So how do we fix the O-line?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:
OL has a lot to do with coaching and strategy. Barry Simms didn't go from crap to solid starter because he became more talented. He was finally used properly.

Well, they shifted him from R to L. That made the difference

That's only becase they were forced to. It was under their noses and they never tried the proven veteran. Imagine if they started Simms at LT and Staley at RT. But that would require thinking on their part.

Agreed. Been saying just this.

I assume this is not one of your windups, by the way?? !!!!!

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:
OL has a lot to do with coaching and strategy. Barry Simms didn't go from crap to solid starter because he became more talented. He was finally used properly.

Well, they shifted him from R to L. That made the difference

That's only becase they were forced to. It was under their noses and they never tried the proven veteran. Imagine if they started Simms at LT and Staley at RT. But that would require thinking on their part.

Agreed. Been saying just this.

I assume this is not one of your windups, by the way?? !!!!!

The old me is back.

Alex needs more reps. Offense needs more chemistry. OL needs better coaching and possibly more quickness. Maybe we put them on a weight loss program in the offseason rather than a bulking up one.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:
OL has a lot to do with coaching and strategy. Barry Simms didn't go from crap to solid starter because he became more talented. He was finally used properly.

Well, they shifted him from R to L. That made the difference

That's only becase they were forced to. It was under their noses and they never tried the proven veteran. Imagine if they started Simms at LT and Staley at RT. But that would require thinking on their part.

Agreed. Been saying just this.

I assume this is not one of your windups, by the way?? !!!!!

The old me is back.

Alex needs more reps. Offense needs more chemistry. OL needs better coaching and possibly more quickness. Maybe we put them on a weight loss program in the offseason rather than a bulking up one.

Couldn't agree more. But I would also look at moving Staley back to RT seriously. I would either look to draft the best OT in the draft or try and pick up someone solid through FA. Hell Simms playes his @ss off the past few weeks at LT. It's time to replace the gaurds... Rachal is still young but I say we let Bass Walk. Basically we need a total overhaul upgrade

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
I have rewatched this season...we need more that just a OG and OT

1) Staley - Keeper
2) Rachel - Need to replace if he can't step it up..disappointment this season
3) Heitman: Does not get any push in the run game....we need a center that can generate push at the center of our line
4) Baas -- Unable to get low and use leverage..was consistently blown out everytime Gore was dropped for a loss...This is a must go..should not be starting
5) Synder --Pashos is better but we need to spend a #1 here..Snyder should not be starting...Pashos would be a good backup or could we slide him to guard. Is he worth re-signing?

I was about to say scrolling through this thread. How can anybody defend the talent on the OL? It doesn't matter what type of offense or plays you run if this situation doesn't get fixed. Right now, the offense is stuck with the ability to run lead draws and 3-step drops, neither being enough to beat a quality team. This is one of the most unathletic groups in the NFL and that can only be fixed by the draft and free agency. I sometimes question their intelligence as well.

Originally posted by dedfischer:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
I have rewatched this season...we need more that just a OG and OT

1) Staley - Keeper
2) Rachel - Need to replace if he can't step it up..disappointment this season
3) Heitman: Does not get any push in the run game....we need a center that can generate push at the center of our line4) Baas -- Unable to get low and use leverage..was consistently blown out everytime Gore was dropped for a loss...This is a must go..should not be starting
5) Synder --Pashos is better but we need to spend a #1 here..Snyder should not be starting...Pashos would be a good backup or could we slide him to guard. Is he worth re-signing?

I was about to say scrolling through this thread. How can anybody defend the talent on the OL? It doesn't matter what type of offense or plays you run if this situation doesn't get fixed. Right now, the offense is stuck with the ability to run lead draws and 3-step drops, neither being enough to beat a quality team. This is one of the most unathletic groups in the NFL and that can only be fixed by the draft and free agency. I sometimes question their intelligence as well.

I think Heitman is solid but not great.. He really doesn't not generate much push.. Isn't this kinda important when it comes to being a center??

Originally posted by dedfischer:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
I have rewatched this season...we need more that just a OG and OT

1) Staley - Keeper
2) Rachel - Need to replace if he can't step it up..disappointment this season
3) Heitman: Does not get any push in the run game....we need a center that can generate push at the center of our line
4) Baas -- Unable to get low and use leverage..was consistently blown out everytime Gore was dropped for a loss...This is a must go..should not be starting
5) Synder --Pashos is better but we need to spend a #1 here..Snyder should not be starting...Pashos would be a good backup or could we slide him to guard. Is he worth re-signing?

I was about to say scrolling through this thread. How can anybody defend the talent on the OL? It doesn't matter what type of offense or plays you run if this situation doesn't get fixed. Right now, the offense is stuck with the ability to run lead draws and 3-step drops, neither being enough to beat a quality team. This is one of the most unathletic groups in the NFL and that can only be fixed by the draft and free agency. I sometimes question their intelligence as well.

