Next year will bring another system into place. He hasn't shown that he has the ability to master a system he has been in for years now, let alone go into a new system and learn it in one off season . The money save on his cap hit if we let him go is not insignificant, but not as inflated as some are posting, and that money could be better spent somewhere else. A new HC is probably going to draft a new QB. Gabbert isn't our long term answer, but neither is Kaepernick.

Time to let it go.

I have a question for you. Who on offense since Kaep got there improved? Name a player.

Has Kaep had a #1 receiver in his career, ever? Has he ever played in a decent passing offense? Has he ever played in an offense that maximized his strengths? Cam has, Wilson has, why not Kaep?

As far as mastering a system. What system are you talking about? What was Harbaugh and Roman's system? He seemed to have done quite well in it when he needed to. The numbers were hardly gaudy because he played under a massively conservative coach who would just run the ball even in blowouts. Not to mention the mess of having plays called by 3 different people. Criticism of Kaep is fair, but I feel context very often never figures into it.

"He got worse every year". Everything around him got worse. Or was the expectation that he would get better with no #1 receiver, aging RB, TE that can't catch and will likely be out of football next year, and Boldin whom he made a 1000 yard receiver...still not a #1.

Compare that to all of his peers. What do they have? Stafford, Cutler, Tannehill, Ryan, Dalton all with superior pieces around them while playing mediocre football. Btu hey LOOK like QBs, though .

Why do you always deflect a comment with Kaepernck like this? I don't care who else improved or didn't. This is the Kaepernick thread. And the rest is your usual rehashed, irrelevant garbage about the cast around him while ignoring that everyone on the team is judged individually. Or you whine about what other QB's have or haven't done.

And I never said a word about how he looks. other than to say it DIDN'T matter to me.

Your "context" is nothing but a thinly veiled belief that no one else on this board has a decent opinion on this guy. That veil was lifted long ago. I get it, you like him. Everyone else with a different opinion is wrong. Fine. But the rest is just pure nonsense.

His play isn't an opinion. it is a fact. Now you can go out and post all kinds of irrelevant junk about it, but his play this year wasn't good, he has never had an overall great season, his play at best has come in flashes. And every year his numbers go downhill. Those are facts. The rest is just...nothing.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by jreff22:
The D held on enough. Without that ST TD we have enough points to win.

And an LMJ fumble in the redzone on top of that was a killer. So, I'm unsure what the criticism of Kaep was in that SB. It's silly and everyone I watched that game with marvelled at how well Kaep played and talked about our D and the refs letting us down.

I don't have a problem with the SB aside from locking onto Crabs and forcing the ball. Its the regular season failures that bother me. You cant get to the post season if you cant win the regular season.

This is where things get interesting if you are objective. Blindfury made an absolutely excellent post asking people to nominate players who did improve in 2013 and 2014. The sad fact is that none of the team did, the team got steadily worse. Roman and Harbaugh were abysmal and predictable in play calling, we were predictable and dared defenses to stop the play. They started doing that.

We invested nothing in our WR corps, we let Moss and Manningham (injured) go in 2013 and signed Boldin (but had no Crab due to injury in 2013), we let our TE corps get weaker by allowing Walker to leave and replacing him with Vance. Vernon spent half the season injured with his back and we were running on 1st and 2nd down nearly every time. We didn't look to improve our OLine and we didn't bring in a veteran QB that could assist Kap in the manner Alex had.

In 2014 we signed Lloyd and Stevie Johnston then used Stevie sparingly despite him excelling. We had Marcus and Jonathan Martin on the OLine and continued running Frank into the ground without really using Hyde.

Every year since Kap has started the talent on offense around him has diminished remarkably, as has the coaching and scheme, and yet everyone is quick to forget what he has achieved in the past because he sucked behind the worst OLine I have ever seen in football while being made to play in the worst offensive scheme and play calling I have seen in 30 year of watching Niners football.

Meanwhile those same posters want to hail Gabbert as the messiah while blithely ignoring the same flaws in him that they pilloried Kap for (missing reads, not seeing the field, getting spooked in the pocket). The only reason Gabbert has looked better is because he's perfectly happy to throw a checkdown short of the 1st down marker and then punt. At least you could watch Kap and know he was trying to win the game.

