The Davis Mills Superfans Thread!

Originally posted by pd24:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Imagine thinking you're gonna get your FQB outside of the first 100 picks? Not very realistic...2 QBs in the playoffs drafted outside of the first 32 picks.

And one of those 2 won the Superbowl

Yeah we should conclude any QB we draft late on day 3 will turn into Tom Brady

Guess what we could have had him lol, that's what is even funnier

Originally posted by pd24:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Imagine thinking you're gonna get your FQB outside of the first 100 picks? Not very realistic...2 QBs in the playoffs drafted outside of the first 32 picks.

And one of those 2 won the Superbowl

Brady and Joe Montana are not the rule. They're the anomaly.

If you go into the draft looking to find another GOAT on day 2 or 3 then you're basically looking to fail.

Originally posted by genus49:
Brady and Joe Montana are not the rule. They're the anomaly.

If you go into the draft looking to find another GOAT on day 2 or 3 then you're basically looking to fail.

That's all I'm saying

Nobody is going to the draft looking for the GOAT. You ID the ones that fit your system and sometimes you win some and you lose some. Look at just the history of this current regime in general when it comes to drafting. They drafted some busts like Solly, Foster, Pettis, Mcglinchey(maybe) but then find some gems at later rounds like Kittle, Warner, Greenlaw. Even QB in general is also not a sure thing. Sure you get the franchise altering picks like Mahomes, Watson, Manning, Rodgers etc. But then you have busts or just serviceable ones like Trubisky, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Gabbert, Darnold, Goff, Wentz etc. You also find some truly steals or a decent starter after the first like R Wilson, D Carr, K Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. You can go through other positions as well and its the same theme. You hope that you pick the right player and he develops. Nothing is absolute in the draft when it comes to QB. Its such a crapshoot so who knows really?

Originally posted by frankieuc68:
Nobody is going to the draft looking for the GOAT. You ID the ones that fit your system and sometimes you win some and you lose some. Look at just the history of this current regime in general when it comes to drafting. They drafted some busts like Solly, Foster, Pettis, Mcglinchey(maybe) but then find some gems at later rounds like Kittle, Warner, Greenlaw. Even QB in general is also not a sure thing. Sure you get the franchise altering picks like Mahomes, Watson, Manning, Rodgers etc. But then you have busts or just serviceable ones like Trubisky, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Gabbert, Darnold, Goff, Wentz etc. You also find some truly steals or a decent starter after the first like R Wilson, D Carr, K Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. You can go through other positions as well and its the same theme. You hope that you pick the right player and he develops. Nothing is absolute in the draft when it comes to QB. Its such a crapshoot so who knows really?

Agree, ill just add that the coach matters too. If you look at all the hall of fame football coaches, they are all usually associated with hall of fame QBs.

Good coaches can spot a QB that will fit his *system* and build a team around that QB to enable that QB to win. I think QB is probably the hardest position to project and evaluate from college because its 90% intangibles that make a successful QB.

I think one of the keys to getting a Franchise QB is getting a good football coach.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree, ill just add that the coach matters too. If you look at all the hall of fame football coaches, they are all usually associated with hall of fame QBs.

Good coaches can spot a QB that will fit his *system* and build a team around that QB to enable that QB to win. I think QB is probably the hardest position to project and evaluate from college because its 90% intangibles that make a successful QB.

I think one of the keys to getting a Franchise QB is getting a good football coach.

Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs. But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

Originally posted by frankieuc68:
Nobody is going to the draft looking for the GOAT. You ID the ones that fit your system and sometimes you win some and you lose some. Look at just the history of this current regime in general when it comes to drafting. They drafted some busts like Solly, Foster, Pettis, Mcglinchey(maybe) but then find some gems at later rounds like Kittle, Warner, Greenlaw. Even QB in general is also not a sure thing. Sure you get the franchise altering picks like Mahomes, Watson, Manning, Rodgers etc. But then you have busts or just serviceable ones like Trubisky, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Gabbert, Darnold, Goff, Wentz etc. You also find some truly steals or a decent starter after the first like R Wilson, D Carr, K Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. You can go through other positions as well and its the same theme. You hope that you pick the right player and he develops. Nothing is absolute in the draft when it comes to QB. Its such a crapshoot so who knows really?

If they truly want to upgrade the QB position, going 2nd/3rd tier isn't the way to go about it imo.

look at who was in the playoffs this yr....you want your dude at QB it's more than likely gonna cost you.

I agree it's a crap shoot, might as well go for the best talent.

Originally posted by frankieuc68:
Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs. But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

At one pt Wentz was playing at a MVP level. Philly is a mess. Goff won a ton of games, they just had a chance to get a guy with HOF talent.

Originally posted by frankieuc68:

Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs.[b] [u]But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

Walsh didn't pick Carmazzi, Mariucci (and Terry Donahue?) wanted him. Walsh was GM in name only. Walsh didn't like Carmazzi and had them pick Tim Rattay in the 6th who was better than Carmazzi, but Walsh did miss Brady

Shanahan did reach for Beathard, he LOVED him. WTH! At one point he said the 49ers had 'one of the best QB groups in the NFL, 3 starters' in JG, Beathard and Mullens. So Shanahan has been bad at QB eval. I hope he consults with some great QB scouts in this draft.

Bill Walsh was definitely onboard with Carmazzi: "That was one of our better choices."

