Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:
Why? Because his ceiling and physical tools are limited, and Lance is the superior talent and athlete with a canon arm with all the same intangibles and leadership Brock brings.

You have no idea what intangibles and leadership ability Lance brings. To be fair, he hasn't played enough to prove it one way or the other. What we do know is that Purdy has a level of intangibles and leadership that is not common even in a veteran QB, much less a rookie. All the league is reveling in what he has shown. Other than giving Lance an opportunity to show what he can do in TC and preseason next year, he has shown nothing of those key components necessary to perform at a high level.

What we do know is that ShanaLynch invested 3 1st round picks and a 7th-round pick in the quest for a starting QB and a backup...and they were successful. The fact the roles were reversed is only incidental. The 49ers now have a high-quality starting QB and a backup they hope to develop to the point he can win some games if he is called on to do so.

I don't think the bolded is fair when specifically talking about intangibles and leadership. From all the reports from his teammates, interviews, and press conferences we've seen from Trey, he's a really mature young man and has a lot of the qualities you want to see from a franchise QB off the field.

On the field, I do think it's fair to say we haven't seen it yet. IMO Trey has yet to get into a passing rhythm and on the flip side, Purdy has shown that immediately and has stayed consistent.

I feel like we should all view this situation as a win-win, we have a very good starter in Purdy at the moment, and we have another more raw player in Trey that has the potential to be a very good player as well. Either way we will have a very good starter for years and we know our QBs get hurt a lot, so both should get playing time.

We don't disagree. My first paragraph noted that he hasn't shown enough yet to judge one way or the other. What you bolded was just me saying the same thing another way. My central point was disagreement with Ezekiel on his statement that Lance has all the intangibles and leadership that Purdy has shown. One has shown it in games. The other has yet to show it one way or the other.

Isn't the bottom line that when your number is called you had better be ready to make all of your opportunities? Purdy has. The whole NFL is talking about how good he is. Trey did not. The first game this year was not a "monsoon" throughout the entire game. It was in the last 5 minutes or so. Before that it rained on and off and Fields showed he was the superior QB. Texans last year was an easy game and Trey won it fair and square but it was the worst team in the comp. It was good for his confidence but it was not a huge scalp like Miami, the Bucks and the Seachooks (who Trey did not beat). Sure Trey may develop or play better. But he has not done that to date. We have someone who has set the world on fire from the get go. Why would Kyle and Lynch go back to a maybe? Does not compute. Is illogical. The strong roster is not going to be put on hold until Lance is ready. Reality does not work that way in football.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

it's already been pointed out by Kurt Warner and others breaking down the film that Brock is moving to his 3rd / 4th read and not just taking the easy check downs. the second Kittle TD in SEA was his 4th read per Shanny.

do you even understand the Shanahan offense? this is it.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

The second Kittle TD was not designed for Kittle. Purdy went through the progression and found the open receiver and hit him on stride.

What more can you ask for a rookie QB on the first 3 games (excluding KC garbage time)? Even if you have a #1 pick QB, you should be encouraged and exciting for this kind of performance.

Its exciting but to me it's very Jimmy-esque. That is not a diss on him as I think Jimmy was playing really good football so it's more of a compliment but people are acting like Trey hasn't flashed some pretty good attributes as well. I hope I'm wrong but I think the immediate crowning of the guy and suddenly dismissing Trey is pretty hardcore.

The kid hasn't even been challenged yet. His second halves have been pretty uneventful. Sure there is reasoning for that as we had the leads but the point still stands that's he's not been asked to do much. I think right now we are in a honeymoon stage, hell I remember Mullens being compared to Favre. The kid is eventually going to be tested and for me, I need to see that before I get too overly enthused. He's played really damn well, no doubt, but let's see what happens when he gets down. Let's see what happens when the defense struggles.

Who said that about Mullens? His 1st start against a very poor defense was decent. But dude looked like garbage his 2nd and 3rd start.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

it's already been pointed out by Kurt Warner and others breaking down the film that Brock is moving to his 3rd / 4th read and not just taking the easy check downs. the second Kittle TD in SEA was his 4th read per Shanny.

do you even understand the Shanahan offense? this is it.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

The second Kittle TD was not designed for Kittle. Purdy went through the progression and found the open receiver and hit him on stride.

