Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

now do all the other plays

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Then there's this one. The drag is covered by the linebacker in the middle. The running back isn't even turned around by the time the first defender gets there. Lance beats the first guy, and then when the second guy is in his face, THEN the HB is ready to catch the ball, which would require Lance to do a Jeff Garcia jump pass and end up on the high light real. So, am I to understand because Lance can't OVERCOME HIS s**t TIER PASS BLOCKING that he therefore sucks?

You know who actually sucks? 49ers fans.

This play he had no chance. The first one you posted you'd at least want to see from behind the QB before you draw the conclusions you're drawing IMO.

Maybe, but the defender appears to be bumping the outside WR to goad the QB into throwing the out. Maybe there was enough room to take a chance, but it'd still probably be taking a chance. NFL CBs can make up two or three yards in a second when they're sitting there waiting to pounce, as it appears he was. At worst that's being too cautious, not "slow processing." It would be impossible to know he's playing in the flat until after he lets go of the outside WR, and that happened almost simultaneously when Lance ended his drop. It seems pretty clear to me he was trying to get a Jimmy special there and bait Lance into throwing the out. And Lance "processed" fast enough to go to read two (assuming that was Bell), which was open. But he immediately got smacked.

Originally posted by boast:
now do all the other plays

That's half of the times he was sacked, and they ended two of his drives. That's more than enough to debunk the MORONIC claim that he was getting sacked because he held the ball too long.

The first sack, by the way, happened because the WR was still running up field by the time Lance's drop had ended. It was a stick concept. The ball has to be out immediately at the end of the drop, otherwise the defenders will pounce on it. So he moved to the next read, and within a second after that there was pressure again. If he were perfect, maybe he throws it to Bell there too. Maybe if he was really experienced, instead of being a robot, he stands there and waits for 17 to finish his route. But that's not a QB simply running the offense. That's a QB going above and beyond.

But that's THREE of the four sacks, and one of them was IMPOSSIBLE to avoid, and AT LEAST one of the other three — and possibly TWO of the other three — would have required not merely a QB being competent, but a QB playing EXCELLENT and overcoming the poor play of his teammates. Your argument is he's trash because he's not excellent.

That is a STUPID argument. (the argument is stupid mods, not the poster).

Bottom line: knee jerk reaction from people who were watching the QB and not the offensive line and defense. These are the people who see Lance pump and then get sacked and ASSume it was because he "held the ball" when if they were watching the defense and the line they would have seen the disguised flat zone and attempt to bait Lance into throwing his first read.

DON'T WATCH THE QB. WATCH THE LINE AND THE DEFENSE.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Then there's this one. The drag is covered by the linebacker in the middle. The running back isn't even turned around by the time the first defender gets there. Lance beats the first guy, and then when the second guy is in his face, THEN the HB is ready to catch the ball, which would require Lance to do a Jeff Garcia jump pass and end up on the high light real. So, am I to understand because Lance can't OVERCOME HIS s**t TIER PASS BLOCKING that he therefore sucks?

You know who actually sucks? 49ers fans.

This play he had no chance. The first one you posted you'd at least want to see from behind the QB before you draw the conclusions you're drawing IMO.

Maybe, but the defender appears to be bumping the outside WR to goad the QB into throwing the out. Maybe there was enough room to take a chance, but it'd still probably be taking a chance. NFL CBs can make up two or three yards in a second when they're sitting there waiting to pounce, as it appears he was. At worst that's being too cautious, not "slow processing." It would be impossible to know he's playing in the flat until after he lets go of the outside WR, and that happened almost simultaneously when Lance ended his drop. It seems pretty clear to me he was trying to get a Jimmy special there and bait Lance into throwing the out. And Lance "processed" fast enough to go to read two (assuming that was Bell), which was open. But he immediately got smacked.

