Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Regardless of a coaching change, not often do you see a team giving up on a first rounder that quickly. Justin Gilbert and Manziel come to mind but those two are special cases.

There's some decent tape on AA his rookie year when he graded pretty well according to PFF. And his skill set is arguably better as a 3T while Thomas is better suited on the outside in base.

They don't have to give up on him but taking a top tier prospect off your board because you want to give him a chance is stupid and could easily backfire.

Draft Thomas and don't think about it. Best case scenario we have 3 stud all pro type defensive linemen in a couple of years with Armstead, Buckner and Thomas. It's a problem i'm very fine having.

Originally posted by genus49:
They don't have to give up on him but taking a top tier prospect off your board because you want to give him a chance is stupid and could easily backfire.

Draft Thomas and don't think about it. Best case scenario we have 3 stud all pro type defensive linemen in a couple of years with Armstead, Buckner and Thomas. It's a problem i'm very fine having.

The problem is there is SO much edge/d-line talent in this draft that it's starting to feel like too much of a luxury. The quality slipping into the 2nd and even 3rd round is nuts. Thomas is good yes, but is he 30-60 draft picks better than TJ Watt? Tim Williams? Charles Harris?

Garrett is no doubt... not so sure about Thomas.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Regardless of a coaching change, not often do you see a team giving up on a first rounder that quickly. Justin Gilbert and Manziel come to mind but those two are special cases.

There's some decent tape on AA his rookie year when he graded pretty well according to PFF. And his skill set is arguably better as a 3T while Thomas is better suited on the outside in base.

They don't have to give up on him but taking a top tier prospect off your board because you want to give him a chance is stupid and could easily backfire.

Draft Thomas and don't think about it. Best case scenario we have 3 stud all pro type defensive linemen in a couple of years with Armstead, Buckner and Thomas. It's a problem i'm very fine having.

I'm simply refuting your point about AA. Like I stated I don't see Thomas overlapping with AA or Buckner and would have no problem drafting him.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

I don't think there's any question Thomas is the next best guy after Garrett. But what does this mean for AA and Buckner?

If Thomas is the guy, I think on base downs it'll be a 3 way type competition, Lynch, AA and Solomon for the two end positions, Lynch or Solomon at LEO, AA or Solomon at LDE.

Obvious passing downs can have all 4 (inc Buckner). You can never have too much talent on the D-Line.

Originally posted by Jasta:
The problem is there is SO much edge/d-line talent in this draft that it's starting to feel like too much of a luxury. The quality slipping into the 2nd and even 3rd round is nuts. Thomas is good yes, but is he 30-60 draft picks better than TJ Watt? Tim Williams? Charles Harris?

Garrett is no doubt... not so sure about Thomas.

First of all those are very different players you listed and yes all of them have a lot more questions about their game than Thomas. And pretty much all of them 30 picks is pushing it, certainly with Watt and Harris it will be pretty close. In fact we could select either one of them if they were still around at 34 to go along with Thomas and I wouldn't have any issues with it, especially Watt who I think can play OLB for us and come down in obvious pass rush situations. Tim Williams will drop because he's a dumbass.

You also have no idea who will be there at #34 or who will be there down the road. You know who is going to be there at #2. You play the "we can get so and so later for better value" and you end up with a handful of nothing. Take the sure thing, if we double dip in pass rushers nobody should have a problem with it. Just look at what made Denver so good.

Miller, Ware, Shane Ray, Barrett. They don't win that SB without that pass rush. The best QB in the game gets thrown off his game only when one thing happens and that's when he gets hit time and time again. It's what the Giants did to him and it's what the Broncos did to him.

I don't think the 5-2 changes anything. We're still looking for an Irvin and a Avril/ Beasley. They want the sam to have blitz potential. It doesn't surprise me some might see Thomas as too small for the 5. Outside of Bennett it's played by 300 pounders. That's the dilemma with the tweener it's always a struggle to see where he best fits.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I don't think the 5-2 changes anything. We're still looking for an Irvin and a Avril/ Beasley. They want the sam to have blitz potential. It doesn't surprise me some might see Thomas as too small for the 5. Outside of Bennett it's played by 300 pounders. That's the dilemma with the tweener it's always a struggle to see where he best fits.

Right, but Beasley/Avril are LEO's. We still need someone on the strong side edge either way. I don't see any problem with Thomas' ability to blitz or rush from the strong side, do you?

