Malik Hooker S Ohio State

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by valrod33:
He will retire after his rookie contract, when things get rough his first instinct is to quit which he has no problem doing since he doesnt even like football

Lol. Where did you read this fantasy novel?

Click the video I posted

I did. Is there a part 2 I'm missing.

OT: do you still live in NM? If so, what part?

North of Espanola

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

It is only logical to compare our defensive personnel to Pete's as that's who our DC learned under.

Gus Bradley as head coach:
2013: Drafted an OT. A highly touted one. There were no top 5 talents at safety this year, with elite prospects at OT all through the first round. 5 went in top 20. Oh, and 4 safeties did go in on the top 34 picks. Do you think there are any OT in this draft worth a top 5?

2014: took a QB. Do you want a qb at 2 this year?

2015:took arguably the highest rated prospect outside of QB. Randall was the first safety selected, not nearly the talent of hooker or adams.

2016: took the consensus #1 rated prospect.

Quinn:

2015: didn't have a top 5 pick. Took Beasley. Again, no hooker level prospect available.

2016: didn't have a top 5 pick. Did use the first pick on safety.


Just because these coaches didn't take a safety top 5 means nothing...they didn't have talent like hooker available. It's obviously a bit unconventional to take a safety at 2, but how can it possibly be that big of a stretch when pretty much EVERYONE has two safeties going top 10?!

Quinn took a SS...if a single high safety is the backbone of this defense then why didn't they move up for the top safety? Why didn't either make a move for the top FS in FA? Maybe because there's more than one way to be successful in this D. Why can't Ward be at least a Ricardo Allen type FS? IMO he's not a lockdown outside CB and has played out of position since being drafted.

Right they have two safeties going top 10, yet we have the 2nd overall pick...not 6 not 8 not 10...why do most draft analysts have Solomon as the 2nd overall pick? Because he plays a more important position and is f**king damn good. We aren't in a position to be drafting luxury picks like a safety. Go look around the league and when the top safeties were drafted. Get the best prospect available because we need help everywhere.

There's been one safety drafted at two since 1990 you telling me hooker is the best safety to come out in 25+ yrs? He's injured, had one yr of experience, not a great tackler (E Thomas is ), and people question his passion for the game...if you're drafting a safety at two he'd better be flawless and he's not.

If we trade down sure make the move if not pass

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Quinn took a SS...if a single high safety is the backbone of this defense then why didn't they move up for the top safety? Why didn't either make a move for the top FS in FA? Maybe because there's more than one way to be successful in this D. Why can't Ward be at least a Ricardo Allen type FS? IMO he's not a lockdown outside CB and has played out of position since being drafted.

Right they have two safeties going top 10, yet we have the 2nd overall pick...not 6 not 8 not 10...why do most draft analysts have Solomon as the 2nd overall pick? Because he plays a more important position and is f**king damn good. We aren't in a position to be drafting luxury picks like a safety. Go look around the league and when the top safeties were drafted. Get the best prospect available because we need help everywhere.

There's been one safety drafted at two since 1990 you telling me hooker is the best safety to come out in 25+ yrs? He's injured, had one yr of experience, not a great tackler (E Thomas is ), and people question his passion for the game...if you're drafting a safety at two he'd better be flawless and he's not.

If we trade down sure make the move if not pass

This...big time.

No question the kid has great athletic ability but the inexperience and someone who counts so much on his speed and instincts to do the job has to be perfect in the NFL. That's a lot of assumptions and projection for a #2 overall pick.

Forget the injuries, the questions regarding passion for the game just look at the tape. No question the kid is a great cover safety and has great athletic ability to make some big splash plays...but poor tacking technique, bad angles, missed tackles or arm tackles is not what you want to see in a #2 overall player.

In a league where guys are bigger, stronger and faster players need to have more than great athletic ability and instincts. Hell Hooker isn't even that fast he's just able to play off the QB and make plays on the ball. Well NFL QBs do a hell of a lot better job looking off their receivers. If he's sitting there trying to read Tom Brady's eyes good luck catching up to the play when Tom throws it quick to the other side of the field.

Earl Thomas had 2 years to prove his abilities and show he's not a one year wonder. I wish Hooker was able to workout at the combine so we could compare their 40 times and athletic drills but Thomas looks much faster than Hooker.

Would I be ok with Hooker? Yes, though I'd be annoyed we took him that high. Would I be praying that everything goes perfect for his progression as a player? Of course.

I'm curious if we were picking 3rd instead of 2nd and Myles Garrett and Solomon Thomas went one and two who are you guys taking?

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
I'm curious if we were picking 3rd instead of 2nd and Myles Garrett and Solomon Thomas went one and two who are you guys taking?

I'd probably take Lattimore though honestly that thought sickens me too. I'm terrified of the two OSU DBs. So much potential but way too much bust potential for my liking.

After Thomas the guy I think is the safest pick is Jamal Adams...but SS in the top 5 is just not something I can get behind...unless forced to.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

I'm curious if we were picking 3rd instead of 2nd and Myles Garrett and Solomon Thomas went one and two who are you guys taking?