And the 9ers oline is one of the main reasons we can't really determine what to do with Smith. Without blocking we aren't going anywhere. Put Steve Young and Roger Craig behind our oline and you'll get crap.

Originally posted by jays9ers:

Originally posted by dedfischer:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
I have rewatched this season...we need more that just a OG and OT

1) Staley - Keeper
2) Rachel - Need to replace if he can't step it up..disappointment this season
3) Heitman: Does not get any push in the run game....we need a center that can generate push at the center of our line4) Baas -- Unable to get low and use leverage..was consistently blown out everytime Gore was dropped for a loss...This is a must go..should not be starting
5) Synder --Pashos is better but we need to spend a #1 here..Snyder should not be starting...Pashos would be a good backup or could we slide him to guard. Is he worth re-signing?

I was about to say scrolling through this thread. How can anybody defend the talent on the OL? It doesn't matter what type of offense or plays you run if this situation doesn't get fixed. Right now, the offense is stuck with the ability to run lead draws and 3-step drops, neither being enough to beat a quality team. This is one of the most unathletic groups in the NFL and that can only be fixed by the draft and free agency. I sometimes question their intelligence as well.

I think Heitman is solid but not great.. He really doesn't not generate much push.. Isn't this kinda important when it comes to being a center??

Do you remember the 4th and 1 play awhile back where we ran a QB sneak and the line couldn't get a push. It does matter in key situations so even center is an area we need to improve at. Let's face it every position on the oline is either below NFL quality (Bass, Rachel, Synder) or just at it (Heitiman and Staley)

Alex Smith moved himself into way more trouble than the line got beat. He was constantly stepping into pressure. He rolled out when he should have stepped up and stepped up when he should have slid left/right. He bailed at almost every sing of trouble last night. I think it was one of his worst games as a pro. Alex has yet to step up his game vs. a superior opponent. Last night proved to me that we are not out of the woods with our QB situation.

I'm voting for free agency on the OL. It's a weak year in college football on the OL, especially at the top. Good year for DTs, pass rushers and DBs. Out of the Big 12, I wouldn't recommend one OL. Russell Okung will be taken way too high and everything past that doesn't equal next level starter. I'm assuming since he's the #1 rated tackle that the other conferences are weak as well. OU's Trent Williams is trash no matter what Todd McShay tells you. The Niners also need a safety that can run. Michael Lewis was slow at Colorado, so I can't imagine him being much better in the NFL. Earl Thomas of Texas will probably leave early and the Niners can get him with one of their 1st round picks. I'm not real impressed with NT Franklin for a 3-4, and Terrance Cody of Bama can probably be had for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. I spoke of OLB Von Miller of A&M. Dude is a baller and he might get more expensive than his current 2nd round grade, if he comes out and more tape gets around on him. He's a tremendous upgrade in athleticism and speed from Manny Lawson. Manny is listed at 6'5", 240 lbs, so Miller at 6'3", 240 lbs isn't any smaller. Just some ramblings from a Crabtree fan.

Originally posted by taney71:

Originally posted by jays9ers:

Originally posted by dedfischer:

Originally posted by BrodieWins:
I have rewatched this season...we need more that just a OG and OT

1) Staley - Keeper
2) Rachel - Need to replace if he can't step it up..disappointment this season
3) Heitman: Does not get any push in the run game....we need a center that can generate push at the center of our line4) Baas -- Unable to get low and use leverage..was consistently blown out everytime Gore was dropped for a loss...This is a must go..should not be starting
5) Synder --Pashos is better but we need to spend a #1 here..Snyder should not be starting...Pashos would be a good backup or could we slide him to guard. Is he worth re-signing?

I was about to say scrolling through this thread. How can anybody defend the talent on the OL? It doesn't matter what type of offense or plays you run if this situation doesn't get fixed. Right now, the offense is stuck with the ability to run lead draws and 3-step drops, neither being enough to beat a quality team. This is one of the most unathletic groups in the NFL and that can only be fixed by the draft and free agency. I sometimes question their intelligence as well.

I think Heitman is solid but not great.. He really doesn't not generate much push.. Isn't this kinda important when it comes to being a center??

Do you remember the 4th and 1 play awhile back where we ran a QB sneak and the line couldn't get a push. It does matter in key situations so even center is an area we need to improve at. Let's face it every position on the oline is either below NFL quality (Bass, Rachel, Synder) or just at it (Heitiman and Staley)

I agree with most of this, except for the fact that Staley has the potential to be a top tier T in the NFL, whether it be left or right side. In reference to their athleticism, Staley is the most athletic lineman in the NFL.

I would like to see a new Tackle, Guard, and Center in the mix before the next training camp. Ideally the Tackle is a 1st or 2nd round pick.

TE is another position of need. WR and TE blocking has also been an issue this season. With Vernon running routes more this season, it will be necessary to find a TE that does all aspects of the game well. Delanie Walker is extremely overrated in these forums IMHO.

