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DK Metcalf

Originally posted by bigwads:
But they all have great WR's, right? We don't have an argument. The point is they have great players and whether we are drafting great players. If you have a great WR talent that you could draft are you saying you wouldn't draft him because of the reasons you mentioned?

Rice- 1st rounder btw

No. he's saying the teams you're talking about that are dominating in the box score offensively, didn't HAVE to draft WRs in the top 10. When you have a great QB and offensive minded playcaller you've already got a leg up on everything. Look at the Rams yes they spent a 1st (in a trade) for Cooks, but cooper and woods have been freaking awesome for them (neither are 1st rd picks). Look at the Chiefs, hill was a 5th rd pick and Kelce was was a 3rd rd pick. Saints top WR Thomas was a 2nd rd pick. Brees was throwing TDs Thursday to a bunch of no names. Who's the stud 1st rd picks the Pats drafted?

I want a great WR just as much as anyone else, I get it, it's the sexy pick and we all play fantasy football...this draft is setup to finally give us a true edge rusher that can transform the defense.

Edge>WR in this draft without question.
Originally posted by bigwads:
If you can't even get to 40 you aren't even in the game. The NFL has been legislating defense out of the game for 10 years. Stop fighting the current.

Get a good pass rush and superstars on offense.

Only no team in the nfl is scoring 40 pts per game.
Originally posted by bigwads:
If you can't even get to 40 you aren't even in the game. The NFL has been legislating defense out of the game for 10 years. Stop fighting the current.

Get a good pass rush and superstars on offense.



If you can't stop even mediocre QBs from picking you apart, you can forget about any playoff aspirations.


The bottomline is that there is still a need for good defense. People need to stop reacting to short term trends. Its not that long ago that Denver and Seatle won on the backs of their defense. If anything, with these super offenses it is more imperative to put together defenses that can get stops and create turnovers.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by bigwads:
If you can't even get to 40 you aren't even in the game. The NFL has been legislating defense out of the game for 10 years. Stop fighting the current.

Get a good pass rush and superstars on offense.


If you can't stop even mediocre QBs from picking you apart, you can forget about any playoff aspirations.

The bottomline is that there is still a need for good defense. People need to stop reacting to short term trends. Its not that long ago that Denver and Seatle won on the backs of their defense. If anything, with these super offenses it is more imperative to put together defenses that can get stops and create turnovers.

Not stops, you need a defense that can create turnovers. But the defense still needs to be somewhat coherent and solid. Unlike the multiple bonehead plays we still to come up with.
Originally posted by Stanley:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by bigwads:
If you can't even get to 40 you aren't even in the game. The NFL has been legislating defense out of the game for 10 years. Stop fighting the current.

Get a good pass rush and superstars on offense.


If you can't stop even mediocre QBs from picking you apart, you can forget about any playoff aspirations.

The bottomline is that there is still a need for good defense. People need to stop reacting to short term trends. Its not that long ago that Denver and Seatle won on the backs of their defense. If anything, with these super offenses it is more imperative to put together defenses that can get stops and create turnovers.

Not stops, you need a defense that can create turnovers. But the defense still needs to be somewhat coherent and solid. Unlike the multiple bonehead plays we still to come up with.

Yup and what gets turnovers? Pressure on the QB
Broken foot his freshman yr as well

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by bigwads:
But they all have great WR's, right? We don't have an argument. The point is they have great players and whether we are drafting great players. If you have a great WR talent that you could draft are you saying you wouldn't draft him because of the reasons you mentioned?

Rice- 1st rounder btw

No. he's saying the teams you're talking about that are dominating in the box score offensively, didn't HAVE to draft WRs in the top 10. When you have a great QB and offensive minded playcaller you've already got a leg up on everything. Look at the Rams yes they spent a 1st (in a trade) for Cooks, but cooper and woods have been freaking awesome for them (neither are 1st rd picks). Look at the Chiefs, hill was a 5th rd pick and Kelce was was a 3rd rd pick. Saints top WR Thomas was a 2nd rd pick. Brees was throwing TDs Thursday to a bunch of no names. Who's the stud 1st rd picks the Pats drafted?

I want a great WR just as much as anyone else, I get it, it's the sexy pick and we all play fantasy football...this draft is setup to finally give us a true edge rusher that can transform the defense.