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Right, but Beasley/Avril are LEO's. We still need someone on the strong side edge either way. I don't see any problem with Thomas' ability to blitz or rush from the strong side, do you?

Beasley played sam LB this season for the falcons.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Right, but Beasley/Avril are LEO's. We still need someone on the strong side edge either way. I don't see any problem with Thomas' ability to blitz or rush from the strong side, do you?

Beasley was Atl's Sam, Brooks Reed was the leo. In base Sam plays alot of coverage but Leo and Sam will typically be the nickel pass rushers so they're still a pass rusher 1st. For example Beasley only dropped back in coverage on 18% of plays. It's more likely Thomas would be Leo over Sam because there's only a few zone coverages there. Someone like Bowser would be an okay Sam prospect. There's no Irvin or Beasley this year though.

I wonder how Kyle truly envisions his defense to look ultimately.

Does he intend to duplicate what they did in Atlanta with their personnel? If you watch Atlanta's defensive line, it's a lot of undersized players that can move. Their edge rushers are pretty light. Grady Jarrett is a shorter fat dude that can move. They ran a ton of stunts and slants across the line to maximize their athleticism. If that's what Kyle wants, he's starting off so far from that here.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Right, but Beasley/Avril are LEO's. We still need someone on the strong side edge either way. I don't see any problem with Thomas' ability to blitz or rush from the strong side, do you?

Beasley was Atl's Sam, Brooks Reed was the leo. In base Sam plays alot of coverage but Leo and Sam will typically be the nickel pass rushers so they're still a pass rusher 1st. For example Beasley only dropped back in coverage on 18% of plays. It's more likely Thomas would be Leo over Sam because there's only a few zone coverages there. Someone like Bowser would be an okay Sam prospect. There's no Irvin or Beasley this year though.

As Heroism mentioned he moved to SAM last year which I did not know. The reason he moved to SAM is because he couldn't hang against the run on a T but still primarily was a pass rusher as you brought up. We have guys now who can handle the run on the edge as a LEO plus there are LEO prospects out there that we can add. I just don't think having Thomas as our primary outside pass rusher is the right move.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Thomas is under 6'3" while AA and Buckner are 6'7". It's kind of a given that Thomas gets lower no?

Part of the reason why you don't want two 6'7" guys out there.

Thomas is better at creating leverage, a lot more athletic, much better motor and just an overall superior prospect than Armstead was.

Sure, but let's not pretend that Thomas is the perfect prospect on the inside. He's undersized for any interior DL position in base, which is why he is more athletic, has a better motor, creates better leverage, etc. Aaron Donald is undersized himself and he is about 20 lbs heavier than Thomas.

I like Thomas as a player but I think he belongs on the outside at least in base. At this point, if we get a great trade offer I'm moving down.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Thomas is under 6'3" while AA and Buckner are 6'7". It's kind of a given that Thomas gets lower no?

Part of the reason why you don't want two 6'7" guys out there.

Thomas is better at creating leverage, a lot more athletic, much better motor and just an overall superior prospect than Armstead was.

Sure, but let's not pretend that Thomas is the perfect prospect on the inside. He's undersized for any interior DL position in base, which is why he is more athletic, has a better motor, creates better leverage, etc. Aaron Donald is undersized himself and he is about 20 lbs heavier than Thomas.

I like Thomas as a player but I think he belongs on the outside at least in base. At this point, if we get a great trade offer I'm moving down.

Remember Bryant Young? Coming out if college he was only 3 pounds heavier.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Thomas is under 6'3" while AA and Buckner are 6'7". It's kind of a given that Thomas gets lower no?

Not really...his skill level today is better than both Buckner and AA, he's consistently jamming blockers and extending to locate the ball and release. You can almost call it mechanical because he does it almost every time and that's a good thing and he's only 21. Will get better at it as he gains experience and strength.

Never taken one single snap in the NFL and already better than both AA and Buckner? Oh the hyperbole!

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

As Heroism mentioned he moved to SAM last year which I did not know. The reason he moved to SAM is because he couldn't hang against the run on a T but still primarily was a pass rusher as you brought up. We have guys now who can handle the run on the edge as a LEO plus there are LEO prospects out there that we can add. I just don't think having Thomas as our primary outside pass rusher is the right move.

It's the coverage aspects that you seem to be missing on. Beasley is much lighter and more athletic than Thomas. 250, 4.53. Even for 20% of plays you don't want Thomas covering.