We need a lot of help on the Oline, mostly though, at RT. Whether we sign a FA, resign Pashos, or draft someone, I don't care. We just need to upgrade the position and I'd be shocked if that wasn't our priority going into the offseason. For a team predicated on running the ball, time of possession and not turning the ball over, RT is a dire need. I'd be shocked if we didn't draft an OT with one of first three picks. Scott has been pretty successful drafting OTs, so I woudn't assume we automatically go RT with our first pick.

We also need to resign Barry Sims. He's been a pleasant surprise at LT and he's a cheap option if Staley goes down again. He'll also probably get some looks at RT again.

Obviously, we need to bolster the interior. I've been a huge critic of David Baas, but I think the coaching staff is really starting to like him in the running game. When we run left, it's behind Baas. When we run right, it's behind a pulling Baas. This has been working for us the last couple weeks and I hope it continues. So, I didn't think I'd ever say this, but "resign Baas". We can't really afford to let him walk.

Additionally though, we need to bring in a veteran RG that can compete with Chilo. He's not ready to start. He has the talent and he'll be able to contribute in a year or two, but not now and probably not even next year. He was very raw coming out of college and it's shown in the pros. He could really benefit from sitting, watching and learning. We also need to bring in some young players. We lack depth and we lack young players with potential. We're not going to find any hidden gems along the line if we never draft.

One last thing, when we face an overwhelming pass rush, we have to spread them out. It's the only way we're going to beat it. It seems like Raye is too slow to adust. Raye doens't make changes until halftime, which is often too late. Smith can make an aggressive defense pay if he comes out of the shotgun with 3 or 4 receivers. We saw it again against Philly. Once we spread them out and were able to get the ball out quickly, their blitz packages became a liability and they were forced to drop more into coverage.

i have been writing for a lengthy period of time: draft 2 OLs in first rd, sign an all Pro OL in FA, fire Foerester(sp?) , AND:

This is not popular, but wouldn't you rather see your HC completely involved in the game, calling O plays and is in his 40's(so he has been seasoned, but not too old), also has been a successful OC elsewhere...instead of a HC with no previous coaching experience except as LB coach( and certainly no upper level experience as either OC or DC?) That is it in a nutshell: fix the line and keep the same GM, HC, OC, OL coach, and i believe we will have the same team as this yr, even if we DO draft 2 first rd OLs, and sign an all pro OL in FA.

And THAT is the problem: we are really weak at the 4 coaching and GM positions; we have a GM that doesn't want to waste hi $ on OL, and you see the result. Oh yes, only thing worse than keeping the current crew on board next yr...is having the team run by the kid who is the owner's son, and has stars in his eyes whenever bigMIke and mcClown are mentioned.

Man, i love this team and have since 1977. But i am not encouraged, and am resigned to another yr of mediocrity if we keep the same top mgmt we currently have. Another thing, how do you fire the owner? you can't, and that is probably the one worst problem we have. Jed may be somewhat decent if he is a good student of the game in the next 10 yrs or so. The only other thing i have written about more is how desperately we need to hire a HOFO...head of football operations, something lowly Cleveland is now considering doing. Cleveland, even tho they are choosing the wrong guy to be HOFO is better off than we are, because they at least get it. You can't have guys at the positions noted above, who aren't the best in the business at their jobs...and scot, jimmyrae, bigmike, and certainly foerster are not.

Fix that, and this team becomes a playoff contender overnite. Keep the same crew, and be prepared for the same results yr after yr, until we unload the guys at the top. (We still have to revamp OL, and anybody who leads this team better start there or he will have no success until we DO have a first class line.)

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Joecool:
OL has a lot to do with coaching and strategy. Barry Simms didn't go from crap to solid starter because he became more talented. He was finally used properly.

Well, they shifted him from R to L. That made the difference

That's only becase they were forced to. It was under their noses and they never tried the proven veteran. Imagine if they started Simms at LT and Staley at RT. But that would require thinking on their part.

Agreed. Been saying just this.

I assume this is not one of your windups, by the way?? !!!!!

The old me is back.

Alex needs more reps. Offense needs more chemistry. OL needs better coaching and possibly more quickness. Maybe we put them on a weight loss program in the offseason rather than a bulking up one.

I agree with what you two are saying.

Also, why do most posters here assume that all we need is a right tackle? As far as I'm concerned, we don't even have a left tackle. Joe Staley is a solid right tackle, but he should not be playing on the left side.

If--again, if--Okung looks like an elite, cornerstone left tackle, I say move up and get him by any means necessary. You can never overpay for a franchise left tackle.

LT: Okung, Sims
LG: *Free Agent*
C: Heitmann, Wallace
RG: Baas or Snyder or *Rookie* or Rachal
RT: Staley, Pashos

And of course, a new offensive line coach.

^Staley is one of the better, young LTs. Plus, do you really want a rookie starting at LT, especially when we don't have to put his there?

I'm tired of heitmann getting a bye in this board.
There was more pressure right up the middle then anywhere else
well maybe tied with snyder. But he isn't the answer at center.