It's not worth the time to evaluate this play without seeing the routes downfield.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Then there's this one. The drag is covered by the linebacker in the middle. The running back isn't even turned around by the time the first defender gets there. Lance beats the first guy, and then when the second guy is in his face, THEN the HB is ready to catch the ball, which would require Lance to do a Jeff Garcia jump pass and end up on the high light real. So, am I to understand because Lance can't OVERCOME HIS s**t TIER PASS BLOCKING that he therefore sucks?

You know who actually sucks? 49ers fans.

This play he had no chance. The first one you posted you'd at least want to see from behind the QB before you draw the conclusions you're drawing IMO.

Maybe, but the defender appears to be bumping the outside WR to goad the QB into throwing the out. Maybe there was enough room to take a chance, but it'd still probably be taking a chance. NFL CBs can make up two or three yards in a second when they're sitting there waiting to pounce, as it appears he was. At worst that's being too cautious, not "slow processing." It would be impossible to know he's playing in the flat until after he lets go of the outside WR, and that happened almost simultaneously when Lance ended his drop. It seems pretty clear to me he was trying to get a Jimmy special there and bait Lance into throwing the out. And Lance "processed" fast enough to go to read two (assuming that was Bell), which was open. But he immediately got smacked.

It's not worth the time to evaluate this play without seeing the routes downfield.

So it's very clear on the first one I posted that progression starts with the out route, and when that route ends, that's when the pressure gets there. Based on the pre-snap read, it's bump on the outside WR. It's reasonable to assume that CB is going with the outside WR, making the out the 1st read. But the CB was bumping the outside and playing a flat zone. A disguised coverage. And the other play I posted, there's IMMEDIATE pressure. It's not like he had the time to look through his reads. We will certainly know more when the All 22 is out, but I'm sorry, on both of these plays, to avoid the sacks would require a QB doing more than just running the offense. You're asking the QB to make a play. I am quite confident the All 22 will show that as well.

The way it appears here, however, is that you are all saying Lance played poorly because he didn't play good enough to overcome the poor play of the line. Or in other words, Lance was trash because he wasn't exceptional. Again, not the best argument.

Cool. So we have established that trey was the only.qb that didnt have a chance on the majority of his plays. We have also established that it only.rained against Chicago when trey had the ball. Everything is making so much sense.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Bottom line: knee jerk reaction from people who were watching the QB and not the offensive line and defense. These are the people who see Lance pump and then get sacked and ASSume it was because he "held the ball" when if they were watching the defense and the line they would have seen the disguised flat zone and attempt to bait Lance into throwing his first read.

DON'T WATCH THE QB. WATCH THE LINE AND THE DEFENSE.

Watch Shanahan annoint purdy starter for a reason...

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
So it's very clear on the first one I posted that progression starts with the out route, and when that route ends, that's when the pressure gets there. Based on the pre-snap read, it's bump on the outside WR. It's reasonable to assume that CB is going with the outside WR, making the out the 1st read. But the CB was bumping the outside and playing a flat zone. A disguised coverage. And the other play I posted, there's IMMEDIATE pressure. It's not like he had the time to look through his reads. We will certainly know more when the All 22 is out, but I'm sorry, on both of these plays, to avoid the sacks would require a QB doing more than just running the offense. You're asking the QB to make a play. I am quite confident the All 22 will show that as well.

The way it appears here, however, is that you are all saying Lance played poorly because he didn't play good enough to overcome the poor play of the line. Or in other words, Lance was trash because he wasn't exceptional. Again, not the best argument.

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

Trey had a rough outing, but I was still pleased to see his improved mechanics and better touch and accuracy on his short and intermediate throws.

He did start with three consecutive 3 & outs, but finished with three nice drives.

Having a rough start isn't ideal, but it allowed Lance to experience and work through adversity, and he seemed to have handled it well.

I also liked how Shanahan made adjustments and called more play action roll outs to give him more time.

Lance wasn't perfect, he supposedly held the ball too long a couple times, but without seeing the All22 footage, one can't really determine what he was seeing as far as coverages and open receivers.

As for the near ints, they apparently weren't a big deal to Shanahan as he called two back to back passes over the middle (that went for 22 & 24 yards) immediately after Lance's 1st near int in that same part of the field.