What more can you ask for a rookie QB on the first 3 games (excluding KC garbage time)? Even if you have a #1 pick QB, you should be encouraged and exciting for this kind of performance.

Its exciting but to me it's very Jimmy-esque. That is not a diss on him as I think Jimmy was playing really good football so it's more of a compliment but people are acting like Trey hasn't flashed some pretty good attributes as well. I hope I'm wrong but I think the immediate crowning of the guy and suddenly dismissing Trey is pretty hardcore.

The kid hasn't even been challenged yet. His second halves have been pretty uneventful. Sure there is reasoning for that as we had the leads but the point still stands that's he's not been asked to do much. I think right now we are in a honeymoon stage, hell I remember Mullens being compared to Favre. The kid is eventually going to be tested and for me, I need to see that before I get too overly enthused. He's played really damn well, no doubt, but let's see what happens when he gets down. Let's see what happens when the defense struggles.

One difference I see between Purdy and Lance, in their small sample, is that Lance will flash good coverage reads whereas reading the field well is part of Brock's skillset the moment he came off the bench.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Goatie:
That is a strawman response. At no stage have I have posted that Trey has reached his ceiling. Sure he will get better with experience. But he is not the best or second best QB on the roster right now. He will get better with experience. Whether he gets better than Purdy or JG who knows? But at the moment he is not the best candidate for starter. Purdy and JG are ahead of him. If JG goes somewhere else next year then he will be No2 behind Purdy baring any injury to Purdy. Shanahan and Lynch are not going risk the strength of the roster on Lance again while Purdy is still fit and capable.

So you want a guy cut who you don't feel has reached his ceiling?

He wants him traded lol. He doesn't understand how the salary cap works for players under contracts, even though it's been explained several times. Maybe somebody can really dumb it down for him and maybe then he'll get it.

You are clueless about what I understand or do not understand.

It is a pity you always try and descend into personalizing a debate because a person disagrees with you.

I used to have some respect for you but I have noticed that you continue to run people down and try and claim that they are less intelligent than you when they have a different opinion. Perhaps you should consider it reflects more poorly on you when you personalize debates and act all arrogant like you are some superior football oracle. You are not.

From what I've seen you posted at least 3 different times that we should trade Lance, even though each time it was explained to you why that's a terrible idea when you take your feelings out of it and look specifically at the numbers. But you need your attention, so f**k logic and reason lol.

And ya there's a handful of posters on here that just say the craziest things and that's mostly bc hot takes are awesome and they need their attention too. So when you align yourself with guys like Jose, SanDiego,jcs, ya prepare to get mocked, especially after you posted that crap comparing Jimmy's stats/wins to Joe and Steve.

Want people to not be a dick to you? Stop trolling, it's not hard.

Originally posted by thl408:
One difference I see between Purdy and Lance, in their small sample, is that Lance will flash good coverage reads whereas reading the field well is part of Brock's skillset the moment he came off the bench.

I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

it's already been pointed out by Kurt Warner and others breaking down the film that Brock is moving to his 3rd / 4th read and not just taking the easy check downs. the second Kittle TD in SEA was his 4th read per Shanny.

do you even understand the Shanahan offense? this is it.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by ItsX4Number6:
His 200 ypg? Yes. That can be replicated.

Hard to throw for more yards when it is blow out after blow out.

Look at ypa, checkdowns to CMC, throws under 10 yards, and designed TDs to Kittle. People are acting like Purdy was out there slinging when reality he hit mostly short routes and passes under 10 yards. Our defense is helping tremendously with blowouts, it's not like 21-13 was a complete blowout.

The second Kittle TD was not designed for Kittle. Purdy went through the progression and found the open receiver and hit him on stride.

What more can you ask for a rookie QB on the first 3 games (excluding KC garbage time)? Even if you have a #1 pick QB, you should be encouraged and exciting for this kind of performance.

