DeMeco Ryans, Texans HC

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Samson Ebukam on the difference in style between the Rams and 49ers for his DE position:

"With the Rams, I was reading. But here, it's just attack, don't read.

"I'm gonna have to make a 180 here. Attack, and the people behind me will clean it up."

— David Lombardi (@LombardiHimself) June 2, 2021

This is a nice vid on what the Rams did last season (Tite front, two gap). It's true what Samson said. (good part starts at @ 2:20)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKeEtHfY7PA

Wow, Thl, can we pin this? That Staley is one smart dude. 1st yr Rams DC gets him Charger HC. Not too shabby. He must be really sharp, like the Kyle of Ds.

As for the 4-3FAST, you did note which # the FAST was attached to? But i wasn't thinking the Brandon Staley D....like it was stated, not every team has a Donald that eats up two blockers nor do they have a Jalen Ramsey that absolutely takes their #1 WR out of the game. My thot was that Demeco was saying what has been noted above....we'd see more LB blitzing....or corners.

I linked the Rams video just to show what Samson was doing last season.

That is the one best vid i have seen in a long time. It is terrific...and so was the Rams D...with two 5 star players. That helped too. But i agree completely wtih your first post above. Demeco was talking (i think) about LBs/CB blitzing. We all wished we had seen more of that from Saleh. But he stayed pretty true to 4 man DL rush, straight up

oops...i miscalled Samson both Stanley and Staley. My mistakes. I'd still like to see this pinned for quick review. Watched it 6x already.

This is a continuation on the discussion about the Tite front and how Brandon Staley (LAC head coach) is about to start a league trend. This video is very well done and I recommend it. The video starts off talking about the 4-3 Cover 3 scheme and how the outside zone run scheme counters it.
It then talks about the Tite front with mention to how it counters the outside zone scheme that has spread around the league due to Kyle Shanahan's influence, how Chip Kelly used the Tite front at Oregon (with Armstead at 4i technique), and how Vic Fangio influenced the "gap and a half" concept. The video linked in the OP is good, but this video is better imo.


This is related to our DC because he has a chance to adopt new concepts into his defense, make it his own, and help modernize the 49ers defense. The 49ers offense is already seeing this in 2021. Without a doubt Kyle sees this and is adapting - he got himself a QB that can contribute to the run scheme, and a big guard to get more push up the middle (so far a meh pick, but that's for another thread). As we watch the 2021 season unfold, this is something I'll monitor in the 49er opponents.

Tite front on the 1st play from scrimmage 2021 week 3. What I can't tell is if the 3 DL are playing gap and a half.

Yeah, it's time to bring in Lance to change the math.

So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

Wow, that video is awesome and super informative. I hope that dude is getting paid because it probably took him weeks, maybe months, to make that video.

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

It seems like quick-hitting gap concepts would be the way to. OL being able to get off the ball and get on their blocks/get vertical immediately instead of having to double and climb.

I'm not X's and O's guy, it seems like counter plays and getting the QB involved in the run game would be a massive pain in the ass for a tite front.

Hmmm, I guess we know what to expect this Sunday.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Hmmm, I guess we know what to expect this Sunday.

First snap of the game Seahawks go into their falcon bear front and stuff the run! Jordyn Brooks on on edge, Ugo Amadi blitzing from nickel. Kerry Hyder Jr starting big end

— Matty F. Brown (@mattyfbrown) September 12, 2021

MIKE LB Bobby Wagner on how the #Seahawks' bear front usage impacts him: "It makes it a little bit slower, because you know, there's some moments where there's two-gapping so I can't really, you know, shoot the gap all the time." (1)

— Matty F. Brown (@mattyfbrown) September 22, 2021

Potential for the #Seahawks' full year of basing out of bear (called "Stick") is high!

1st play. At a glance: looks like a stick front

But it's 12 personnel... shaded NT tells you it's Stone Boston.

They have the LEO wide as disguise, then slant him inside + blitz SS off edge pic.twitter.com/Yl8eX9ZXzk

— Matty F. Brown (@mattyfbrown) August 16, 2021

This kind of stuff is very intriguing to me - league shift in tendencies. All these changes in fronts is being done to get into a lighter box (2 high safeties), to better defend the pass and the spread concepts. If random youtube guy sees this, Kyle saw this years ago.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Wow, that video is awesome and super informative. I hope that dude is getting paid because it probably took him weeks, maybe months, to make that video.