And as for the 'lucky' touchdown, as they say "sometimes it's better to be lucky than good," and "fortunate favors the bold."

If Purdy were to win the NFCCG or SB on such a fluke play, we'd all gladly take it and couldn't care less of it was just 'luck'.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Cool. So we have established that trey was the only.qb that didnt have a chance on the majority of his plays. We have also established that it only.rained against Chicago when trey had the ball. Everything is making so much sense.

Do I have to get out a stop watch and time how long it took for linemen to get beaten by both guys? Show me the plays where Darnold had pressure like that which didn't involve a blitz. On BOTH of the plays I posted, they got there IMMEDIATELY with FOUR rushers. Please show the same for Darnold on multiple plays (noting that these two were NOT the only time this happened to Lance).

Go on Jose, put your money where your mouth is. Show Darnold with a play where THREE of four defenders pressure him in less than two seconds. Please. Please do it. Show me where I'm wrong.

And Darnold wasn't the only one to make big throws under pressure. When Lance had an iota of time, he did okay.



Darnold had mostly a clean pocket and mostly played well. What I want to see is if Lance gets the same opportunity will he be able to do it. But I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend it's an apples to apples comparison.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

What's the point of being a strong armed QB if he's afraid to drive that throw between the flat and hook defender? It's not like Trey was late. He on time, in rhythm and still double clutched leading to totally killing the play.. Awful.

He's always had this field vision and hesitation issue going back to NDSU. I think it's safe to say this is who he is.

I've been very kind towards Trey this offseason and camp but there is no way you can walk away today and turn this all on the OL (they weren't great either) but the bottom line is if Trey has to stay in the pocket he looks like a statue lost in the woods. Holding the ball too long and it looks like it has gotten worse. There is no way in hell Kyle will have him at two looking like he did today.

Brock better be the one otherwise we are screwed again.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
So it's very clear on the first one I posted that progression starts with the out route, and when that route ends, that's when the pressure gets there. Based on the pre-snap read, it's bump on the outside WR. It's reasonable to assume that CB is going with the outside WR, making the out the 1st read. But the CB was bumping the outside and playing a flat zone. A disguised coverage. And the other play I posted, there's IMMEDIATE pressure. It's not like he had the time to look through his reads. We will certainly know more when the All 22 is out, but I'm sorry, on both of these plays, to avoid the sacks would require a QB doing more than just running the offense. You're asking the QB to make a play. I am quite confident the All 22 will show that as well.

The way it appears here, however, is that you are all saying Lance played poorly because he didn't play good enough to overcome the poor play of the line. Or in other words, Lance was trash because he wasn't exceptional. Again, not the best argument.

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

Bro, you just said if we can't see the whole field we shouldn't judge, and the moment the ball would have needed to be thrown we can't see the outside corner. And given he coverage, I'd bet dollars to pesos he's waiting to pounce.

A big collision is not the worst scenario there. An interception is, either by a drop or by the defender getting there first. I'm not saying it's an impossible throw.

But you're missing the point!

A QB should not sit there and go through his progressions as if his pass protection isn't going to do their job@! The coverage was DESIGNED to rob an out route dude! That was the very reason that CB bumped the outside receiver and leaked back in. The CORRECT READ is to go to the in route over the middle. What you want here is the QB to psychically know his linemen won't do their job, choose to stick to the first read even though the coverage says go to the second, and fit it in there. You're asking the QB to be a one-read QB and just Jimmy Garoppolo the ball into the pre-snap read regardless of the coverage.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

What's the point of being a strong armed QB if he's afraid to drive that throw between the flat and hook defender? It's not like Trey was late. He on time, in rhythm and still double clutched leading to totally killing the play.. Awful.

He's always had this field vision and hesitation issue going back to NDSU. I think it's safe to say this is who he is.

Don't even need to have a gun to zip that in. He had the right idea when he was about to throw it right before the wr made his cut. He just hesitated as you said.