CB but Latt has question marks just the same.

I'd look long and hard at Allen/Barnett as well

Good thing is we aren't

Originally posted by genus49:

This...big time.

No question the kid has great athletic ability but the inexperience and someone who counts so much on his speed and instincts to do the job has to be perfect in the NFL. That's a lot of assumptions and projection for a #2 overall pick.

Forget the injuries, the questions regarding passion for the game just look at the tape. No question the kid is a great cover safety and has great athletic ability to make some big splash plays...but poor tacking technique, bad angles, missed tackles or arm tackles is not what you want to see in a #2 overall player.

In a league where guys are bigger, stronger and faster players need to have more than great athletic ability and instincts. Hell Hooker isn't even that fast he's just able to play off the QB and make plays on the ball. Well NFL QBs do a hell of a lot better job looking off their receivers. If he's sitting there trying to read Tom Brady's eyes good luck catching up to the play when Tom throws it quick to the other side of the field.

Earl Thomas had 2 years to prove his abilities and show he's not a one year wonder. I wish Hooker was able to workout at the combine so we could compare their 40 times and athletic drills but Thomas looks much faster than Hooker.

Would I be ok with Hooker? Yes, though I'd be annoyed we took him that high. Would I be praying that everything goes perfect for his progression as a player? Of course.

Totally agree...I question the one yr of starting experience as well. If he was on the same level as Thomas/Reed (who were muilple yr starters) why didn't he start until this season? Because of Vonn Bell? who was a 2nd rd pick and helped the saints with the 32nd ranked pass D and was the 50th ranked S this past yr.

End of the day I can live with the hooker pick(would be bummed for sure), but it would be corny as s**t that our former safety turned GM took a S with the 2nd overall pick (which hasn't been done since 1990)....id much rather see Ward get a shot at his most natural position and get a FA next yr if it doesn't work.

So then we all agree that Malik Hooker isn't so much a stretch at 2 if shanny and lynch don't think quite as highly of Thomas as you do. It's a perfect storm, a rare FS prospect in a draft with question marks at every single pick (yes, including the tweener thomas.) Would hooker go top 5 in any other draft? Maybe not, but this year, it's fair game at the top 10-15 prospects. We could have 3 OT taken in the first this year, or 0. There might be 3 qb taken in the top 10, or the first one not coming off the board til 12. It's just an odd draft.

Hooker is new to the sport. They may have seen the talent, but decided to start the kid who's played safety longer. Hooker will no doubt need to continue to learn the position, and football in general as he enters the NFL, but we're gambling on his intangibles. Same way were gambling that Thomas intangibles will allow him to be successful adding weight and going against NFL online talent. I think both are sure bets. I just think interior linemen can be had more often than an all pro level talent at FS.

Atl, Jax, and Sea have all put extreme emphasis on the secondary I think you guys are getting carried way on the single high safety aspect. It can be a lockdown corner, ranging safety either way it's a passing league and you need talent back there. Just moving parts with your average corner/ safety isn't going to get it done. It's also naive to think that a good pass rush with no ends btw will just mask a sh secondary. Ed Reed had 4.57 speed it's the ability to diagnose the play that puts Hooker in position. Hooker's playmaking range isn't a concern it's his tackling and his overall play. I just don't see him flying around the ball except in pick situations. I got nothing against taking a s at 2, if KC can take Berry at 5 and come out better than McCoy at 3 shut up about the importance of the position. Any way you build you need other talent all around and that's my big argument against Thomas. We already have a great interior prospect. In the end though I see Hooker as Reggie Nelson and that's not worth a 2 I'm passing on him 2.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

I got nothing against taking a s at 2, if KC can take Berry at 5 and come out better than McCoy at 3 shut up about the imprtance of the importance of the position.

I agree with most of your argument, but this point is ridiculous. I can find examples of FBs and kickers who had more productive careers than Jamarcus Russell. That's not a reason to pick a FB or K at #1.

Even if there are a couple safeties in history who would be a top 5 pick in their draft in a re-draft, there's no guarantee that Hooker becomes one of them.

I'm on board with either Solomon Thomas or Malik Hooker in this particular draft. In most drafts, they wouldn't even be in consideration for the #2 pick though.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Quinn took a SS...if a single high safety is the backbone of this defense then why didn't they move up for the top safety? Why didn't either make a move for the top FS in FA? Maybe because there's more than one way to be successful in this D. Why can't Ward be at least a Ricardo Allen type FS? IMO he's not a lockdown outside CB and has played out of position since being drafted.

Ricardo Allen. Meh. 2 years ago, 49th ranked safety. Last year, 37th. Can Ward be at least that? Possibly. Is that what we're looking forward to?

If Ward lights it up and shocks us all in a week, and convinces the coaching staff that he's got what it takes to be our Single High FS, then Hooker's need Plummets. A lot of interesting things the coaches will hopefully be able to ascertain:

• Can Ward be our Single High FS?
• Does AA look like he's our starting 3T/5T?
• Does Lynch look like our "Elephant", or more like an elephant?
• Does Mitchell look like he can man the 1T NT?