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by mojave45:
I get that people are either in Kaeps corner or not. I look at his play and it keeps going down hill. Some on here keep making excuses for that, but he hasn't gotten better, he has gotten worse. Yes he has shown he can have a couple of flashes of stellar moments, but the body of his work indicates that those were the exception rather than the rule. There are some who don't like him for his off field persona. I, personally, wouldn't care if he was secretly working as hit man for a drug cartel, as long he didn't get caught and get the team in trouble. I only care about how he is playing now, and how he has played consistently over the course of his time here.

There are times in every athletes career when thinks just aren't working for them. There are times in every organization where a particular athlete is not put into the position to maximize their potential, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that he isn't gong to get better here.

He hasn't shown the ability to bring his game up, even though some say there is potential for that. His numbers went down three years straight under Harbaugh. He struggled mightily this year. Next year will bring another system into place. He hasn't shown that he has the ability to master a system he has been in for years now, let alone go into a new system and learn it in one off season . The money save on his cap hit if we let him go is not insignificant, but not as inflated as some are posting, and that money could be better spent somewhere else. A new HC is probably going to draft a new QB. Gabbert isn't our long term answer, but neither is Kaepernick.

Time to let it go.

I have a question for you. Who on offense since Kaep got there improved? Name a player.

Has Kaep had a #1 receiver in his career, ever? Has he ever played in a decent passing offense? Has he ever played in an offense that maximized his strengths? Cam has, Wilson has, why not Kaep?

As far as mastering a system. What system are you talking about? What was Harbaugh and Roman's system? He seemed to have done quite well in it when he needed to. The numbers were hardly gaudy because he played under a massively conservative coach who would just run the ball even in blowouts. Not to mention the mess of having plays called by 3 different people. Criticism of Kaep is fair, but I feel context very often never figures into it.

"He got worse every year". Everything around him got worse. Or was the expectation that he would get better with no #1 receiver, aging RB, TE that can't catch and will likely be out of football next year, and Boldin whom he made a 1000 yard receiver...still not a #1.

Compare that to all of his peers. What do they have? Stafford, Cutler, Tannehill, Ryan, Dalton all with superior pieces around them while playing mediocre football. Btu hey LOOK like QBs, though .

Why do you always deflect a comment with Kaepernck like this? I don't care who else improved or didn't. This is the Kaepernick thread. And the rest is your usual rehashed, irrelevant garbage about the cast around him while ignoring that everyone on the team is judged individually. Or you whine about what other QB's have or haven't done.

And I never said a word about how he looks. other than to say it DIDN'T matter to me.

Your "context" is nothing but a thinly veiled belief that no one else on this board has a decent opinion on this guy. That veil was lifted long ago. I get it, you like him. Everyone else with a different opinion is wrong. Fine. But the rest is just pure nonsense.

His play isn't an opinion. it is a fact. Now you can go out and post all kinds of irrelevant junk about it, but his play this year wasn't good, he has never had an overall great season, his play at best has come in flashes. And every year his numbers go downhill. Those are facts. The rest is just...nothing.

You have no concept of context.

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by jreff22:
The D held on enough. Without that ST TD we have enough points to win.

And an LMJ fumble in the redzone on top of that was a killer. So, I'm unsure what the criticism of Kaep was in that SB. It's silly and everyone I watched that game with marvelled at how well Kaep played and talked about our D and the refs letting us down.

I don't have a problem with the SB aside from locking onto Crabs and forcing the ball. Its the regular season failures that bother me. You cant get to the post season if you cant win the regular season.

This is where things get interesting if you are objective. Blindfury made an absolutely excellent post asking people to nominate players who did improve in 2013 and 2014. The sad fact is that none of the team did, the team got steadily worse. Roman and Harbaugh were abysmal and predictable in play calling, we were predictable and dared defenses to stop the play. They started doing that.

We invested nothing in our WR corps, we let Moss and Manningham (injured) go in 2013 and signed Boldin (but had no Crab due to injury in 2013), we let our TE corps get weaker by allowing Walker to leave and replacing him with Vance. Vernon spent half the season injured with his back and we were running on 1st and 2nd down nearly every time. We didn't look to improve our OLine and we didn't bring in a veteran QB that could assist Kap in the manner Alex had.