Its exciting but to me it's very Jimmy-esque. That is not a diss on him as I think Jimmy was playing really good football so it's more of a compliment but people are acting like Trey hasn't flashed some pretty good attributes as well. I hope I'm wrong but I think the immediate crowning of the guy and suddenly dismissing Trey is pretty hardcore.

The kid hasn't even been challenged yet. His second halves have been pretty uneventful. Sure there is reasoning for that as we had the leads but the point still stands that's he's not been asked to do much. I think right now we are in a honeymoon stage, hell I remember Mullens being compared to Favre. The kid is eventually going to be tested and for me, I need to see that before I get too overly enthused. He's played really damn well, no doubt, but let's see what happens when he gets down. Let's see what happens when the defense struggles.

Mullens never won his first three games against reasonable defenses. He won his first game against the Raiders when they were at the bottom. There is no comparison between what Purdy has done and is doing to what Mullens did here. He was never QB who had the IT factor.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by thl408:
One difference I see between Purdy and Lance, in their small sample, is that Lance will flash good coverage reads whereas reading the field well is part of Brock's skillset the moment he came off the bench.

I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

The difference between a good player and an elite player is that innate ability - for all positions, maybe all professions.
I'm not saying Purdy has that innate ability, just that he has been consistently good at it. He's read zones, he's thrown against man while getting blitzed, he's been shown confusing fronts by the defense (MIA/TB), and through all this he's looked much more veteran-like than rookie-like.
Lance gets deer in the headlights moments while in the pocket. It all makes sense because of his inexperience in the dropback passing game. Many of his big pass plays at NDSU was off heavy playaction (back turned to play). The game still needs to slow down for Lance.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by thl408:
One difference I see between Purdy and Lance, in their small sample, is that Lance will flash good coverage reads whereas reading the field well is part of Brock's skillset the moment he came off the bench.

I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

It's definitely you got it or don't.. You can teach it some, but in the end that "natural ability" matters the most.

This is the NFL... To make it this far, all these guys at least have an amazing arm compared to other guys. Ya there's different levels of arm talent, but all these guys have at least enough arm talent to compete at this level.

What separates the good QB's from the other QB's, is mostly intangibles + work ethic.

Pocket presence is so important for a QB, and that's something hard to teach. Making split second decisions, is something you can't teach each either.

Once you make this far in the NFL, it's all about your brain for the most part.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:
Why? Because his ceiling and physical tools are limited, and Lance is the superior talent and athlete with a canon arm with all the same intangibles and leadership Brock brings.

You have no idea what intangibles and leadership ability Lance brings. To be fair, he hasn't played enough to prove it one way or the other. What we do know is that Purdy has a level of intangibles and leadership that is not common even in a veteran QB, much less a rookie. All the league is reveling in what he has shown. Other than giving Lance an opportunity to show what he can do in TC and preseason next year, he has shown nothing of those key components necessary to perform at a high level.

What we do know is that ShanaLynch invested 3 1st round picks and a 7th-round pick in the quest for a starting QB and a backup...and they were successful. The fact the roles were reversed is only incidental. The 49ers now have a high-quality starting QB and a backup they hope to develop to the point he can win some games if he is called on to do so.

I don't think the bolded is fair when specifically talking about intangibles and leadership. From all the reports from his teammates, interviews, and press conferences we've seen from Trey, he's a really mature young man and has a lot of the qualities you want to see from a franchise QB off the field.

On the field, I do think it's fair to say we haven't seen it yet. IMO Trey has yet to get into a passing rhythm and on the flip side, Purdy has shown that immediately and has stayed consistent.

I feel like we should all view this situation as a win-win, we have a very good starter in Purdy at the moment, and we have another more raw player in Trey that has the potential to be a very good player as well. Either way we will have a very good starter for years and we know our QBs get hurt a lot, so both should get playing time.

We don't disagree. My first paragraph noted that he hasn't shown enough yet to judge one way or the other. What you bolded was just me saying the same thing another way. My central point was disagreement with Ezekiel on his statement that Lance has all the intangibles and leadership that Purdy has shown. One has shown it in games. The other has yet to show it one way or the other.

