Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

What's the point of being a strong armed QB if he's afraid to drive that throw between the flat and hook defender? It's not like Trey was late. He on time, in rhythm and still double clutched leading to totally killing the play.. Awful.

He's always had this field vision and hesitation issue going back to NDSU. I think it's safe to say this is who he is.

See my reply to SmokeyJOe. The coverage was designed to bait the QB into throwing the out. That is the entire purpose of the outside CB bumping the outside WR and then leaking into the flat. What you're demanding here is that Trey simply ignore his progressions and throw to his pre-snap read regardless of what the defense does. Ideally, executing the play against the coverage as it seems to be designed, the QB DOESN'T throw to his first pre-snap read, and instead throws to the open guy on the in, the 2nd read. But Lance is immediately under pressure after NOT being a "one read QB" and instead going through is progressions.

The correct read is to go to next WR in the progression. The PRESSURE is what prevented that. You people are seriously saying Trey was wrong because he DIDN'T act like a one read QB...

Throw it to the inside shoulder. Versus zone, the TE is also asked to make the adjustment by throttling down and sitting in the quiet area. It's not a difficult throw.

Okay, how do none of you see that this is a hindsight 20/20 situation? Had the line done their job, this would have been a twenty yard completion over the middle.

You're saying the QB should be a one-read QB and win with his arm, rather than go through his progressions. That's what you're saying. This discussion would not be happening if the line did their job, and quarterbacks should not choose where they are throwing on the assumption that the line is not going to do their job.

Originally posted by 9erson3:
You're trying to hard to be a Monday morning scout. Not sure what game you watched but his vision on the field looked poor which led him to holding the ball too long. Three three and outs to start. He looked lost. And I've been a Trey supporter. But what we saw today will NEVER make him a two.

Please specifically point out where I'm wrong. The only counter argument people are making here is that QB should be one-read QBs and throw to their first read, and beat the coverage with their arm, because a QB must play as if his line is not going to protect him enough to go to his second read. That is literally the argument everyone on the last two pages is making (although I doubt they realize it).

Again... the CB is playing a flat... and the route is an out. It is a BAD READ to throw it there, PERIOD. A great throw can beat a bad read. Jimmy did it all the time. But that doesn't change the fact that throwing an out route when the CB is playing the flat is a BAD READ.

Lol I wish him luck Vs Allen.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

What's the point of being a strong armed QB if he's afraid to drive that throw between the flat and hook defender? It's not like Trey was late. He on time, in rhythm and still double clutched leading to totally killing the play.. Awful.

He's always had this field vision and hesitation issue going back to NDSU. I think it's safe to say this is who he is.

See my reply to SmokeyJOe. The coverage was designed to bait the QB into throwing the out. That is the entire purpose of the outside CB bumping the outside WR and then leaking into the flat. What you're demanding here is that Trey simply ignore his progressions and throw to his pre-snap read regardless of what the defense does. Ideally, executing the play against the coverage as it seems to be designed, the QB DOESN'T throw to his first pre-snap read, and instead throws to the open guy on the in, the 2nd read. But Lance is immediately under pressure after NOT being a "one read QB" and instead going through is progressions.

The correct read is to go to next WR in the progression. The PRESSURE is what prevented that. You people are seriously saying Trey was wrong because he DIDN'T act like a one read QB...

Throw it to the inside shoulder. Versus zone, the TE is also asked to make the adjustment by throttling down and sitting in the quiet area. It's not a difficult throw.

Okay, how do none of you see that this is a hindsight 20/20 situation? Had the line done their job, this would have been a twenty yard completion over the middle.

You're saying the QB should be a one-read QB and win with his arm, rather than go through his progressions. That's what you're saying. This discussion would not be happening if the line did their job, and quarterbacks should not choose where they are throwing on the assumption that the line is not going to do their job.

When he pumped his throw, he should have located the ball on the inside shoulder instead of pumping. You can see the TE knowing to not run the Out. It's a basic sight adjustment. I'm not asking for some elite level play here. Anyway, if you don't agree that's cool. It's not a big deal. We just see this play differently.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Okay, how do none of you see that this is a hindsight 20/20 situation? Had the line done their job, this would have been a twenty yard completion over the middle.