In 2014 we signed Lloyd and Stevie Johnston then used Stevie sparingly despite him excelling. We had Marcus and Jonathan Martin on the OLine and continued running Frank into the ground without really using Hyde.

Every year since Kap has started the talent on offense around him has diminished remarkably, as has the coaching and scheme, and yet everyone is quick to forget what he has achieved in the past because he sucked behind the worst OLine I have ever seen in football while being made to play in the worst offensive scheme and play calling I have seen in 30 year of watching Niners football.

Meanwhile those same posters want to hail Gabbert as the messiah while blithely ignoring the same flaws in him that they pilloried Kap for (missing reads, not seeing the field, getting spooked in the pocket). The only reason Gabbert has looked better is because he's perfectly happy to throw a checkdown short of the 1st down marker and then punt. At least you could watch Kap and know he was trying to win the game.

For me, Kap's improvements on things needed to be a consistent QB are the same now that they were when he was drafted. He may have improved slightly in mechanics and fundamentals but it hasn't been enough. Any coach of Kap will need to start over with him and simplify the offense as he learns to be fundamentally sound.

Another key aspect that may not be able to be improved at all is his lack of pocket awareness. This intangible has always been his flaw.

I'm sure a coach can have success with him in an offense that focuses heavy on running the ball, misdirection, and Kap's legs...but as we found out...that method quickly gets figured out.

blindfury has a good point

no one on this team improves with kaep as qb

they only improve when kaep is removed from being qb or they leave to a different team

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by mojave45:
I get that people are either in Kaeps corner or not. I look at his play and it keeps going down hill. Some on here keep making excuses for that, but he hasn't gotten better, he has gotten worse. Yes he has shown he can have a couple of flashes of stellar moments, but the body of his work indicates that those were the exception rather than the rule. There are some who don't like him for his off field persona. I, personally, wouldn't care if he was secretly working as hit man for a drug cartel, as long he didn't get caught and get the team in trouble. I only care about how he is playing now, and how he has played consistently over the course of his time here.

There are times in every athletes career when thinks just aren't working for them. There are times in every organization where a particular athlete is not put into the position to maximize their potential, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that he isn't gong to get better here.

He hasn't shown the ability to bring his game up, even though some say there is potential for that. His numbers went down three years straight under Harbaugh. He struggled mightily this year. Next year will bring another system into place. He hasn't shown that he has the ability to master a system he has been in for years now, let alone go into a new system and learn it in one off season . The money save on his cap hit if we let him go is not insignificant, but not as inflated as some are posting, and that money could be better spent somewhere else. A new HC is probably going to draft a new QB. Gabbert isn't our long term answer, but neither is Kaepernick.

Time to let it go.

I have a question for you. Who on offense since Kaep got there improved? Name a player.

Has Kaep had a #1 receiver in his career, ever? Has he ever played in a decent passing offense? Has he ever played in an offense that maximized his strengths? Cam has, Wilson has, why not Kaep?

As far as mastering a system. What system are you talking about? What was Harbaugh and Roman's system? He seemed to have done quite well in it when he needed to. The numbers were hardly gaudy because he played under a massively conservative coach who would just run the ball even in blowouts. Not to mention the mess of having plays called by 3 different people. Criticism of Kaep is fair, but I feel context very often never figures into it.

"He got worse every year". Everything around him got worse. Or was the expectation that he would get better with no #1 receiver, aging RB, TE that can't catch and will likely be out of football next year, and Boldin whom he made a 1000 yard receiver...still not a #1.

Compare that to all of his peers. What do they have? Stafford, Cutler, Tannehill, Ryan, Dalton all with superior pieces around them while playing mediocre football. Btu hey LOOK like QBs, though .

Why do you always deflect a comment with Kaepernck like this? I don't care who else improved or didn't. This is the Kaepernick thread. And the rest is your usual rehashed, irrelevant garbage about the cast around him while ignoring that everyone on the team is judged individually. Or you whine about what other QB's have or haven't done.

And I never said a word about how he looks. other than to say it DIDN'T matter to me.

Your "context" is nothing but a thinly veiled belief that no one else on this board has a decent opinion on this guy. That veil was lifted long ago. I get it, you like him. Everyone else with a different opinion is wrong. Fine. But the rest is just pure nonsense.