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

It seems like quick-hitting gap concepts would be the way to. OL being able to get off the ball and get on their blocks/get vertical immediately instead of having to double and climb.

I'm not X's and O's guy, it seems like counter plays and getting the QB involved in the run game would be a massive pain in the ass for a tite front.

It really is a well done video. I like the background he provides so he can show the evolution.
Getting the QB involved is the most obvious and impactful way to provide multiplicity and variation to a running game. As far as blocking concepts to combat this Tite front, there's a nice opening in between the 4i and the OLB, perhaps have a lead blocker through there (vertical blocking like you said) and punish that C gap. Perhaps more fullback usage to help bust through that first layer of defenders. Like most 5 man fronts, getting past that first layer is difficult but if you can do that, the potential for a large gain is possible. Two high safeties means there's more room to cover for that playside safety to get get downhill to help stuff the run. Whatever the adjustment is, I trust Kyle will be on it.

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

Good starting points:

Saints 38 -3 win over the Packers.
Vikings 30 - 17 win over the Seahawks
and our two wins over the 2020 Rams.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

Good starting points:

Saints 38 -3 win over the Packers.
Vikings 30 - 17 win over the Seahawks
and our two wins over the 2020 Rams.

I kind of remember the 2020 wins over the Rams. I remember the WR end arounds (shovel pitch to Deebo on jet motion) having success in how they were able to gain the edge faster than a typical outside zone running play with a RB. So basically, run away from the 3 IDL as fast as you can so that they are behind the play.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by thl408:
So let's move the discussion along. How does an outside zone scheme counter this Tite front, because that question is coming for all these offenses that have adopted the Shanahan version of outside zone. Kyle has gotten himself a QB that can allow him to play 11 v 11 in the running game. Is it trying to power through the B/C gaps with inside zone? More WR end arounds that try to capture the edge with more speed than what a RB can provide? Toss sweeps that try to avoid the "bear-like" front by out running those 3 IDL? This might belong in the Kyle thread but whatever.

Good starting points:

Saints 38 -3 win over the Packers.
Vikings 30 - 17 win over the Seahawks
and our two wins over the 2020 Rams.

I kind of remember the 2020 wins over the Rams. I remember the WR end arounds (shovel pitch to Deebo on jet motion) having success in how they were able to gain the edge faster than a typical outside zone running play with a RB. So basically, run away from the 3 IDL as fast as you can so that they are behind the play.

The Packers were using two players to set the edge to stop the WR runs.

Idea: Widen the WR splits, maybe even go no empty backfield while using Trey and jet/fly sweep motion to threaten the run.

Watching the All22 of the Vikings-Seahawks game. The Vikings screen game is on point. Counter run seems to work but outside zone and inside zone are getting shut down.

Edit: yep, Minnesota is all counters, cutbacks, and checkdowns. Kurt is using checkdowns to the RB as the first read ala Alex Smith.

how are you suppose to get to Rogers when he was constantly getting rid of the ball under 2 secs even if our pass rushers beat their guy it didn't matter.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
how are you suppose to get to Rogers when he was constantly getting rid of the ball under 2 secs even if our pass rushers beat their guy it didn't matter.

Pretty cool overlay with the snap to throw timer pic.twitter.com/Ty2OIjibQy

— Rich (@richjmadrid) September 30, 2021

Yea and Bosa still almost got to him. Why is Huf playing single high safety on this play? Was Ward playing CB? They gotta disguise man coverage a lot better than this. And they don't have the cb's to run single high safety going man across the board.

Watching a little bit more, our screen/RPO game worked well in the second half so did our gap scheme runs.

Brandon Staley's innovations revealed the next evolution of defense by Alex Rollins:



I knew I saw similar study before.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
how are you suppose to get to Rogers when he was constantly getting rid of the ball under 2 secs even if our pass rushers beat their guy it didn't matter.

Pretty cool overlay with the snap to throw timer pic.twitter.com/Ty2OIjibQy

— Rich (@richjmadrid) September 30, 2021

Why is a 4.7 rookie safety playing the single high? That formation also literally had our 5-9 Slot CB on a 6-5 giant.

Our matchups dictated how easy it was for Rodgers to just chuck it. I've seen too many mistakes like this from Demeco so far including the last drive that had rookies over Adams.