You're saying the QB should be a one-read QB and win with his arm, rather than go through his progressions. That's what you're saying. This discussion would not be happening if the line did their job, and quarterbacks should not choose where they are throwing on the assumption that the line is not going to do their job.

I don't know that you get that route without Trey pulling back on the pass. Call it a 'pump fake' for simplicity if you want. Not sure I agree with your take on his pre-snap read either... but I'll def wait to see the All-22, or someone else analyzing it first. I think you're making assumptions that I don't think are clear with the two views.

It's hard not to be worried about the QB position at this point. Trey didn't look good today, Darnold can't be trusted, and Purdy has looked like a disaster in camp and it's pure fantasy at this point to think he'll ever be the same guy he was pre-injury again. Not feeling good about things. Kirk Cousins 2024 is looking like a real possibility.

Originally posted by thl408:
When he pumped his throw, he should have located the ball on the inside shoulder instead of pumping. You can see the TE knowing to not run the Out. It's a basic sight adjustment. I'm not asking for some elite level play here. Anyway, if you don't agree that's cool. It's not a big deal. We just see this play differently.

That's what I see as well.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It's hard not to be worried about the QB position at this point. Trey didn't look good today, Darnold can't be trusted, and Purdy has looked like a disaster in camp and it's pure fantasy at this point to think he'll ever be the same guy he was pre-injury again. Not feeling good about things. Kirk Cousins 2024 is looking like a real possibility.

lol. you read tweets.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It's hard not to be worried about the QB position at this point. Trey didn't look good today, Darnold can't be trusted, and Purdy has looked like a disaster in camp and it's pure fantasy at this point to think he'll ever be the same guy he was pre-injury again. Not feeling good about things. Kirk Cousins 2024 is looking like a real possibility.

I don't know. I've seen some of the same guys making comments about Purdy also tweeting about how good Trey looked, and yet he was f**king putrid today.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Trey Lance took two sacks on his first drive, the last one on 3rd down by TikTok star Isaac Rochell.pic.twitter.com/LSgmVnSzVA

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) August 13, 2023

Yeah, I don't know man. If the timing is good and the pass is accurate... Maybe a big collision at worst. I can see the argument that he turns it down because the DB sits but I don't think it requires exceptional QB'ing to throw it there.

What's the point of being a strong armed QB if he's afraid to drive that throw between the flat and hook defender? It's not like Trey was late. He on time, in rhythm and still double clutched leading to totally killing the play.. Awful.

He's always had this field vision and hesitation issue going back to NDSU. I think it's safe to say this is who he is.

See my reply to SmokeyJOe. The coverage was designed to bait the QB into throwing the out. That is the entire purpose of the outside CB bumping the outside WR and then leaking into the flat. What you're demanding here is that Trey simply ignore his progressions and throw to his pre-snap read regardless of what the defense does. Ideally, executing the play against the coverage as it seems to be designed, the QB DOESN'T throw to his first pre-snap read, and instead throws to the open guy on the in, the 2nd read. But Lance is immediately under pressure after NOT being a "one read QB" and instead going through is progressions.

The correct read is to go to next WR in the progression. The PRESSURE is what prevented that. You people are seriously saying Trey was wrong because he DIDN'T act like a one read QB...

Throw it to the inside shoulder. Versus zone, the TE is also asked to make the adjustment by throttling down and sitting in the quiet area. It's not a difficult throw.

Okay, how do none of you see that this is a hindsight 20/20 situation? Had the line done their job, this would have been a twenty yard completion over the middle.

You're saying the QB should be a one-read QB and win with his arm, rather than go through his progressions. That's what you're saying. This discussion would not be happening if the line did their job, and quarterbacks should not choose where they are throwing on the assumption that the line is not going to do their job.

When he pumped his throw, he should have located the ball on the inside shoulder instead of pumping. You can see the TE knowing to not run the Out. It's a basic sight adjustment. I'm not asking for some elite level play here. Anyway, if you don't agree that's cool. It's not a big deal. We just see this play differently.