His play isn't an opinion. it is a fact. Now you can go out and post all kinds of irrelevant junk about it, but his play this year wasn't good, he has never had an overall great season, his play at best has come in flashes. And every year his numbers go downhill. Those are facts. The rest is just...nothing.

You have no concept of context.

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by jreff22:
The D held on enough. Without that ST TD we have enough points to win.

And an LMJ fumble in the redzone on top of that was a killer. So, I'm unsure what the criticism of Kaep was in that SB. It's silly and everyone I watched that game with marvelled at how well Kaep played and talked about our D and the refs letting us down.

I don't have a problem with the SB aside from locking onto Crabs and forcing the ball. Its the regular season failures that bother me. You cant get to the post season if you cant win the regular season.

This is where things get interesting if you are objective. Blindfury made an absolutely excellent post asking people to nominate players who did improve in 2013 and 2014. The sad fact is that none of the team did, the team got steadily worse. Roman and Harbaugh were abysmal and predictable in play calling, we were predictable and dared defenses to stop the play. They started doing that.

We invested nothing in our WR corps, we let Moss and Manningham (injured) go in 2013 and signed Boldin (but had no Crab due to injury in 2013), we let our TE corps get weaker by allowing Walker to leave and replacing him with Vance. Vernon spent half the season injured with his back and we were running on 1st and 2nd down nearly every time. We didn't look to improve our OLine and we didn't bring in a veteran QB that could assist Kap in the manner Alex had.

In 2014 we signed Lloyd and Stevie Johnston then used Stevie sparingly despite him excelling. We had Marcus and Jonathan Martin on the OLine and continued running Frank into the ground without really using Hyde.

Every year since Kap has started the talent on offense around him has diminished remarkably, as has the coaching and scheme, and yet everyone is quick to forget what he has achieved in the past because he sucked behind the worst OLine I have ever seen in football while being made to play in the worst offensive scheme and play calling I have seen in 30 year of watching Niners football.

Meanwhile those same posters want to hail Gabbert as the messiah while blithely ignoring the same flaws in him that they pilloried Kap for (missing reads, not seeing the field, getting spooked in the pocket). The only reason Gabbert has looked better is because he's perfectly happy to throw a checkdown short of the 1st down marker and then punt. At least you could watch Kap and know he was trying to win the game.

Actually Tannehill has been playing behind a crappier OL.

This is the thing with Gabbert, just to get it out of the way. He will scan the field more. He will throw to a RB. He wont launch a ball at 200Mph at a player 8 yards away. He isn't taking a bunch of stupid sacks. He's not locking onto 1 guy and forcing the issue. And he's a much cheaper option.

If we are staying objective here...

He's played with the backups to the backups at RB. Never had a chance to work with VD. Is starting for the first time in a long time. Playing in a new-ish system. So I don't expect him to be launching balls all over the place. I don't have a problem with check-downs, didn't have a problem when Alex did it either. Many of those passes the WR/TE was just a yard or two short of the sticks...that's not a QB error IMO. Additionally how many of the other WR's were open? We all know the lack of talent and the stupid play-calling. If its a sack or throw away (Kap) or a dump off (Gabbert) I will take the dump off and hope the WR/TE/RB can shake a tackle.

He played equal if not better compared to Kap, makes less cash, didn't have any real run support, and is just getting back into playing. For all of that, I think he did well considering the situation. For a spot player/backup/bridge QB at his salary...yes it makes sense and I prefer that.

Originally posted by harryj:
blindfury has a good point

no one on this team improves with kaep as qb

they only improve when kaep is removed from being qb or they leave to a different team

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by mojave45:
I get that people are either in Kaeps corner or not. I look at his play and it keeps going down hill. Some on here keep making excuses for that, but he hasn't gotten better, he has gotten worse. Yes he has shown he can have a couple of flashes of stellar moments, but the body of his work indicates that those were the exception rather than the rule. There are some who don't like him for his off field persona. I, personally, wouldn't care if he was secretly working as hit man for a drug cartel, as long he didn't get caught and get the team in trouble. I only care about how he is playing now, and how he has played consistently over the course of his time here.