Edge>WR in this draft without question.

The point of not having to draft a WR in the first round is stipulated (this is why I said we aren't in an argument)-but that rule exists for every position. You don't "have to" draft RB's or QB's or LB's or any position group. What you "have to" do is draft players who are good.

I do recall Bill Polian saying that the Colts would only draft players in the first round who either: 1. rushed the passer, or 2. touched the ball i.e. WR, RB, QB, or, 3. those who covered those to touched the ball i.e. CB's. And, this was before the NFL started legislating defense out of the game.

If you want to ask about what I think is paramount in draft philosophy it is one simple rule-don't draft busts in the first round-period. Secondly, I would fall into the Polian like camp. However, great teams have deviated from the Polian rule like New England. Historically, when lookinat at the best teams over many years they simply don't draft busts. For them, it didn't matter if they took guards or centers, but those picks better be HOF's or close to it.

Naturally, I think if you had a choice you would rather draft position groups that have more impact on the game, of course. But, if you look at the best teams and take a look at their drafts, they simply don't make Solomon Thomas like picks. Lynch's first pick was a huge disaster, because he violated every major rule (and this isn't Monday morning quarterbacking-it was a bad pick when it was made). Thomas did not fit the scheme, played the same position as Buckner but Buckner was a better player, they moved his position forcing him to learn a new position and basically had no role on the team unless he could transfer to rushing from the outside, but there was no film of him doing that. He could play the DE spot in a big nickel type of role where he was there to stop the run, but that isn't what our FO did-the have done everything wrong with Thomas. Despite them doing everything wrong, he was still the wrong person to take.

The added wrinkle to the above is the simply point that the NFL is changing, because the rules are changing. We are having the best teams in the league scoring over 30, 40 and now 50 pts individually against each other in the same game.

I am intrigued by Bosa and Clelin Ferrell in this draft. I would probably take either of them over any other players including Metcalf. I love Ferrell's production over many years. If his measurables pan out at the combine I may like him more than Bosa even. But absent those two players, Metcalf is a freaking star, and don't even compare a star in the SEC with Sutton...cmon.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by bigwads:
If you can't even get to 40 you aren't even in the game. The NFL has been legislating defense out of the game for 10 years. Stop fighting the current.

Get a good pass rush and superstars on offense.


If you can't stop even mediocre QBs from picking you apart, you can forget about any playoff aspirations.

The bottomline is that there is still a need for good defense. People need to stop reacting to short term trends. Its not that long ago that Denver and Seatle won on the backs of their defense. If anything, with these super offenses it is more imperative to put together defenses that can get stops and create turnovers.

Defense wins in one-off years. They don't have sustained success any more, and really never did. Offense wins year over year over year. No question that DE's and pass rush are our number one need. We better add a serious name in FA and one in the draft or this FO is freaking incompetent.

Dream draft: first pick Bosa or Ferrell, and then trade back even into the top ten again and get Metcalf. I would then sign a bunch of defensive players in FA.
Originally posted by bigwads:
The point of not having to draft a WR in the first round is stipulated (this is why I said we aren't in an argument)-but that rule exists for every position. You don't "have to" draft RB's or QB's or LB's or any position group. What you "have to" do is draft players who are good.

I do recall Bill Polian saying that the Colts would only draft players in the first round who either: 1. rushed the passer, or 2. touched the ball i.e. WR, RB, QB, or, 3. those who covered those to touched the ball i.e. CB's. And, this was before the NFL started legislating defense out of the game.

If you want to ask about what I think is paramount in draft philosophy it is one simple rule-don't draft busts in the first round-period. Secondly, I would fall into the Polian like camp. However, great teams have deviated from the Polian rule like New England. Historically, when lookinat at the best teams over many years they simply don't draft busts. For them, it didn't matter if they took guards or centers, but those picks better be HOF's or close to it.

