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Originally posted by Goatie:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Just to post this here as well. I posted this in the Jimmy thread. Wanted to highlight how bad the O-line was vs Seattle. This is 10 of Jimmy G's 15 straight dropbacks in the game.

I slowed it down to 75% speed, I don't remember a single one of these plays where he wasn't pressured in 2.5 seconds or less - almost all at about 2 seconds or less. The O-line has to be better.



I'm working on the same things from the GB game(only 5 such instances, actually in way more dropbacks) and the NO's game(I'm still snagging and cutting).

Thanks for this JD. Much appreciated.

81 QB hits this year (coming into tonight's game). Average 5 per game. Down the bottom of the league.

FTFY
Originally posted by NYniner85:
OL actually wasn't bad last night from a PP perspective.

For our low standards, yes. Compared to the Bills or playoff standards, no.

That said, Mullens played his heart out and tried to be as mobile as possible which helped too. He was also absolutely tattooed several times including in the head at least 3 times. No calls of course.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 8, 2020 at 7:27 AM ]
Originally posted by Irish40Niner:
Originally posted by irishluder:
Exactly... people want us to trade up for a QB but we need a C, RG, 2 CB, WR, S/LB... if anything we need to trade down and add another 2nd and a 4th

We also need a RT...

4 of the 5 OL are good to great run blockers
3 of the TE/RB/FB's are good to great run blockers

1 of the 5 OL is a great pass protector
1 of the TE/RB/FB's is a great pass protector

It's that simple.

So it comes down to how you want to team build and which resources you want to use going forward. Are you looking to ACTUALLY upgrade starters or, like MM, you're fine with the starters and just want more get-by and quality depth players? And don't forget Kyle's scheme...these players were hand picked because they're stronger in run blocking.

PS: lots of low snaps with Brunskill last night which threw some timing off and blew a TD chance on a quick snap.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 8, 2020 at 7:54 AM ]
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We do need to improve the OL, but it seems like unless the 49ers were to acquire the '92 Cowboys OL, Command/GM won't be satisfied.

That's probably hyperbole, but still.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
OL actually wasn't bad last night from a PP perspective.

They weren't. And that weren't as bad as it seemed in the GB game. Mullens was awful vs GB, so many missed plays and even big plays that could've been bigger.

The Seattle game was m, by far, the worst O-line performance of the season. It was embarrassing considering how bad Seattle's pass rush had been going in to that game.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Just to post this here as well. I posted this in the Jimmy thread. Wanted to highlight how bad the O-line was vs Seattle. This is 10 of Jimmy G's 15 straight dropbacks in the game.

I slowed it down to 75% speed, I don't remember a single one of these plays where he wasn't pressured in 2.5 seconds or less - almost all at about 2 seconds or less. The O-line has to be better.



I'm working on the same things from the GB game(only 5 such instances, actually in way more dropbacks) and the NO's game(I'm still snagging and cutting).

JD did you notice the way DLs have decided to attack our OL? It's like every team sees the same thing on film. DLinemen attack a particular shoulder, usually the right with almost a punch/push turning the player and getting through the gap. Works almost every time.

Yeah, that's whats frustrating and the lack of continuity has really hurt because we are so slow to make adjustments. I'm tired of seeing slot blitzes come free at out QB's or free blitzes period.

Maybe it's all the shifts and motions don't leave time for multiple hard count checks to help reveal these blitzes, but in each of the last 4 games we've had at least 2 times when teams have had a free slot blitz. Those kill drives. 2 drives in a game killed from the same crap not being picked up is maddening
Originally posted by FL9er:
We do need to improve the OL, but it seems like unless the 49ers were to acquire the '92 Cowboys OL, Command/GM won't be satisfied.

That's probably hyperbole, but still.

TBF, it's hard to find OL who are great at both. My point is this is the OL they want by design with regards to skill strengths. Kyle feels he can scheme around PP issues but he absolutely needs his run blocking unit to stand on their own.
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 8, 2020 at 8:29 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
TBF, it's hard to find OL who are great at both. My point is this is the OL they want by design with regards to skill strengths. Kyle feels he can scheme around PP issues but he absolutely needs his run blocking unit to stand on their own.

Good point. Some lines are just bad at everything. This line is pretty good at run blocking but not so good at pass blocking. They aren't the worst line although they are playing worse this season. The injuries at center have guys playing out of position and the rotation screwed up. That makes the problems even worse. Throw in the QB changes and the RB shuffle and their overall play has dropped from last year.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by FL9er:
We do need to improve the OL, but it seems like unless the 49ers were to acquire the '92 Cowboys OL, Command/GM won't be satisfied.

That's probably hyperbole, but still.