There are times in every athletes career when thinks just aren't working for them. There are times in every organization where a particular athlete is not put into the position to maximize their potential, for whatever reason. My personal belief is that he isn't gong to get better here.

He hasn't shown the ability to bring his game up, even though some say there is potential for that. His numbers went down three years straight under Harbaugh. He struggled mightily this year. Next year will bring another system into place. He hasn't shown that he has the ability to master a system he has been in for years now, let alone go into a new system and learn it in one off season . The money save on his cap hit if we let him go is not insignificant, but not as inflated as some are posting, and that money could be better spent somewhere else. A new HC is probably going to draft a new QB. Gabbert isn't our long term answer, but neither is Kaepernick.

Time to let it go.

I have a question for you. Who on offense since Kaep got there improved? Name a player.

Has Kaep had a #1 receiver in his career, ever? Has he ever played in a decent passing offense? Has he ever played in an offense that maximized his strengths? Cam has, Wilson has, why not Kaep?

As far as mastering a system. What system are you talking about? What was Harbaugh and Roman's system? He seemed to have done quite well in it when he needed to. The numbers were hardly gaudy because he played under a massively conservative coach who would just run the ball even in blowouts. Not to mention the mess of having plays called by 3 different people. Criticism of Kaep is fair, but I feel context very often never figures into it.

"He got worse every year". Everything around him got worse. Or was the expectation that he would get better with no #1 receiver, aging RB, TE that can't catch and will likely be out of football next year, and Boldin whom he made a 1000 yard receiver...still not a #1.

Compare that to all of his peers. What do they have? Stafford, Cutler, Tannehill, Ryan, Dalton all with superior pieces around them while playing mediocre football. Btu hey LOOK like QBs, though .

Why do you always deflect a comment with Kaepernck like this? I don't care who else improved or didn't. This is the Kaepernick thread. And the rest is your usual rehashed, irrelevant garbage about the cast around him while ignoring that everyone on the team is judged individually. Or you whine about what other QB's have or haven't done.

And I never said a word about how he looks. other than to say it DIDN'T matter to me.

Your "context" is nothing but a thinly veiled belief that no one else on this board has a decent opinion on this guy. That veil was lifted long ago. I get it, you like him. Everyone else with a different opinion is wrong. Fine. But the rest is just pure nonsense.

His play isn't an opinion. it is a fact. Now you can go out and post all kinds of irrelevant junk about it, but his play this year wasn't good, he has never had an overall great season, his play at best has come in flashes. And every year his numbers go downhill. Those are facts. The rest is just...nothing.

You have no concept of context.

This! So this! With Kap, Boldin was the only player who played well.

This is all Gabbert's fault. Ever since he took 9 sacks and lost to Cleveland the Kaepernick fans have been re-energized and back to living in the past. I just hope he takes them with him when he leaves, nothing is more annoying. The love for him is like nothing I have ever seen before. Usually once a player's production goes downhill he gets tossed aside by the fan base, not Kap. Go to the Redskin form I belong to, there isn't one RG3 supporter left, this place is like no other.

that may because kirk cousins looked good i like gabbert better than kaep but gabbert is not the answer

Originally posted by BobS:
This is all Gabbert's fault. Ever since he took 9 sacks and lost to Cleveland the Kaepernick fans have been re-energized and back to living in the past. I just hope he takes them with him when he leaves, nothing is more annoying. The love for him is like nothing I have ever seen before. Usually once a player's production goes downhill he gets tossed aside by the fan base, not Kap. Go to the Redskin form I belong to, there isn't one RG3 supporter left, this place is like no other.

Originally posted by BobS:

This is all Gabbert's fault. Ever since he took 9 sacks and lost to Cleveland the Kaepernick fans have been re-energized and back to living in the past. I just hope he takes them with him when he leaves, nothing is more annoying. The love for him is like nothing I have ever seen before. Usually once a player's production goes downhill he gets tossed aside by the fan base, not Kap. Go to the Redskin form I belong to, there isn't one RG3 supporter left, this place is like no other.

The same can be said for Gabbert fans...

Just to change the momentum of this enlightening comparison of QB's and I apologize if this is hidden somewhere in this topic. What's the deal on this new surgery for Kap on his thumb? Is this for real that it took a medical staff this long to determine there was a problem?