I guess it was the phrasing that confused me: "he has shown nothing of those key components" makes it sound like you were making a conclusion about his intangibles, in that he doesn't have them.

To me, the most important variable in this discussion is winning, and so far, Trey has only 1 win while Purdy has 2 technically, but essentially 3. Because no matter how well Trey potentially could have played this season, whether that's statistically or just the eyeball test, he would not be accepted if he wasn't winning. That's just the reality of it. Especially when you had another QB in Jimmy that won a lot of games. I really try my best to isolate players from the team for my own personal evaluations, but again, the fans will not accept you if you lose, and Trey has lost 2 games and 1 game in relief of Jimmy. Fans don't care if you're the youngest QB in NFL history, or that you haven't played football in multiple years. 49ers fans are impatient and rightfully so given our SB drought.

I've always believed in Trey the prospect; I think he's one of the most impressive QBs from an off the field perspective as I've ever seen. The way he continually said the right things in the media and held himself accountable for the losses was impressive. He's essentially the opposite of Zach Wilson in that regard. I also don't think his record for most passing attempts without an interception in college was a fluke. From watching his film it was clear his mechanics needed work but he understood the importance of protecting the football which Kyle probably fell in love with. Not to mention the similar offense, and the fact that Trey at a very young age was tasked with calling the plays in the huddle, making checks at the line of scrimmage, playing under center, the impressive ability to sell play fakes and so on.

Even with my strong belief in Trey, Purdy has come in and changed my mindset TBH. Because IMO all of the valid criticisms I have for Jimmy haven't applied to Purdy so far. And he's doing things we saw in flashes from Trey, but at a more consistent rate. It's still a small sample size so I try to stay away from absolute claims, but Purdy appears to make plays during moments we would be punting otherwise. That doesn't mean Purdy is for sure better than Jimmy ATM or that Trey will never be as good or better, but I think we're beginning to see the best version of Kyle's offense in his 49er tenure.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

Processing coverages is a learned trait. You only get better by playing more. Brock showed up with 1,500 passing attempts and 4 yrs worth of starts.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
It's definitely you got it or don't.. You can teach it some, but in the end that "natural ability" matters the most.

This is the NFL... To make it this far, all these guys at least have an amazing arm compared to other guys. Ya there's different levels of arm talent, but all these guys have at least enough arm talent to compete at this level.

What separates the good QB's from the other QB's, is mostly intangibles + work ethic.

Pocket presence is so important for a QB, and that's something hard to teach. Making split second decisions, is something you can't teach each either.

Once you make this far in the NFL, it's all about your brain for the most part.

I agree, but I want to add one point. The ability of the QB to throw the ball with accuracy is also essential. A QB can do everything correct, understand the play, reading defense, make split second decision, but if he cannot get the ball to the receiver's hands, he got nothing.

It is great to see that Purdy has been so accurate on his throws in the last 3 games.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

Processing coverages is a learned trait. You only get better by playing more. Brock showed up with 1,500 passing attempts and 4 yrs worth of starts.

And that is way Lance was a bad pick - Because he lacks the experience to be NFL ready. It was ridiculous picking him so high

Originally posted by Goatie:
And that is way Lance was a bad pick - Because he lacks the experience to be NFL ready. It was ridiculous picking him so high

Lacking experience doesn't mean s**t when your goal is to have a FQB for the next decade. There was always gonna be a transition period, some fans refused to let that happen. Ya'll have no patience and it's sad. It's like you guys don't watch college football and see the overall lack of develop/reps happening.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:

I've always wondered if being able to progress through reads fast and decisive was something you either have or you don't, ya know? Not saying you can't improve on it or learn it, but you'll never be great at it if processing and making decisions isn't a natural ability you have. Or if anyone can be great at with enough practice.

i also don't mean people just go play football for the first time and can immediately read and progress through a defense. Just that either it's natural for you or it feels like a chore.

Processing coverages is a learned trait. You only get better by playing more. Brock showed up with 1,500 passing attempts and 4 yrs worth of starts.

But some don't ever get a lot better at it and others puck it up really quickly.