Okay here's the thing. Routes have sight adjustments, sure. A good accurate throw can complete that, yes. Now look at the other angle SmokeyJoe posted. Look how WIDE OPEN the in route is. Do you see that? (that little black spot at the arrow tip is the ref... there is MILES of room there)

If we assume the line actually does their job, where do you want him to throw that? Keep in mind this was NOT a blitz. This was a four man rush. Theoretically there is no need to throw fast. So if the line does their job, where should this ball go? If the line does their job, and he throws the six yard out by putting it low and on the inside shoulder (assuming the other defender bracketing him doesn't get there first), and we get six yards, and leave thirty yards on the field, what are you going to say then?

EDITED because I used the wrong their twice. Once is forgivable. Twice must be edited.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It's hard not to be worried about the QB position at this point. Trey didn't look good today, Darnold can't be trusted, and Purdy has looked like a disaster in camp and it's pure fantasy at this point to think he'll ever be the same guy he was pre-injury again. Not feeling good about things. Kirk Cousins 2024 is looking like a real possibility.

If we weren't stacked, tanking for Caleb would be so dope.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Okay here's the thing. Routes have sight adjustments, sure. A good accurate throw can complete that, yes. Now look at the other angle SmokeyJoe posted. Look how WIDE OPEN the in route is. Do you see that? (that little black spot at the arrow tip is the ref... there is MILES of room there)

If we assume the line actually does there job, where do you want him to throw that? Keep in mind this was NOT a blitz. This was a four man rush. Theoretically there is no need to throw fast. So if the line does there job, where should this ball go? If the line does their job, and he throws the six yard out by putting it low and on the inside shoulder (assuming the other defender bracketing him doesn't get there first), and we get six yards, and leave thirty yards on the field, what are you going to say then?

Do you see the point that he doesn't get that route without the massive 'pump fake'? Watch the LB when the ball is snapped. Looks like a basic cover 2.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by thl408:
When he pumped his throw, he should have located the ball on the inside shoulder instead of pumping. You can see the TE knowing to not run the Out. It's a basic sight adjustment. I'm not asking for some elite level play here. Anyway, if you don't agree that's cool. It's not a big deal. We just see this play differently.

That's what I see as well.

X3

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Okay here's the thing. Routes have sight adjustments, sure. A good accurate throw can complete that, yes. Now look at the other angle SmokeyJoe posted. Look how WIDE OPEN the in route is. Do you see that? (that little black spot at the arrow tip is the ref... there is MILES of room there)

If we assume the line actually does there job, where do you want him to throw that? Keep in mind this was NOT a blitz. This was a four man rush. Theoretically there is no need to throw fast. So if the line does there job, where should this ball go? If the line does their job, and he throws the six yard out by putting it low and on the inside shoulder (assuming the other defender bracketing him doesn't get there first), and we get six yards, and leave thirty yards on the field, what are you going to say then?

Do you see the point that he doesn't get that route without the massive 'pump fake'? Watch the LB when the ball is snapped. Looks like a basic cover 2.

Um, why would you throw an out route in cover 2? (EDITED TO ADD THESE SENTENCES: The middle and the seams are where you go in cover 2 anyway. That guy has a lot of ground to cover over the middle. And if not, you throw the drag coming across underneath) So let's say Lance didn't think it was a press cover 4 or a cover 3 (can't see where the other safety is). How does that change what happened post-snap? Post-snap it's a cover 2, and in a cover 2, you DON'T throw the out route. Oh, sure, yeah, you could do it, if you throw it well. But you ideally attack the seams and the middle in cover 2. And look how wide open the middle is here.

Assuming the line does their job, where should this ball go? If you don't say over the middle to that thirty yard gain... And if not, you throw the drag coming across underneath.

Regardless, Trey made that pump beacuse he didn't want to throw an out into a flat zone, which opened up the middle. Which would have been a huge gain if the line didn't immediately collapse.

None of you are answering the question of why a QB should throw an out into a flat zone just because it's his first read, as if he must assume that the line will not hold up long enough to go through his progressions.