I don't know how much they'll be able to see from the offseason workouts, but if they could get answers to any of those questions, it'd be huge.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

So then we all agree that Malik Hooker isn't so much a stretch at 2 if shanny and lynch don't think quite as highly of Thomas as you do. It's a perfect storm, a rare FS prospect in a draft with question marks at every single pick (yes, including the tweener thomas.) Would hooker go top 5 in any other draft? Maybe not, but this year, it's fair game at the top 10-15 prospects. We could have 3 OT taken in the first this year, or 0. There might be 3 qb taken in the top 10, or the first one not coming off the board til 12. It's just an odd draft.

Hooker is new to the sport. They may have seen the talent, but decided to start the kid who's played safety longer. Hooker will no doubt need to continue to learn the position, and football in general as he enters the NFL, but we're gambling on his intangibles. Same way were gambling that Thomas intangibles will allow him to be successful adding weight and going against NFL online talent. I think both are sure bets. I just think interior linemen can be had more often than an all pro level talent at FS.

Excellent post, this is a draft of projections based on traits, even Garrett will be drafted top based on his measurables and potential over his production.

IMO the only "pro ready" productive players with elite traits are Allen, Fournette & Adams. It's ok to draft for potential if you do your homework, college and the NFL are now so different you can't rely on college performance as an accurate guide anyway

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Ricardo Allen. Meh. 2 years ago, 49th ranked safety. Last year, 37th. Can Ward be at least that? Possibly. Is that what we're looking forward to?

If Ward lights it up and shocks us all in a week, and convinces the coaching staff that he's got what it takes to be our Single High FS, then Hooker's need Plummets. A lot of interesting things the coaches will hopefully be able to ascertain:

• Can Ward be our Single High FS?
• Does AA look like he's our starting 3T/5T?
• Does Lynch look like our "Elephant", or more like an elephant?
• Does Mitchell look like he can man the 1T NT?

I don't know how much they'll be able to see from the offseason workouts, but if they could get answers to any of those questions, it'd be huge.

Actually he was the 23rd ranked safety this yr (per PFF) and 12th overall in coverage...if we're talking about FS who can cover and not be a monster in run support (which is what hooker is currently) those are pretty good rankings...I will add Ward was a very solid in run support as a S in college...He was a more consistent tackler then hooker.

It will be interesting to see what happens, but I think we are set at FS with Ward.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Excellent post, this is a draft of projections based on traits, even Garrett will be drafted top based on his measurables and potential over his production.

IMO the only "pro ready" productive players with elite traits are Allen, Fournette & Adams. It's ok to draft for potential if you do your homework, college and the NFL are now so different you can't rely on college performance as an accurate guide anyway

Don't be ridiculous. Garrett has 3 dominating years of tape AND projection based on traits.

There is a big difference in a one year starter who couldn't win the job, let's be honest here Urban Meyer wants to win and if he felt Hooker was the better player he would start him.

The comparison to the possible negatives to Hooker don't compare to Thomas. The whole tweener thing is ridiculous when the guy is putting up top 5 level combine results at DL...which include edge rushers. Yet the "tweener" crowd can't get over the kid's weight. If weight is the only question mark on a player you draft him pure and simple.

Let's see...

weight vs possible lack of passion/commitment to the sport, injury concerns, poor tackling from a position frequently the last line of defense, not great speed for an instinctive player, one year of play, short time playing football...hmm I guess when you type it out they're pretty much the same thing.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

So then we all agree that Malik Hooker isn't so much a stretch at 2 if shanny and lynch don't think quite as highly of Thomas as you do. It's a perfect storm, a rare FS prospect in a draft with question marks at every single pick (yes, including the tweener thomas.) Would hooker go top 5 in any other draft? Maybe not, but this year, it's fair game at the top 10-15 prospects. We could have 3 OT taken in the first this year, or 0. There might be 3 qb taken in the top 10, or the first one not coming off the board til 12. It's just an odd draft.

Hooker is new to the sport. They may have seen the talent, but decided to start the kid who's played safety longer. Hooker will no doubt need to continue to learn the position, and football in general as he enters the NFL, but we're gambling on his intangibles. Same way were gambling that Thomas intangibles will allow him to be successful adding weight and going against NFL online talent. I think both are sure bets. I just think interior linemen can be had more often than an all pro level talent at FS.

I'm simply taking the safer pick that's also a very important position for this scheme in Thomas...we can line him up all over that DL, getting pressure in the interior is how you beat guys like Brady, Wilson & Rogers. I also think highly of other FS like baker & Williams, who will both be there at 34 imo. I also think Ward is more than capable to be out FS.

We currently have one guy that's shown anything positive on our DL, yes it sucks going DL three yrs in a row but its a position teams continuously draft for and this FO shouldn't pass on a top prospect because our last GM overdrafted someone.