Naturally, I think if you had a choice you would rather draft position groups that have more impact on the game, of course. But, if you look at the best teams and take a look at their drafts, they simply don't make Solomon Thomas like picks. Lynch's first pick was a huge disaster, because he violated every major rule (and this isn't Monday morning quarterbacking-it was a bad pick when it was made). Thomas did not fit the scheme, played the same position as Buckner but Buckner was a better player, they moved his position forcing him to learn a new position and basically had no role on the team unless he could transfer to rushing from the outside, but there was no film of him doing that. He could play the DE spot in a big nickel type of role where he was there to stop the run, but that isn't what our FO did-the have done everything wrong with Thomas. Despite them doing everything wrong, he was still the wrong person to take.

The added wrinkle to the above is the simply point that the NFL is changing, because the rules are changing. We are having the best teams in the league scoring over 30, 40 and now 50 pts individually against each other in the same game.

I am intrigued by Bosa and Clelin Ferrell in this draft. I would probably take either of them over any other players including Metcalf. I love Ferrell's production over many years. If his measurables pan out at the combine I may like him more than Bosa even. But absent those two players, Metcalf is a freaking star, and don't even compare a star in the SEC with Sutton...cmon.

All I said about Sutton was he was regarded as the best WR for like a yr and ended up going in the 2nd. When it comes to WRs overall I don't care if you played in the SEC or WAC if you can play you can play.

I love me some DK, but he's been plagued with injuries (neck and broken foot freshmen yr) He's a athletic freak love to have him BUT he's got health issues and I wouldn't say he's the best route-runner in the world either. Hasn't had much time to develop because he's been hurt so much.

IF you're a bill Polian follower then edge rusher is a must and imo there's a couple very good ones in the draft.

The reason people bring up these team's WRs is to simply stating you don't need the biggest freak most athletic guy (worth a 1st) to have a top end offense. You need a QB and a great playcaller. You need a good OL. The WR position is the most dependent position in football imo.

If we can't land Bosa I'm looking at Ferrel or trading down. If we need up with DK (who I don't think will be a top 10 player) awesome they'd better move back up and get a edge rusher though.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Defense wins in one-off years. They don't have sustained success any more, and really never did. Offense wins year over year over year. No question that DE's and pass rush are our number one need. We better add a serious name in FA and one in the draft or this FO is freaking incompetent.

Dream draft: first pick Bosa or Ferrell, and then trade back even into the top ten again and get Metcalf. I would then sign a bunch of defensive players in FA.

I mean everyone talks about New England and their offense but go look at how many pts that defense allowed over the yrs. look at Seattle and Denver.

I mean who was the last team that won the super purely because they had an amazing offense with a bad defense.

Again not arguing about DK I just think you need to have some sort of defense to be success in this league putting up pts is fun but you won't win it all.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Nov 24, 2018 at 11:09 AM ]

The more I read about this kid the more I think there is no shot he drops out of the top 20 if his medicals show nothing..
Originally posted by jersey49er:
The more I read about this kid the more I think there is no shot he drops out of the top 20 if his medicals show nothing..

Yeah I was pretty much trying to tell myself he would lol...I think medical will be an issue I didn't know he has a broken foot his freshmen yr.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by jersey49er:
The more I read about this kid the more I think there is no shot he drops out of the top 20 if his medicals show nothing..

Yeah I was pretty much trying to tell myself he would lol...I think medical will be an issue I didn't know he has a broken foot his freshmen yr.

Have you followed him from his freshman year Bc I honestly haven't heard much of him besides this year, Brown was the supposedly stud that was highlighted mostly..
So far I see posters wanting Bosa, Ferrell, Polite, Metcalf and a few other wide outs and corners. It would be nice if we could get them all but realistically we will probably only get one. The other teams are looking at the same guys as we are with the exception of teams needing a QB. This year there aren't many QB's coming out that are really worth a high pick so a lot of the guys we would want are going to get scooped up. Some mocks I have seen have only one QB going in the first since most teams already have their young franchise guy.
Originally posted by bigwads:
But they all have great WR's, right? We don't have an argument. The point is they have great players and whether we are drafting great players. If you have a great WR talent that you could draft are you saying you wouldn't draft him because of the reasons you mentioned?

Rice- 1st rounder btw

Point was you can field a terrific team/offense without drafting WR super early.

And we took Rice when we had few other needs and we're already SB winners.

I trust Kyle to produce a good offense with Jimmy regardless of who we have at WR. Can't say the same for our defense and certainly not with Saleh.
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