TBF, it's hard to find OL who are great at both. My point is this is the OL they want by design with regards to skill strengths. Kyle feels he can scheme around PP issues but he absolutely needs his run blocking unit to stand on their own.

And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.

If Rams and Hawks OL are playoff standards there isnt much work that needs to be done.

Best thing they can do is add more young talent and create competition. That should be the focus in this draft. Some good developmental talent that will be there to be had.
[ Edited by 9ers4eva on Dec 8, 2020 at 9:12 AM ]

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.

If Rams and Hawks OL are playoff standards there isnt much work that needs to be done.

Best thing they can do is add more young talent and create competition. That should be the focus in this draft. Some good developmental talent that will be there to be had.

Both Rams and Hawks have different QB situations so somewhat apples and oranges. We need starters and, particularly at center. We've got enough "depth." In fact that's largely most of what we have.

Again, we're going to agree to disagree with comparisons. An OL that deliberately is chosen only for RB is the issue.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Dec 8, 2020 at 9:28 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by FL9er:
We do need to improve the OL, but it seems like unless the 49ers were to acquire the '92 Cowboys OL, Command/GM won't be satisfied.

That's probably hyperbole, but still.

TBF, it's hard to find OL who are great at both. My point is this is the OL they want by design with regards to skill strengths. Kyle feels he can scheme around PP issues but he absolutely needs his run blocking unit to stand on their own.

And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.

Yeah, the question was never even about "making the playoffs." It was about getting better so next time you win the Superbowl behind a much better PP unit.

The narrative in here noted by a few was this unit was "good enough." It was not. It never was.

4 of 5 regular starters. That's pretty freaking good. Some teams like Philly have had 22 different combinations along the OL and instead, our unit has not only gotten worse in PP but it's just as erratic in run blocking, their one true strength.

QB hits are a single metric BUT it's not hard to see the correlation to a passing league. All the teams who have the least are playoff bound. All the teams that have the most are already reviewing their draft forums.

There is always an outlier like Seattle but the message is clear: you have to PP well in a passing league. If this was the 60's, you'd say you have to run block in a running league.

Seattle:

[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 8, 2020 at 9:38 AM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.

If Rams and Hawks OL are playoff standards there isnt much work that needs to be done.

Best thing they can do is add more young talent and create competition. That should be the focus in this draft. Some good developmental talent that will be there to be had.

Both Rams and Hawks have different QB situations so somewhat apples and oranges. We need starters and, particularly at center. We've got enough "depth." In fact that's largely most of what we have.

Again, we're going to agree to disagree with comparisons. An OL that deliberately is chosen only for RB is the issue.

Rams are doing just fine.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by FL9er:
We do need to improve the OL, but it seems like unless the 49ers were to acquire the '92 Cowboys OL, Command/GM won't be satisfied.

That's probably hyperbole, but still.

TBF, it's hard to find OL who are great at both. My point is this is the OL they want by design with regards to skill strengths. Kyle feels he can scheme around PP issues but he absolutely needs his run blocking unit to stand on their own.

And this formula isn't going to sustain a play-off run. The only person we're missing from this group of starters is Richburg yet they're still playing below playoff standards.

Yeah, the question was never even about "making the playoffs." It was about getting better so next time you win the Superbowl behind a much better PP unit.

The narrative in here noted by a few was this unit was "good enough." It was not. It never was.

4 of 5 regular starters. That's pretty freaking good. Some teams like Philly have had 22 different combinations along the OL and instead, our unit has not only gotten worse in PP but it's just as erratic in run blocking, their one true strength.

QB hits are a single metric BUT it's not hard to see the correlation to a passing league. All the teams who have the least are playoff bound. All the teams that have the most are already reviewing their draft forums.

There is always an outlier like Seattle but the message is clear: you have to PP well in a passing league. If this was the 60's, you'd say you have to run block in a running league.

Seattle:


Agreed, that wasn't the initial question, but since it's a threshold we need to achieve, I started there since it appears we're struggling to achieve it again.

I'd even argue that even with a 100% healthy defense, this OL would struggle getting this team into the playoffs, especially when the opponent can stop the run - and that's been proven more than a few times this season. JD's example with Seattle above, Hawks with a notoriously poor pass rush looking like All-Pros against us.
I believe they won't move on from Richburg yet, not much savings letting him walk. I'd take the Saints approach with Ruiz and pick the best Center you have on the board, who can also play RG.
If Richburg is healthy, plug the kid at RG. If Richburg goes down again, you plug the rookie. The point is to have a solid plan for Center (second most important OL position).
McGlinchey could walk eventually, he hasn't been good enough. Brunskill best football came as an OT specially on the right side. Mckivitz is also an OT and I don't think he should be playing IOL.
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