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by frankieuc68:
Nobody is going to the draft looking for the GOAT. You ID the ones that fit your system and sometimes you win some and you lose some. Look at just the history of this current regime in general when it comes to drafting. They drafted some busts like Solly, Foster, Pettis, Mcglinchey(maybe) but then find some gems at later rounds like Kittle, Warner, Greenlaw. Even QB in general is also not a sure thing. Sure you get the franchise altering picks like Mahomes, Watson, Manning, Rodgers etc. But then you have busts or just serviceable ones like Trubisky, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Gabbert, Darnold, Goff, Wentz etc. You also find some truly steals or a decent starter after the first like R Wilson, D Carr, K Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. You can go through other positions as well and its the same theme. You hope that you pick the right player and he develops. Nothing is absolute in the draft when it comes to QB. Its such a crapshoot so who knows really?

If they truly want to upgrade the QB position, going 2nd/3rd tier isn't the way to go about it imo.

look at who was in the playoffs this yr....you want your dude at QB it's more than likely gonna cost you.

I agree it's a crap shoot, might as well go for the best talent.

Yeah, I don't mind trading up for sure but then I won't close the door just because he was a 3rd rounder either. I just hope that we pick the right one and they develop. Looks like the team has enough pass protection (I hope) with the return of TW and the signing of AM. If they can add couple more studs in that unit along with our weapons I think whoever gets drafted (Lance, Jones etc.) will be in a good spot.

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Originally posted by frankieuc68:
Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs.[b] [u]But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought

). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

Walsh didn't pick Carmazzi, Mariucci (and Terry Donahue?) wanted him. Walsh was GM in name only. Walsh didn't like Carmazzi and had them pick Tim Rattay in the 6th who was better than Carmazzi, but Walsh did miss Brady

Shanahan did reach for Beathard, he LOVED him. WTH! At one point he said the 49ers had 'one of the best QB groups in the NFL, 3 starters' in JG, Beathard and Mullens. So Shanahan has been bad at QB eval. I hope he consults with some great QB scouts in this draft.

I forgot about that if that was the whole story. Yeah.. Shanahan will be Shanahan and when it comes to the QB, we just hope he choose the right one 😁

Originally posted by frankieuc68:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree, ill just add that the coach matters too. If you look at all the hall of fame football coaches, they are all usually associated with hall of fame QBs.

Good coaches can spot a QB that will fit his *system* and build a team around that QB to enable that QB to win. I think QB is probably the hardest position to project and evaluate from college because its 90% intangibles that make a successful QB.

I think one of the keys to getting a Franchise QB is getting a good football coach.

Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs. But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

Well your original point was spot on. Choosing a QB is more luck than skill, and the coaches that find a Tom Brady or Joe Montana are as lucky (I think) as they are skilled.

QBs like Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman - didn't have initial success, but they eventually did because a good coach built a team around them. Roger Staubach already had a good team before he became the starting QB, but thier record didn't show it. Same with Brady and Tampa Bay, good team but it took Brady to gel the team and make it a champion.

I think the worst thing you can do to a QB is constantly change his coach or offensive system (Alex smith and Josh Rosen come to mind). A good coach with a good offensive system increases the odds of finding a franchise QB.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frankieuc68:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree, ill just add that the coach matters too. If you look at all the hall of fame football coaches, they are all usually associated with hall of fame QBs.

Good coaches can spot a QB that will fit his *system* and build a team around that QB to enable that QB to win. I think QB is probably the hardest position to project and evaluate from college because its 90% intangibles that make a successful QB.

I think one of the keys to getting a Franchise QB is getting a good football coach.

Yeah.. tend to agree. But then some of the great coaches have their own misses right. Walsh had Montana and Young (by way of trade) were home runs. But then he picked Carmazzi instead of Brady (who would have thought). Kyle "reached" for Beathard even for a third and didn't seem to develop after 4 years. Even if he turns out as a good backup at the most, it would have been worth it IMO. But now, we're most likely moving on from him. It happens to every team. Look what happened to the massive Goff and Wentz trade up not too long ago. The price you pay if it works out, it's awesome. And if doesn't ...

Well your original point was spot on. Choosing a QB is more luck than skill, and the coaches that find a Tom Brady or Joe Montana are as lucky (I think) as they are skilled.

QBs like Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman - didn't have initial success, but they eventually did because a good coach built a team around them. Roger Staubach already had a good team before he became the starting QB, but thier record didn't show it. Same with Brady and Tampa Bay, good team but it took Brady to gel the team and make it a champion.

I think the worst thing you can do to a QB is constantly change his coach or offensive system (Alex smith and Josh Rosen come to mind). A good coach with a good offensive system increases the odds of finding a franchise QB.

Great point! The line is slowly taking shape so hopefully that helps our QB moving forward.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Bill Walsh was definitely onboard with Carmazzi: "That was one of our better choices."

20 years ago today, 2000 NFL draft... 49ers GM Bill Walsh is thrilled that Hofstra's Giovanni Carmazzi was still available at pick #65.

Tom Brady was taken 134 picks later.

Steve Mariucci knew right away that Carmazzi wasn't the guy. He never appeared in a regular-season game. pic.twitter.com/dlAkkQin9H

— Funhouse (@BackAftaThis) April 16, 2020

Great video, thanks
Goes to show you that physical skill is only half the equation, just as important are the mental skills. That's why Trey Lance is such a crap shoot and will probably slide